< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·
|Apr-02-18|| ||ChessHigherCat: Aha, it's blühender (blossoming) Baum, courtesy of <bavaria>|
|Apr-02-18|| ||thegoodanarchist: After surviving, Matthias must be the Bluebaum of Happiness.|
|Apr-02-18|| ||chancho: Bluebaum of happiness:
|Apr-02-18|| ||ChessHigherCat: <chancho> Sure you're not thinking of the blue bum of hoppiness?|
|Apr-02-18|| ||chancho: Haha... no!|
|Apr-02-18|| ||beenthere240: Bluebaum went into a very deep (almost an hour) think on move 15 (!!) and emerged with a clear-cut path for drawing the game. Carlsen could not have been happy -- every attempt to get complications or to exploit his time advantage turned to naught.|
|Apr-02-18|| ||chancho: This may not be a blue tree but this tree in Puerto Rico is very trippy.|
|Apr-02-18|| ||Annie K.: <keypusher: <Sticking in an e gives comfort to monolingual English speakers and makes Bluebaum's name seem very friendly <(unless you ask yourself why the tree is blue)>.>>|
This question would never worry monolingual English speakers, since they'd have no idea what Baum means anyway. ;)
Oh, and about the original question... it has to do with Google indexing issues of pages with special characters in the page title, and with general searchability difficulties for people who don't happen to have those special characters handy to type when they are looking for a player. :)
|Apr-02-18|| ||ChessHigherCat: <Annie K.> Nice to see you again, ethereal feline fluffball! Do you happen to have the name "Vitiugov" (витюгов) in your online pronunciation guide? Could you please give me the link? I think the second "i" is just a soft sign indicating that the "t" is palatalized, so it should be "veet yoog (like Yugoslavia) off", but my opinion has been challenged (don't be alarmed, I know it's outrageous, but everything will be okay). Also I don't know where the stress is, which is stressing me out.|
|Apr-02-18|| ||ChessHigherCat: But I don't have zero knowledge of Russian, I studied Russian, lived in Russia and have read a lot of Russian literature, it's just that names are unpredictable and there are practically no rules at all for stress.|
<SometimesGood>, what about it? Is this one of the times when you can decide to be good?
|Apr-02-18|| ||cro777: What is your name, Nikita?
|Apr-03-18|| ||ChessHigherCat: <cro777: What is your name, Nikita?>|
Thanks, that's what I thought: VEET you goff
|Apr-03-18|| ||whiteshark: It seems that <15.Rfe1> is a novelty to the following amateur game:|
[Event "Vlissingen HZ op 21st"]
[White "Goormachtigh, Johan"]
[Black "Veenstra, Wopke"]
1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 Bg7 4. e4 d6 5. Nf3 O-O 6. Be2 e5 7. Be3 exd4 8. Nxd4
Re8 9. f3 c6 10. Bf2 d5 11. exd5 cxd5 12. O-O Nc6 13. c5 a6 14. Qd2 Qa5 15.
Nxc6 bxc6 16. Bd4 Bd7 17. Rfd1 Nh5 18. Bxg7 Nxg7 19. Ne4 Qxd2 20. Nf6+ Kh8 21.
Rxd2 Re7 22. b4 Ne6 23. Rb1 Nf4 24. Nxd7 Nxe2+ 25. Kf2 Nc3 26. Rb3 Nb5 27. Nb6
Rae8 28. Rbb2 Kg7 29. a4 Nc7 1/2-1/2
|Apr-03-18|| ||Annie K.: <ChessHigherCat> heh... I don't post much, but I am always around. And I enjoy reading your posts, too. :) |
Why yes, we do have audio for Vitiugov: http://www.chessgames.com/audio/546... (if you want to check if somebody has audio, you can always just visit their player page and look for the pronunciation icon, btw).
I notice the two pronunciations are not quite identical, but I think this has to do with people's tendency to pronounce their own name in a way that fits in with the language they are speaking in; so Vitiugov's pronunciation is a bit "anglicized", while I requested my Russian stepfather (who made this recording) to pronounce the names with the authentic Russian accent.
Then again, it may have to do with regional dialects too. ;s
You're right that Russian can be unpredictable WRT stress placement, though the rule-of-thumb seems to be that the accent goes to the penultimate syllable. And actually, in this case, I have difficulty determining where the accent actually *is*, even after listening to both pronunciations several times. It seems to be everywhere? :D
|Apr-03-18|| ||cro777: <Annie K.> <Vitiugov> <I have difficulty determining where the accent actually *is*, even after listening to both pronunciations several times. It seems to be everywhere?>|
Another version (with the stress on the last syllable):
This pronunciation is most common in Russian sports media.
|Apr-03-18|| ||ChessHigherCat: Thanks <Annie> You're right, when Vitiugov said his name on the tape he articulated each syllable clearly and evenly, which of course ruins everything for determining the stress. According to your stepfather's recording, it's clearly on the second syllable: veet YOU gof (in kindergarten phonetics).|
Your stepfather's voice reminds me of the uncle in Eastern Promises (sorry I can't find a link that isn't dubbed in Russian, but you should see the movie if you haven't already).
