chessgames.com
Members · Prefs · Laboratory · Collections · Openings · Endgames · Sacrifices · History · Search Kibitzing · Kibitzer's Café · Chessforums · Tournament Index · Players · Kibitzing

(If you register a free account you won't see all these ads!)
Matthias Bluebaum vs Magnus Carlsen
GRENKE Chess Classic (2018), Karlsruhe GER, rd 3, Apr-02
King's Indian Defense: Orthodox Variation. Gligoric-Taimanov System (E92)  ·  1/2-1/2
ANALYSIS [x]

FEN COPIED

explore this opening
find similar games 1 more M Bluebaum/Carlsen game
PGN: download | view | print Help: general | java-troubleshooting

TIP: Some games have annotation. These are denoted in the game list with the icon.

PGN Viewer:  What is this?
For help with this chess viewer, please see the Olga Chess Viewer Quickstart Guide.
PREMIUM MEMBERS CAN REQUEST COMPUTER ANALYSIS [more info]

Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Apr-02-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  ChessHigherCat: Aha, it's blühender (blossoming) Baum, courtesy of <bavaria>
Apr-02-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  thegoodanarchist: After surviving, Matthias must be the Bluebaum of Happiness.
Apr-02-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  chancho: Bluebaum of happiness:

https://fr.cdn.v5.futura-sciences.c...

Apr-02-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  ChessHigherCat: <chancho> Sure you're not thinking of the blue bum of hoppiness?
Apr-02-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  chancho: Haha... no!
Apr-02-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  beenthere240: Bluebaum went into a very deep (almost an hour) think on move 15 (!!) and emerged with a clear-cut path for drawing the game. Carlsen could not have been happy -- every attempt to get complications or to exploit his time advantage turned to naught.
Apr-02-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  chancho: This may not be a blue tree but this tree in Puerto Rico is very trippy.

https://i.pinimg.com/236x/f1/e2/e6/...

Apr-02-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  Annie K.: <keypusher: <Sticking in an e gives comfort to monolingual English speakers and makes Bluebaum's name seem very friendly <(unless you ask yourself why the tree is blue)>.>>

This question would never worry monolingual English speakers, since they'd have no idea what Baum means anyway. ;)

Oh, and about the original question... it has to do with Google indexing issues of pages with special characters in the page title, and with general searchability difficulties for people who don't happen to have those special characters handy to type when they are looking for a player. :)

Apr-02-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  ChessHigherCat: <Annie K.> Nice to see you again, ethereal feline fluffball! Do you happen to have the name "Vitiugov" (витюгов) in your online pronunciation guide? Could you please give me the link? I think the second "i" is just a soft sign indicating that the "t" is palatalized, so it should be "veet yoog (like Yugoslavia) off", but my opinion has been challenged (don't be alarmed, I know it's outrageous, but everything will be okay). Also I don't know where the stress is, which is stressing me out.
Apr-02-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  ChessHigherCat: But I don't have zero knowledge of Russian, I studied Russian, lived in Russia and have read a lot of Russian literature, it's just that names are unpredictable and there are practically no rules at all for stress.

<SometimesGood>, what about it? Is this one of the times when you can decide to be good?

Apr-02-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  cro777: What is your name, Nikita?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5p...

Apr-03-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  ChessHigherCat: <cro777: What is your name, Nikita?>

Thanks, that's what I thought: VEET you goff

Apr-03-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  whiteshark: It seems that <15.Rfe1> is a novelty to the following amateur game:

[Event "Vlissingen HZ op 21st"]
[Site "Vlissingen"]
[Date "2017.08.10"]
[Round "7"]
[White "Goormachtigh, Johan"]
[Black "Veenstra, Wopke"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[ECO "E92"]
[WhiteElo "2156"]
[BlackElo "1974"]

