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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 4 OF 4 ·
Later Kibitzing > |
Oct-01-06
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| jahhaj: <ongyj> Well you can research games with the opening explorer, here's a selection http://www.chessgames.com/perl/ches... but I hope you don't mind me posting a few of my own games. These are all blitz games so don't look for any great depth, but hopefully they illustrate the possibilites White has. [Event "Rated game, 10m + 2s"]
[Site "Main Playing Hall"]
[Date "2006.04.01"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Jahhaj"]
[Black "saketh123"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "A52"]
[WhiteElo "1857"]
[BlackElo "1585"]
[Annotator "Harrison,John"]
[PlyCount "45"]
[EventDate "2006.09.30"]
[TimeControl "600+2"]
1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e5 3. dxe5 Ng4 4. Bf4 Nc6 5. Nf3 Bb4+ 6. Nbd2 Qe7
7. e3 Ngxe5 8. Nxe5 Nxe5 9. Be2 Bd6 10. Ne4 Bb4+ 11. Nd2 Bd6 12. O-O Ng6
13. Bxd6 Qxd6 14. Qc2 Qf6 15. Rfd1 d6 16. Bf3 Ne5 17. Be4 Ng4 18. Nf3
Ne5 19. c5 Nxf3+ 20. Bxf3 dxc5 21. Qxc5 Qe7 22. Bc6+ Kf8 23. Rd8# 1-0 [Event "Rated game, 10m + 2s"]
[Site "Main Playing Hall"]
[Date "2006.05.01"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Jahhaj"]
[Black "Saketh_chess_kak"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "A52"]
[WhiteElo "1864"]
[BlackElo "1720"]
[Annotator "Harrison,John"]
[PlyCount "71"]
[EventDate "2006.09.30"]
[TimeControl "600+2"]
1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e5 3. dxe5 Ng4 4. Bf4 Nc6 5. Nf3 Bb4+ 6. Nbd2 Qe7 7. e3
Ngxe5 8. Nxe5 Nxe5 9. Be2 d6 10. O-O Ng6 11. Bg3 Bxd2 12. Qxd2 b6 13. Bf3
Rb8 14. b4 Bb7 15. Bxb7 Rxb7 16. Qd5 Rb8 17. c5 bxc5 18. bxc5 dxc5 19. Rfc1
O-O 20. Qxc5 Qf6 21. Qxc7 Rbc8 22. Qxa7 Rxc1+ 23. Rxc1 Qb2 24. Rf1 h6 25. a4
Rc8 26. a5 Rc1 27. Qa6 Rxf1+ 28. Qxf1 Qa3 29. a6 Ne7 30. h3 Nc6 31. Qb5
Qc1+ 32. Kh2 Qc2 33. Qb7 Qc5 34. Qc8+ Kh7 35. a7 Nxa7 36. Qxc5 1-0 [Event "Rated game, 10m + 2s"]
[Site "Main Playing Hall"]
[Date "2006.09.03"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Jahhaj"]
[Black "Adamow"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "A52"]
[WhiteElo "1926"]
[BlackElo "1798"]
[Annotator "Harrison,John"]
[PlyCount "51"]
[EventDate "2006.09.30"]
[TimeControl "600+2"]
1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e5 3. dxe5 Ng4 4. Bf4 Nc6 5. Nf3 Bb4+ 6. Nbd2 Qe7 7. e3
Ngxe5 8. Nxe5 Nxe5 9. Be2 O-O 10. O-O Bxd2 11. Qxd2 d6 12. Rfd1 b6 13. b4
a5 14. c5 dxc5 15. bxc5 Bf5 16. cxb6 cxb6 17. Qd4 Nd7 18. Bd6 Qg5 19. Bxf8
Nxf8 20. Qxb6 h5 21. Qc7 h4 22. Qf4 Qg6 23. Qxh4 Ne6 24. Bf3 Rc8 25. e4
Nd4 26. Rxd4 1-0
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| Oct-13-06 |
| NateDawg: <jahhaj> I don't see how you can say White gets a considerable advantage in the Budapest Gambit. In the line you site, which is probably the best for White, the position is very even. In fact, Crafty 19.19 rates the position after 1.d4  f6 2.c4 e5 3.dxe5 g4 4. f4 c6 5.f3 b4+ 6.bd2  e7 7.e3 gxe5 8.xe5 xe5 9.e2 O-O 10.0-0 as = (0.06), while Fritz 9 gives the position = (0.24).
