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AlphaZero (Computer) vs Stockfish (Computer)
AlphaZero - Stockfish (2017), London ENG, Dec-04
Queen's Indian Defense: Classical Variation. Polugayevsky Gambit (E17)  ·  1-0
ANALYSIS [x]

FEN COPIED

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 6 OF 6 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Apr-03-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  Big Pawn: <moron: Just put him on ignore and your site will improve 100%.>

He’s right. You need to hide from me, like the rest of th me weak men. Crawl under the blanket fort with <moron> and cuck together, and hide from <big pawn>.

Chessgames can be a scary place.

Apr-03-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  ChessHigherCat: <Big Pawn> Your fat contorted mouth in the photo betrays a long tradition of giving real men special treats under the blankets! Bon appetit, and enjoy la crème de la crème

<Smartmofovich> Thanks for the sentiment but it's really flattering to be criticized by Big Pustule, he's sort of a reverse weather vane. I always enjoy your posts, too.

Apr-03-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  Big Pawn: It's cute to see the cowards join forces to take a stand against the <BIG BULLY PAWN>!

On a more serious note, <chc> should forgive his mother for emasculating him. Then God will forgive him and he will finally become a real man.

Apr-03-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  saffuna: < It's cute to see the cowards join forces to take a stand against the <BIG BULLY PAWN>!>

How many of you have joined forces to take a stand against me on that other page?

Goose. Gander.

Apr-03-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  ChessHigherCat: I am now going to prove that paradoxically, the ignore button can be used for such a vapid non-entity.that there's nothing to ignore.
Apr-03-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  Big Pawn: < saffuna: < It's cute to see the cowards join forces to take a stand against the <BIG BULLY PAWN>!>

How many of you have joined forces to take a stand against me on that other page?

Goose. Gander.>

None.

But on this page, I have <CHC> shaking in his boots, looking to crawl under a blanket fort with <moron>, desperate to escape penetrating presence.

<CHC> needs to go to my profile, scroll down to the bottom and hit the <Intolerance button>, as a good liberal should.

For the record, I have no one on ignore and have not used the <INTOLERANCE> button, because I don't get angry when people disagree. I'm very tolerant.

Apr-03-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  pdxjjb: <ChessHigherCat> Back on the machine learning thing, I don't think the truth is quite as optimistic as the way you played it back. In practice, the machine won't just continue to improve, and in some cases it will get worse if you overtrain it (search the term "overfitting" if you would like to read more).

Also, time is usually not an issue. Unlike living things, these system usually don't continue to learn; rather, they have a training phase which is exclusively training, and then once put into use no further "training" or "learning" occurs. The compute cost of training is very high, while the cost use ("inference") is much lower. Bottom line, figuring out when to stop training is part of the art, and more isn't necessarily better.

Apr-03-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  ChessHigherCat: <pdxjib> I don't know any of the programming details but at least the results were pretty amazing. That said, I'm generally anything but optimistic when it comes to computers achieving anything beyond calculations.

In the early days of computing they predicted that they would soon become champion at checkers (which took over 25 years after the date of the quote I believe) and come up with a great translation program. The fact that machine translations are still so horrible despite the immense computing power shows that machines have no approach to examining the context to choose which of the many dictionary definitions is applicable to a specific word or phrase in context.

They can't even analyze the context in the surrounding sentences much less remember the relevant passages in previous chapters that would have to be analyzed to choose the correct meaning. And that's just the general meaning, it goes without saying that they lack the necessary sense of irony and humor needed to do a translation with the proper tone, not to mention an understanding of symbolism or register. I think the day that computers can do a good literary translation will be the day that they can think like humans, and I'm starting to agree with Steven Pinker that that day will never come.

Apr-04-18  WorstPlayerEver: It would probably continue learning if it were made by a decently developed species lol
Apr-04-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  ChessHigherCat: <WorstPlayerEver: It would probably continue learning if it were made by a decently developed species lol>

But humans are the only decently developed species! Outside of mankind, all the creatures have developed quite indecently and traipse around in public without any underwear!

Apr-04-18  FairyPromotion: <21. Bg5!!> is one of the greatest and the most aesthetic moves I've ever seen. The move is inexplicable to me, and I feel that defensive tries <21...hxg5> and <22...hxg5> need further analysis.

The slow conversion detracts a bit from the beauty of the game, but the position after <32.Qd5> seems like a resignable one for master level. Funny to think that resigning is one of the very few things that we humans are still better at than these engines.

All in all, this one was my favorite game from this match, and it should definitely be featured as GotD in the future.