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 Bg7 4. e4 d6 5. Nf3 O-O 6. Be2 e5 7. Be3 exd4 8. Nxd4 Re8 9. f3 c6 10. Bf2 d5 11. exd5 cxd5 12. O-O Nc6 13. c5 a6 14. Qd2 Qa5 15. Nxc6 bxc6 16. Bd4 Bd7 17. Rfd1 Nh5 18. Bxg7 Nxg7 19. Ne4 Qxd2 20. Nf6+ Kh8 21. Rxd2 Re7 22. b4 Ne6 23. Rb1 Nf4 24. Nxd7 Nxe2+ 25. Kf2 Nc3 26. Rb3 Nb5 27. Nb6 Rae8 28. Rbb2 Kg7 29. a4 Nc7 1/2-1/2

Apr-03-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  Annie K.: <ChessHigherCat> heh... I don't post much, but I am always around. And I enjoy reading your posts, too. :)

Why yes, we do have audio for Vitiugov: http://www.chessgames.com/audio/546... (if you want to check if somebody has audio, you can always just visit their player page and look for the pronunciation icon, btw).

I notice the two pronunciations are not quite identical, but I think this has to do with people's tendency to pronounce their own name in a way that fits in with the language they are speaking in; so Vitiugov's pronunciation is a bit "anglicized", while I requested my Russian stepfather (who made this recording) to pronounce the names with the authentic Russian accent.

Then again, it may have to do with regional dialects too. ;s

You're right that Russian can be unpredictable WRT stress placement, though the rule-of-thumb seems to be that the accent goes to the penultimate syllable. And actually, in this case, I have difficulty determining where the accent actually *is*, even after listening to both pronunciations several times. It seems to be everywhere? :D

Apr-03-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  cro777: <Annie K.> <Vitiugov> <I have difficulty determining where the accent actually *is*, even after listening to both pronunciations several times. It seems to be everywhere?>

Another version (with the stress on the last syllable):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okR...

(VitiuGOV, 0:33)

This pronunciation is most common in Russian sports media.

Apr-03-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  ChessHigherCat: Thanks <Annie> You're right, when Vitiugov said his name on the tape he articulated each syllable clearly and evenly, which of course ruins everything for determining the stress. According to your stepfather's recording, it's clearly on the second syllable: veet YOU gof (in kindergarten phonetics).

Your stepfather's voice reminds me of the uncle in Eastern Promises (sorry I can't find a link that isn't dubbed in Russian, but you should see the movie if you haven't already).

That's true what you say about Anglicization. I know a professor of Russian literature who's American and speaks fluent Russian but he doesn't speak with the authentic accent to students because nobody would understand (which I appreciate when people read Chinese names, because the "authentic pronunciation" goes right over my head). Anyway, he has some lectures on youtube and some Russian youtubniks accused him of having a strong American accent, which isn't fair, because when he reads a passage of text in Russian there's no accent at all.

Apr-03-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  ChessHigherCat: <cro77> You're right, on your recording the guy says veet you GOFF. Ay, yay, yay...
Apr-03-18  Ulhumbrus: 13 c5! does not give Black central pawn superiority as White's f3 pawn controls e4, but then what does f3 concede to Black? One answer is that White's f4 square seems vulnerable to occupation and this suggests the manaoeuvre ...Nf6-h5-f4.

16 Ne6! gets ready with tempo to remove Black's king's bishop after which Black seems in serious trouble

18 a3?! spends a tempo on moving a pawn. 18 Rad1 gets the QR into the game and now White has a lead in development in addition to the bishop pair, and Black's d pawn is isolated. If White can make these assets count and other things are equal White has a great advantage despite Black's greater space. Black threatens however to remove the queens by ..d4 and White has to answer the threat or risk letting his advantage slip. The text hardly does so.

After 19...Nxd4 Black has removed both his isolated d pawn and White's bishop pair. The greater part of any White advantage has gone.