That's true what you say about Anglicization. I know a professor of Russian literature who's American and speaks fluent Russian but he doesn't speak with the authentic accent to students because nobody would understand (which I appreciate when people read Chinese names, because the "authentic pronunciation" goes right over my head). Anyway, he has some lectures on youtube and some Russian youtubniks accused him of having a strong American accent, which isn't fair, because when he reads a passage of text in Russian there's no accent at all.
|Apr-03-18|| ||ChessHigherCat: <cro77> You're right, on your recording the guy says veet you GOFF. Ay, yay, yay...|
|Apr-03-18|| ||Ulhumbrus: 13 c5! does not give Black central pawn superiority as White's f3 pawn controls e4, but then what does f3 concede to Black? One answer is that White's f4 square seems vulnerable to occupation and this suggests the manaoeuvre ...Nf6-h5-f4.|
16 Ne6! gets ready with tempo to remove Black's king's bishop after which Black seems in serious trouble
18 a3?! spends a tempo on moving a pawn. 18 Rad1 gets the QR into the game and now White has a lead in development in addition to the bishop pair, and Black's d pawn is isolated. If White can make these assets count and other things are equal White has a great advantage despite Black's greater space. Black threatens however to remove the queens by ..d4 and White has to answer the threat or risk letting his advantage slip. The text hardly does so.
After 19...Nxd4 Black has removed both his isolated d pawn and White's bishop pair. The greater part of any White advantage has gone.
|Apr-03-18|| ||Annie K.: <cro777: <stress on the last syllable>>|
The plot thickens... OK, my latest theory is going to be that this pronunciation has to do with the dynamic "general rhythm" of sports broadcasting. ;s
<ChessHigherCat> My stepfather's pronunciation is in line with the "penultimate syllable" directive - but it may be worth noting that I'm actually hearing Vit-OO-gov rather than Vit-YOU-gov, and I think you explained it very well, when you said <the second "i" is just a soft sign indicating that the "t" is palatalized> - i.e., that 'i' is just a modifier to the 't', not an actual vowel. So the correct parsing may be Vit(i)-OO-gov. I hope we're all clear on everything nao! ;)
|Apr-03-18|| ||Annie K.: Oh, and this: <which I appreciate when people read Chinese names, because the "authentic pronunciation" goes right over my head>|
Yep, as I keep saying, the mind has trouble processing the completely unfamiliar and unexpected. :)
Which is why most immigrants learn to modify the way they say their names, at least to the extent that results in their new compatriots being able to return something similar to what they are told. Linguistic compromises just happen.
|Apr-03-18|| ||ChessHigherCat: <Annie K.: Which is why most immigrants learn to modify the way they say their names, at least to the extent that results in their new compatriots being able to return something similar to what they are told. Linguistic compromises just happen>|
It was a bit more systematic in the US, because whenever a clerk at Ellis island couldn't spell an immigrant's name, he just wrote down an approximation: e.g., Farstenwallenflutensnoot = Smith.
Russian stress is really horribly unpredictable, and it's even extremely common for the stress to shift from the masculine to the feminine in the simple past of a given verb. It doesn't really matter in order to understand the meaning, but it's very important for poetry. Unfortunately, Russians only include stress marks in books for children, because it's supposedly too obvious. Fortunately, some texts for foreigners have them, too.
Do you still have a linguistics/literature forum, maybe would could talk more there.
Thanks again for your help with Vitigoth.
|Apr-03-18|| ||Annie K.: Well, Israelis only include vowel marks in books for children and newspapers for new immigrants (not sure those still exist, mind you).|
Nrml dlts r jst sppsd t knw wht mst vwls shld b. ;p
Just click on my avatar, and you'll get to my user forum. :)
|Apr-04-18|| ||ChessHigherCat: <nn K.> lks nrml t m|
|Apr-04-18|| ||bill morris: It would be nice once in a while to have a comment about the chess game.|
|Apr-04-18|| ||WorstPlayerEver: <bill morris>
Most unlikely. During a life game one will get 'you are posting too much blabla' after a few comments.
Which -obviously- will not motivate any member to follow the game in their comments.
Well, there you are, but did you really want to know???
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