< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·
|Mar-20-06|| ||notyetagm: The correct way to play the KIA versus the French:
[White "Victor Ciocaltea"]
[Black "Julius Kozma"]
1.e4 e6 2.d3 d5 3.Nd2 c5 4.Ngf3 Nc6 5.g3 Nf6 6.Bg2 Be7 7.O-O O-O 8.Re1 Qc7 9.e5 Nd7 10.Qe2 b5 11.Nf1 a5 12.h4 b4 13.Bf4 Ba6 14.Ne3 Ra7 15.h5 Rc8 16.h6 g6 17.Nxd5 exd5 18.e6 Qd8 19.exf7+ Kh8 20.Ne5 Nf6 21.Nxc6 Rxc6 22.Qe5 Rd6 23.Bxd5 Bb5 24.Bg5 Bc6 25.Bxc6 1-0
click for larger view
Note the presence of two White killer pawns, the h6- and f7-pawns. Kasparov said that pawns attacking the enemy king count as pieces and he sure looks right in this position.
|Jul-11-06|| ||notyetagm: Could some KIA specialist please point out a model game in the <Reversed Grunfeld> that arises after the moves|
1 f3 d5 2 g3 c5 3 g2 c6 4 d4!?
GM John Emms says in his excellent Starting Out: KIA that some Black players do not play this move order -precisely- to avoid this <Reversed Grunfeld> but then he gives no examples of why Black does not want to face this line.
|Jul-11-06|| ||who: You can ask Keene. Keene vs Nunn, 1970|
|Oct-09-06|| ||Loisp: a way to bear rybka 2.1c 32bit with KIA . on move 25 it understands the innevitable checkmate and starts giving up pieces. white is a friend of mine (1850 elo)who is beating most engines with this trick if they play 2...e6.played in 5'+1'' blitz under shredder classic 2 gui on celeron D 2.8GHz under w2k sp4|
D - RYBKA 2.1C [A08]
1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.d3 Nc6 4.g3 d5 5.Nbd2 Nf6 6.Bg2 Be7 7.0-0 0-0 8.Re1 b5 9.e5 Nd7 10.Nf1 a5 11.h4 b4 12.N1h2 Qc7 13.Bf4 a4 14.Qe2 a3 15.b3 Ba6 16.Ng5 Nd4 17.Qh5 h6 18.Ng4 hxg5 19.hxg5 g6 20.Qh3 Rfd8 21.Nf6+ Nxf6 22.gxf6 Bf8 23.Kh2 Bb5 24.Rh1 Nf5 25.Kg1 Bh6 26.Bxh6 Nxg3 27.fxg3 Qxe5 28.Bg7 Qh5 29.Qxh5 gxh5 30.Rxh5 Bxd3 31.Rh8# 1-0
|Feb-27-07|| ||hicetnunc: Hello ! I have some nomenclature problems with ECO here : can someone explain how to make the split between A08 and C00 games ?|
I understand that B40 is when white plays d3 and black plays c5 without d5
|Feb-27-07|| ||Eric Schiller: ECO is a poorly designed mess. Transpositions are a major problem, but in general ECO is obsessed with what used to be main line openings and there is no flexibility, so the system can't be repaired. Use position searches instead of ECO.|
|Mar-10-07|| ||Armakov: I am presently developing a repertoire with the KIA using Fritz 10. 1.Nf3 is the best first move, because it creates an air of mystique in the opening, surprising your opponent, as they are not sure what you are up to. However, my repertoire follows the same opening line for approx. 95% of whatever Black does. The move order is: 1.Nf3, 2.g3, 3.Bg2, 4.0-0, 5.d3, 6.Nbd2, 7.e4. Ironically, Fritz gives 7.c4 a slight edge over 7.e4. in analysis. But I have learned that 7.e4 leads to more tactical advantages. The KIA can be quite forgiving if you make a 'not so good move', or even drop a piece. You can often recover or hold your ground because the postions that arise are solid and flexible. This opening is alot of fun to play. Strange that it is not played more often at GM level, as it is full of tricks and traps.|
|Mar-10-07|| ||elLocoEvans: The KIA is just great, and many black players understimate it just to find later the counterstrike it gives. Maybe fritz takes into consideration his sintetic 'positional' understanding when giving 7.c4 a slight edge over 7.e4, mantaining the long diagonal open for his 'indian' bishop.|
|Jun-11-07|| ||ongyj: I hope it's not 2 late for me to indulge in the KIA! But just a short query on the symmetrical nature should Black keep trying to mirror- it seems that 1.Nf3 2.g3 3.Bg2 4.0-0 Black looks okay to mirror, at least until that point. Anyone knows of a few tricks to prevent the eternal mirror by Black? Thanks in advance.|
|Jun-11-07|| ||MaxxLange: there aren't any|
|Jun-11-07|| ||ganstaman: Yes, there is one technique that I know of: 1. Nf3 Nf6 2. g3 g6 3. Bg2 Bg7 4. 0-0 0-0 and now either 5. e4 (black probably plays 5...Nxe4 and not 5. e5) or the more forceful 5. d4 d5 6. Qd3 Qd6 7. Qxg6.|
|Jun-14-07|| ||ongyj: Hmm... Anyway, in the pictoral position after 1.Nf3 d5 2.g3 c5 3.Bg2 what's White's plan if Black tries something like 3...f6, probably with an intended 4...e5? Thanks in advance for helpin a newbie in this line. ^Ô^|
|Jun-14-07|| ||ganstaman: http://www.chessgames.com/perl/ches...|
My first instinct would be to play 4. d4 and pray the hypermodernists got it right after 4...cxd4 5. Nxd4 e5, which looks to me like some sort of reversed and half-mirror-imaged Grunfeld.