click for larger viewYou say that White's advantage lies in his two bishops, but both sides still have the bishop pair. And while Black often trades his b4 bishop for White's knight, he is by no means obligated to do so. In fact, sometimes the knight is more valuable than a bishop. For example, Black often puts pawns on d6 and b6. In that case, a White knight on d4 would be very powerful. Also, the Black knight on e5 is at least as good as White's bishops. So, the bishop pair (which both sides currently have) may not be an advantage after all. You also say White has an advantage due to his possibility of advancing his queenside pawns. However, Black too can advance his queenside pawns, and has a serious option in ...a5. Finally, let's go over the games that you posted. In the first one, 9...d6 is a poor move, putting the bishop on an inferior square and preventing ...d6. In the second game, 10...g6 and 12...b6 are inaccuracies, and after move 14, White has a definite advantage, which Fritz gives as  (0.84). Finally, in the last game, Black waits too long to play ...a5 and has already weakened his queenside. |
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| Oct-13-06 |
| NateDawg: <jahhaj> A good line for Black is 1.d4 f6 2.c4 e5 3.dxe5 g4 4.f4 c6 5.f3 b4+ 6.bd2 e7 7.e3 gxe5 8.xe5 xe5 9.e2 O-O 10.0-0 a5!? 11.a3 xd2 12.xd2 d6 13. ac1 b6. I am curious as to how you would say White has an advantage in this position.
click for larger viewSo, while you are right that, for the prepared player, there is not much "to be afraid of" in the Budapest Gambit, it is still a sound opening which gives good chances for both sides. |
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| Oct-16-06 |
| ongyj: <NateDawg> In fact I haven't came across this line before:( Well, I suppose in that position White can try to make some disturbance with either b4 or Qd5 and try to get an open a file or something. But nothing concrete, just some abstract ideas in my mind:) |
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Oct-18-06
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| jahhaj: <NateDawg> I think you misread my post, comfortable edge was what I said, not considerable advantage. That the main thing that strikes me about this line. White's game is comfortable, he has reasonable winning chances, a clear plan, and no losing chances I can see. I wouldn't look to a computer evaluation to judge an opening. I score very heavily against the Budapest, that's what I base my evaluation on. I know an early 10...a5 is a current favourite for Black. If that line holds up then White can switch to the older 7.a3 which is also good. In your position the usual queen side advance is called for I think, 14.b4. Looks OK to me. |
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Oct-18-06
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| jahhaj: <NateDawg> I really don't see the Ne5 as powerful. Inn fact I think it's one of Black's problems. If White gets a pawn to c5 (not hard to do) then Black sometimes cannot take dxc5 because the d6 pawn is needed to defend the knight. This can mean the d6 pawn is weak after White plays cxd6. Black can avoid this by playing Ng6 but that puts the knight rather out of play. I don't see that it has any other good squares. |
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| Oct-18-06 |
| siggemannen: just play 1.d4 2.nf3 3.c4 and no budapest ever |
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| Oct-18-06 |
| RookFile: Is life that easy? When you play 1. d4 Nf6 2. Nf3, black can play either 2...c5, and you can't play the best lines in the Benoni involving f4, or 2....b6, which leads to super-solid lines in the Queen's Indian that are very difficult to beat. |
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| Oct-20-06 |
| ongyj: Haha <RookFile> If someone plays 2...c5 against me I'll simply bore him to death with 3.e3 :) Yeah life is easy after all, so long as you are willing to make it so! Also, in the above lone after 11.a3 can't Black choose to keep the Bishop with 11...Bc5 ? Thanks for answering these questions. |