GotD: <Zero Tolerance>

Apr-04-18  devere: <this one was my favorite game from this match>

It wasn't a match, since Google controlled both "contestants" and manipulated them to obtain the desired result.

Apr-04-18  WorstPlayerEver: I assume it all comes down to the following position, after:

21. Bg5 hxg5 22. Nxg5 Qg8 23. Qh4 Nc5 24. h6 Bd3 25. b4 Nba6 26. bxc5 Nxc5 27. Re7 Rae8 28. Nxf7+ Rxf7 29. hxg7+ Kxg7 30. Qg5+ Bg6 31. Qe5+ Kh7 32. Rxe8 Qg7 33. Qxg7+ Kxg7 34. Ra8 a5 35. Re1 Rf8


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Apr-04-18  hashtag: α0_FakeGame
Apr-04-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  morfishine: <hashtag: α0_FakeGame> Thank you for the FakeNews
Apr-04-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  diceman: <devere: <this one was my favorite game from this match>

It wasn't a match, since Google controlled both "contestants" and manipulated them to obtain the desired result.>

It may be true Google controlled both
"contestants." However, the unique style of Alpha-Zero is still noticeable.

Apr-16-18  talwnbe4: CHC you're flip flopping between minimizing the suffering as you say and so on.. btw, I recognize your line from the Bhagavad-Gita. You seem surprised by the comments here, as if you weren't already expecting them ? :-)
Apr-16-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  ChessHigherCat: I didn't intentionally quote the Bhagavad-Gita but I've read it a lot and no doubt have some flip-flotsam and jot-jetsam floating around my psyche, including some verses in Sanskrit. I've put the Sanskrit grammar aside in favor of Ancient Greek over the past couple months (If you wonder why I'm interested in "dead" languages, it's because I'd rather read interesting ancients than waste time trying to communicate with boring contemporaries).
Apr-16-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  Big Pawn: <chc: I've put the Sanskrit grammar aside in favor of Ancient Greek over the past couple months (If you wonder why I'm interested in "dead" languages, it's because I'd rather read interesting ancients than waste time trying to communicate with boring contemporaries).>

How cultured!

How well-traveled!

How sophisticated!

Oh my!

What a genius!

Apr-16-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  ChessHigherCat: Case in point.
Apr-18-18  talwnbe4: Well.. the Bible (here King James version) and the Bhagavad-Gita are pretty similar on this point, i.e.. Jude 1:19
" These be they that separate themselves, sensual, having not the spirit."
Apr-20-18  talwnbe4: ..of course language is somewhat useless unless one understands the words.

Take the word "sense" and even worse (better? )the english word "draw", "draw" has a large number of meanings and of course languages change over time, from spelling to morphology (inflection) to meaning, at any given moment - a word might have a number of meanings to any person, let alone many persons.

Apr-22-18  talwnbe4: CHC, as to computers achieving results, then this is perhaps more to your liking ? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjA...
May-22-18  bobbyperezchess: I don't like the move Stockfish played on its 11th move which is 11...Bf6?!, since it denies control of the weak square d6, which AlphaZero immediately conquers with 12.Nd6! . But still, Van Arkel played this positional error in his game against Roobol. Roobol played 12.Re1!? which is quite okay and still gives white the advantage, but not as strong as AlphaZero's 12.Nd6! .

The move played by Stockfish is what most chess players with positional knowledge and understanding will not commit. I prefer 11...d5, though the pawn will be regained quickly with 12.exd5 cxd5 13.Re1!? Re8 14.Nc3 e.g, 14...Nba6 15.Nxe7 Rxe7 16.Rxe7 Qxe7 17.Nxd5 and if 17...Qd8?, 18.Nf6+ Qxf6 (18...gxf6?! 19.Qg4 Kh8 20.Bxb7 ± and white wins the bishop pair while black, with two knights against white's two bishops and a bad kingside structure, obtained a nightmare position and irreparable damage) 19.Qf3! Qe7 (black cannot be as worthy as white after 19...Qxf3 20.Bxf3 ±) 20.Be3 Nb4!? (20...Nc5 21. Bxc5 ± looks good for black, as black has exchanged one of its knights to white's bishop, but could black afford the irreparable structural damage to its pawns?) 21.Rd1 ± with a nice advantage.

But we are humans, and we are not (and never) computers.

Jun-17-18  ThirdPawn: This probably can be considered as the Game of the Century. Not only did Stockfish not see 21.Bg5!!!, but also failed to see 20.Qg4! Of course, I saw it, but then I saw the f5 fork and stayed away. I guess that is what separates humans from machines now. In the end, Stockfish must be complimented on lasting another 100 moves as no GM would have lasted 20 more.
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