However, 4. c4 attempts to transpose into a reverse Benoni with the move ...f6 (or a Benoni with f3 when not in reverse). I like the way this looks, but the Benoni doesn't look good to everyone.
|Jun-15-07|| ||MaxxLange: <what's White's plan if Black tries something like 3...f6, probably with an intended 4...e5? >|
playing the Samisch reversed against your KID reversed? I'd probably just let him.
|Jul-07-07|| ||ongyj: I don't mean to intentionally flood this page with the following long sequences of postings, but I really wish to check how well this setup that I lately came across actually work. It's also somewhat relevant to the King's Indian Attack, since my 1st 4 moves are 1.Nf3 2.g3 3.Bg2 and 4.0-0.|
As some background information, while my love for chess had been "on and off", my interest for chess openings had never really diminished. While I'm not a strong player, it'd always been my wish to come up with a set of guideance for newbies of the game to even "play a real game" with their more experienced and/or stronger counterparts, ie, to survive in openings long enough to get into a midgame and not just lose the warfare before it even gets started.
But the opening guidelines such as "occupy the centre squares", "develop your pieces" and "keep your king safe" are, in my honest opinion, almost akin to 'lying' to a newbie. Just tell me how newbies can know the long lines of the Sicilian, the Queen's gambit and every well-established opening systems in existence, when they actually encounter one? There are many probable situations in which you simply have to get one of the few correct moves or else you're doomed. And sometimes these solution moves are precisely not the natural moves that newbies can see.
Hence the guide that I seek verification and criticisms are meant to serve these purposes for a newbie to the game. To avoid memorising lots of lines which may be too deep for newbies, to avoid getting into positions with (too many) forced moves to make, and most importantly, to survive long enough in the opening stages so that the newbie can at least survive to enjoy a midgame. [Of course, in any form of competition, the better player is expected to win. But, at least, let the newbie get to enjoy a middle game, rather than ending the game in the opening stages!] It would be a bonus if White(the newbie playe) has an advantage, but it's not the most important point of this setup. It is to get into at least, an even position. So even if White stands inferior, let the deficit be kept to a minimum.
With these ideas in mind, I seek to come up with a guide for the newbies in the following manner.
|Jul-07-07|| ||ongyj: So what should the very White 1st move be? We know that from our established openings database up to today that the 4 recommended ones would be 1.c4, 1.d4, 1.e4 and 1.Nf3. Again, by 'conventional guidelines', newbies would almost definitely choose 1.e4, or sometimes, 1.d4. But I would almost only recommend 1.Nf3 because White chooses not to 'make a commitment'. By the idea of making commitment, any pawn that moves up 2 steps would invite a form of 'engagement' with the opponent. Hence 1.Nf3 would avoid an early 'direct conflict' Another reason to discourage newbies from playing 1.c4, 1.d4 or 1.e4 is that pawn moves are irreversible, and weaknesses are permanent. Hence White should only make 1 step up pawn moves to achieve it's intended purpose. |
So what happens after 1.Nf3 ? How to justify 'what it goes into' from here? Now, the "standard guidelines" somehow fit into the picture. In order to make a game last longer, White should now consider the safety of the King as top priority. A good mean of safety is to castle as early as possible, and 0-0 is easier to do than 0-0-0, and the fastest a player can castle in 4 moves. Okay, now, I admit I can't 'really' explain why based on these ideas 1.Nf3 2.g3 3.Bg2 4.0-0 is better than 1.Nf3 2.e3 3.Be2 4.0-0. One possibility is that 2.e3 kills off one of the possibilities of the c1 Bishop's diagonals.
And after these 4 King's Indian trademark move, it'll depend on the situation. Before going into some concrete lines, the key setup I'll recommend includes 5.d3 (to prevent Black from doing ...e4 kicking the f3 Natural Knight), 6.Nbd2(same purpose), 7.c3orc4 (7.c3 if Opponent has Knight on c6. Otherwise c4 gains more space and initiates a form of engagement, assuming that Black has occupired d5 already.) allowing 8.Qc2 that also guards the e4 square and begins to make space to mobilise the backrank rooks. And if White cannot hold e4 in time, it may have to consider Ne1 to use the g2 Bishop to hold the square.