Apr-03-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  Annie K.: <cro777: <stress on the last syllable>>

The plot thickens... OK, my latest theory is going to be that this pronunciation has to do with the dynamic "general rhythm" of sports broadcasting. ;s

<ChessHigherCat> My stepfather's pronunciation is in line with the "penultimate syllable" directive - but it may be worth noting that I'm actually hearing Vit-OO-gov rather than Vit-YOU-gov, and I think you explained it very well, when you said <the second "i" is just a soft sign indicating that the "t" is palatalized> - i.e., that 'i' is just a modifier to the 't', not an actual vowel. So the correct parsing may be Vit(i)-OO-gov. I hope we're all clear on everything nao! ;)

Apr-03-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  Annie K.: Oh, and this: <which I appreciate when people read Chinese names, because the "authentic pronunciation" goes right over my head>

Yep, as I keep saying, the mind has trouble processing the completely unfamiliar and unexpected. :)

Which is why most immigrants learn to modify the way they say their names, at least to the extent that results in their new compatriots being able to return something similar to what they are told. Linguistic compromises just happen.

Apr-03-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  ChessHigherCat: <Annie K.: Which is why most immigrants learn to modify the way they say their names, at least to the extent that results in their new compatriots being able to return something similar to what they are told. Linguistic compromises just happen>

It was a bit more systematic in the US, because whenever a clerk at Ellis island couldn't spell an immigrant's name, he just wrote down an approximation: e.g., Farstenwallenflutensnoot = Smith.

Russian stress is really horribly unpredictable, and it's even extremely common for the stress to shift from the masculine to the feminine in the simple past of a given verb. It doesn't really matter in order to understand the meaning, but it's very important for poetry. Unfortunately, Russians only include stress marks in books for children, because it's supposedly too obvious. Fortunately, some texts for foreigners have them, too.

Do you still have a linguistics/literature forum, maybe would could talk more there.

Thanks again for your help with Vitigoth.

Apr-03-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  Annie K.: Well, Israelis only include vowel marks in books for children and newspapers for new immigrants (not sure those still exist, mind you).

Nrml dlts r jst sppsd t knw wht mst vwls shld b. ;p

Just click on my avatar, and you'll get to my user forum. :)

Apr-04-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  ChessHigherCat: <nn K.> lks nrml t m
Apr-04-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  bill morris: It would be nice once in a while to have a comment about the chess game.
Apr-04-18  WorstPlayerEver: <bill morris>

Most unlikely. During a life game one will get 'you are posting too much blabla' after a few comments.

Which -obviously- will not motivate any member to follow the game in their comments.

Well, there you are, but did you really want to know???

search thread:   
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·  Later Kibitzing>
NOTE: You need to pick a username and password to post a reply. Getting your account takes less than a minute, totally anonymous, and 100% free--plus, it entitles you to features otherwise unavailable. Pick your username now and join the chessgames community!
If you already have an account, you should login now.
Please observe our posting guidelines:
  1. No obscene, racist, sexist, or profane language.
  2. No spamming, advertising, or duplicating posts.
  3. No personal attacks against other members.
  4. Nothing in violation of United States law.
  5. No posting personal information of members.
Blow the Whistle See something that violates our rules? Blow the whistle and inform an administrator.


NOTE: Keep all discussion on the topic of this page. This forum is for this specific game and nothing else. If you want to discuss chess in general, or this site, you might try the Kibitzer's Café.
Messages posted by Chessgames members do not necessarily represent the views of Chessgames.com, its employees, or sponsors.
Spot an error? Please submit a correction slip and help us eliminate database mistakes!
This game is type: CLASSICAL (Disagree? Please submit a correction slip.)

Featured in the Following Game Collections [what is this?]
48b_Q+N endgames
by whiteshark
Classical w/ ...c6/...d5
from 98_KID_Maroczy-Bind-Structure P(c4/e4) vs P(c6/d by whiteshark


home | about | login | logout | F.A.Q. | your profile | preferences | Premium Membership | Kibitzer's Café | Biographer's Bistro | new kibitzing | chessforums | Tournament Index | Player Directory | Notable Games | World Chess Championships | Opening Explorer | Guess the Move | Game Collections | ChessBookie Game | Chessgames Challenge | Store | privacy notice | contact us
Copyright 2001-2018, Chessgames Services LLC