| Aug-16-03 |
| bunti: does anyone here play this opening and what kind of success do they have with it. is it that drawish among non grandmasters? |
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Aug-16-03
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| Sneaky: I find myself playing a variation of this with the Black pieces, not because I want to, but when White is unambitious you can't stop it. It usually develops like this: 1.e4 c5 2.c4 |
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| Feb-03-04 |
| blunder maker: 1. c4 c5 2. Nc3 Nc6 3. g3 Nf6 4. Bg2 e6 5. e3 Ne4!?
anyone here move 5. ... Ne4 ?i have beat my strong opponent by using this move! |
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| Feb-13-04 |
| marcus13: Bunti. I dont think at my strengh there is really drawish opening. Drawish opening are only good for titled player. I am sure i can win (and also lose) game on this variation. |
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| Feb-17-04 |
| Aliasad: blunder maker, 5... Ne4 seems like a straightforward blunder to me, what am I missing?
Hey Bunti, from my (very little) experience of this opening, I would say that the symmetrical english is a solid line for black and leads to games that are quite tactically interesting with a lot of jockeying for position. IMO it usually leads to closed positions but watch out for an early d4 or a later central pawn attack by white to open things up. |
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| Feb-24-04 |
| blunder maker: Aliasad,ya,u are right,that's why my name is blunder maker,=) |
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| Mar-25-04 |
| PaulKeres: IMHO, perhaps the best reply for Black is 1...c5, but I think 1. c4 is a tricky opening to tackle, and a strong opening by a white player who knows what he's doing. |
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| Jun-21-04 |
| Klashnikov168: I play a cure-all variation as black. 1.c4 c5 2.Nc3 Nf6 3.g3 d5 4.cxd5 nxd5 5.Bg2 this is a common line but the rest is secret. Only people who play white in the sicilian would know what I'm talking about but if anyone wants to know the line I'll post the rest as black. |
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| Jun-21-04 |
| Helloween: <Klashnikov168> That is a common "internetish" line, but not really correct as far as move orders go. 2.Nf3 is almost universal in the Symmetrical English, and now if Black plays in a similar fashion as he does in the line you give, 2...Nf6 3.Nc3 d5 4.cxd5 Nxd5 5.d4! e6 and now both 6.e3 and 6.e4 keep an advantage for White. |
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| Jun-22-04 |
| Klashnikov168: I better not give the line. I don't think my coach would like that. But I will tell you its a maroczy bind. |
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| Jun-22-04 |
| Dick Brain: I've played it many times over about 20+ years (always Black). As a matter of fact I was inspired to play the symmetrical english from Ulf Andersson's games which makes sense from the above table. |
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| Jun-29-04 |
| get Reti: I like to play 1. Nf3 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Nc3 c5 4.g3 b6 5. Bg2 Bb7 6. O-O Be7 7. d4 cxd4 8. Qxd4 as white. This usually turns into a hedgehog. This position can be reached without playing these moves in this exact order, usually it is. |
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| Jul-08-04 |
| Klashnikov168: Ok here is the line. 1.c4 c5 2.Nc3 Nf6 3.g3 d5 4.cxd5 nxd5 5.Bg2 Nb4(The secret) and blacks plan is to play Nc6, e5, Be6, f6, Be7 and white has to push d3 or e3. If d3 the e2 is a problem and if e3 then d2 is a problem in the endgame as well. If you play it right white has no threats. Like qa4 or a3 nb6 b4 so this is very solid. |
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| Aug-12-04 |
| tomh72000: Anymore "secrets" for us? ;) |
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Aug-12-05
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| who: <Klashnikov168> What do you mean about Nb6. That's an illegal move. |
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| Aug-12-05 |
| sitzkrieg: Queen!? |
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| Dec-22-07 |
| angelwings4i: FISH!! "Fischer Ending" |
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| Feb-13-08 |
| Method B: 1.Nf3 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.g3 c5 4.Nc3 b6 5.Bg2 Bb7 6.O-O a6 7.Re1 Be7 8.e4 d6 9.d4 cxd4 10.Nxd4 Qc7 11.Be3
click for larger viewwhat is white's answer to 11...Qxc4? 12.Qa4+ is the move? I suppose it is blunder (queen trap maybe) because no games in the database with this move but I can not see the solution. |
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| Feb-13-08 |
| nescio: <Method B> There is no particular solution with forced moves. It's just that after 11...Qxc4 12.Rc1 the black queen is in a very uncomfortable spot. If it stays on the c-file, then 13.Nd5 and Nc7+ will be decisive. If it goes out still further (12...Qb4), then 13.Nb3 and something has to be done about 14.a3, forcing it back to the c-file. But after for example 11...Qxc4 12.Rc1 Qb4 13.Nb3 d5 14.ezd5 exd5 I would consider the position absolutely hopeless, with threats to d5 and c7 (by Bf4 also) and the position of the black king in the centre. But White has so many attractive possibilities that he might get an attack of "embarras du choix". :) |
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| Feb-13-08 |
| Method B: <nescio> okay. thanks a lot. it was very helpful. |
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| Mar-15-09 |
| WhiteRook48: I thought the English always continued 1...e5 |
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| Apr-17-09 |
| Bob726: Typically in the hedgehog type formations, why does black most times play his rooks to c8 and e8 instead of c8 and d8? Doesn't the rook on d8 protect the pawn on d6 and keep on the e8 square for the knight to defend d6. What is the rook doing on e8? |
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Apr-17-09
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| blacksburg: <Bob> a common manouvre in the hedgehog is Be7-d8-c7 after Qc7-b8, so black would like to have d8 open for regroupings. also, the queen's rook doesn't always go to c8, it can go to d8 as well. in general, black isn't so much concerned about defending the d6 pawn, and is more concerned about positioning his pieces to benefit from from a central break. black should not be trying to just hold the d6 pawn for a long time, he should be trying for a central break. the e8 rook can become very active after the d5 break. here are a couple of games illustrating the central breaks, and the resulting activity of the black pieces. Karpov vs Ulf Andersson, 1975
K Grigorian vs G Agzamov, 1981
in general, black's manouevering in the hedgehog tends to be rather subtle and difficult to understand, IMHO. |
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| Apr-17-09 |
| SniperOnG7: <Bob726> In some hedgehog positions, you do indeed see the rook on d8 too. This is in preparation for an eventual ...d6-d5 (one of black's two liberating breaks; the other being ...b6-b5). However, more often than not - especially in the English Hedgehog - the d5 break is difficult to achieve. In this case, a rook on d8 is rather useless. Before continuing, it is useful to know that white's most common plan is a kingside attack of one sort or another. This may take the form of f2-f4-f5 and/or f2-f4, g2-g4-g5 These plans are rather dangerous. Once the pawn reaches f5, black is often forced to let white exchange on e6 (or play ...e6-e5 which results in a backward exposed d-pawn down the semi-open file). After the exchange (fxe6 fxe6), black is left with a backward, weak Pe6 that can be easily targetted via Bg2-h3 or Nd4. It then becomes clear that the rook on e8 is very beneficial as a prophylactic move: a dropback of Be7 to f8 allows black to protect Pe6, and thus neutralizing some of the poison in white's plan. Hope that helps ^^ |
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| Apr-17-09 |
| SniperOnG7: <blacksburg> Haha you bet me to it. Good thing our posts contain different aspects about the position. |
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