The idea of White is simple. To survive for as long as possible in the opening, (trying to not yield too many vulnerable weaknesses) and maybe, initiate an attack when it finds an opportunity.
Of course, you may ask. What if Black mirrors? (This is also a question I asked about KIA but there's nothing really doable about it.) Well, if White believes that it has the initiative, then mirroring would always be good for white. At least, for the newbie White doesn't lose:)
Okay, sorry to make "empty ideas" without showing any real lines. The following would be some engineered line from the freebie engine Fritz 5.32 and from my weak brain engine ^Ô^
|Jul-07-07|| ||ongyj: 1.Nf3 Nf6 2.g3 g6 3.Bg2 Bg7 4.0-0 0-0 5.d3 d5 6.Nbd2 Nc6 7.c3 e5 8.Qc2 =|
1.Nf3 Nf6 2.g3 d5 3.Bg2 c6 4.0-0 Bg4 5.b3*(From database. Rather than guarding the e4 square, 6.Bg2 allows guarding on the e5 square.) And the book line I follow is as continues. 5...Nbd7 6.Bb2 e6 7.d3 Bd6 8.Nbd2 0-0 9.c4 Qe7 10.Qc2 e5 11.h3...Free(Weak) engine Fritz 5.32 'thinks' that White is slightly better.
As this line isn't actually 'original', another one that I tried was 5.d3 Nbd7 6.Nbd2 e5 7.Ne1, with prospects of c4, Nc2.
There are not many alternative lines I tried that are interesting enough to be mentioned. But how does anyone think? Is this kind of setup from the KIA usable for newbies?
Thanks in advance for all comments and criticisms ^Ô^
|Jul-07-07|| ||MaxxLange: <ongvj> Sure, it's usable. You admit yourself that you give Black an equal game in the opening, though. You can fight it out from there, win some, lose some, and probably learn a lot of chess. I used to play this myself, usually via the French or Sicilian. I couldn't shake the feeling that I was "giving up my White" in tournaments, though - I started playing main lines to put more pressure on Black and to try to come out of the opening with at least a "normal" White edge.|
If you want to stick with your Nf3,g3 Bg2,0-0 scheme - you should also try the Reti with c4, or lines with a later d4 - don't just limit yourself to the KIA plan of d3, Nbd2, etc. You can make a repertoire around all this that takes you to the 2000 to 2200 level, but you will get more draws the higher you go.
|Jun-25-08|| ||jackpawn: I've recently been playing a version of the KIA with a lot of success. I like it because I'm too lazy to study openings. I play it differently however in that I seldom play d3. Generally I play c4 or b3, depending on black's setup.|
|Aug-01-08|| ||Silverstrike: An interesting loss of mine in the KIA.
Julius Schwartz (1679) v Donald Heron (1798)
March the 29th 2008
1.e4 e6 2.d3 d5 3.Nd2 c5 4.Ngf3 Nc6 5.g3 Bd6 6.Bg2 Nge7 7.0-0 0-0 8.Re1 Qc7 9.Nf1 Bd7 10.c3 Rad8 11.Nh4 d4 12.f4 f6 13.c4 Rb8 14.Qd2 a6 15.b3 b5 16.h3 bxc4 17.dxc4 a5 18.Nf3 a4 19.g4 axb3 20.g5 b2 21.Bxb2 Bxf4 22.Qf2 fxg5 23.Bc1 e5 24.Bxf4 Rxf4 25.Ng3 g4 26.hxg4 Bxg4 27.Ne2 Rff8 28.Qg3 Bxf3 29.Bxf3 Ng6 30.Bg4 Qe7 31.Rf1 Nb4 32.Qh3 Nc2 33.Rab1 Rxb1 34.Rxb1 Ne3 35.Ng3 Nf4 36.Resigns
|Jan-22-09|| ||kellmano: I don't know why the KIA is not played more often, particularly at club level. It guarantees you will get out the opening alive (always priority number one) and gives you quite a clear plan (the same plan that so many people play with black in the KID).|
|Jan-22-09|| ||zev22407: Evgeni Vasiukov vs Wolfgang Uhlmann a model game|
|Jan-22-09|| ||hrvyklly: <kellmano: Any ideas?> I remember reading that someone (respected chess teacher, Aagaard or somebody like that) said he despaired when he saw club players venturing the KIA - that players of our standard should be aiming for open games after 1.e4. But I do know what you mean, I play the KID, but a chess teacher would probably tell me to concentrate on the Queen's Gambit...|
|Jan-22-09|| ||jinchausti: I play KIA. As Fischer said, very good against lines in which black plays e6. Black bishop on white squares doesn't defend on the king side. French, some Sicilians...
Strategically, as white, you must remove black bishop on black squares to develop a good attack on tyhe king side. It can be very tricky tactically, and, of couse, you get the black out of the book from move 2 on. I play e4, d3, and faces change in front on me, believe me...
Very good pack from Don Maddox, if you want to learn about KIA. If you play, as black, KID, you get a reverse KID in fact, depends on black moves...|
|Jun-16-09|| ||WhiteRook48: the KIA is it|
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