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Oct-18-07
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| Harvestman: As a demonstration of how NOT to play the Budapest Gambit, I played the following atrocity as black over the board in a local league match last night, with plenty of time on my clock (i.e. not a rapidplay or anything) 1.d4 Ng6 2.c4 e5 3.dxe5 Ng4 4.Nf3 Bb4+ (mistake number 1) 5.Nc3 Bxc3+ (No. 2) 6.bxc3 Nc6 7.Bg5 (Oh dear) f6 8.exf6 Nxf6 9.e3 Qe7 (0-0) 10.Qc2 d6 (possibly Ne5 is better) 11.Bd3 g6? 12.Bxg6 1-0 My team captain was not impressed. |
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| Aug-25-08 |
| DarthStapler: Awesome opening |
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| Aug-29-08 |
| therangeravl: The Alekhine Variation is surely the most unusual and therefore most unpleasant variation for black. I think I read somewhere that 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e5 3.dxe5 Ng4 4.e4 Nxe5 5.f4 Nec6 6.a3!? a5 7.Be3 Na6 8.Bd3 Bc5 is about equal, but what about the direct 6.Be3 ? Could Black simply develop the same way or should he delay a5? |
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| Aug-29-08 |
| niemzo: After 6.Be3, black can play Bb4+ and keep the option of a5 for a later move. White doesn't waste a tempo with a3 so black shouldn't delay his own development.For example, after 7.Nc3 Bxc3
black has damaged white's pawn structure and has even the option of long castling after fianchettoing the bishop. |
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Aug-29-08
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| whiteshark: <Harvestman> After 11...Bg4 
click for larger view
I think there is still plenty of play in it. I wouldn't call it 'sufficient compensation', though. :D |
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| Apr-13-09 |
| Nasgard: Whats wrong with 4.Qd4? I'm sure white must fall into a trap somewhere if he plays it, because at first glance it seems to hold everything down. |
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Apr-13-09
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| blacksburg: <Nasgard> hmmm...good question. 4...d6 would seem to be the move.
5.exd6 Bxd6 and no immediate trap, but black has a major lead in development. for example
M Foudzi-Ahmad vs C Rogers, 2001
Beliavsky vs Epishin, 1991
M Foudzi-Ahmad vs H Shafruddin, 2001
Kobe vs G Georges, 1985
P Wharton vs Ali Abdoullah Elmejbi, 1980
V Kovalenko vs Beimanov, 1990
J Laszlo vs L Alfoldy, 1933
here's the only game that white has won in this line, according to the database. V Eryomenko vs A Zakharchenko, 2001 |
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Apr-13-09
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| blacksburg: upon closer inspection, this line seems to be like the Two Knights Defense (C55) with 4.Ng5 - it's probably very good for black, but you had better know your tactics before going in to it. |
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| Apr-13-09 |
| Nasgard: <blacksburg> Yeah looking at those games, while 4…d6 does make the gambit permanent, black's lead in development is more than adequate compensation – and it's obviously very easy to blunder, as M Foudzi-Ahmad vs C Rogers, 2001 testifies to. I’m just studying up on the Budapest because a 10 year old kid surprised me with it, and beat me in a match last weekend. I tried 4.e4 Alekhine’s variation, but fell into a really embarrassing trap. I’ve being going over it all day on Fritz and I believe white’s best try is probably 4.Bf4 – then 4…Nc6 5.Nf3 and if 5…Bb4+ 6.Nbd2 – but obviously white has to be careful there if black plays 6…Qe7 with very nasty surprises in mind. |
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| Apr-13-09 |
| chessman95: <Nasgard: Whats wrong with 4.Qd4? I'm sure white must fall into a trap somewhere if he plays it, because at first glance it seems to hold everything down.> Funny reputation that too-good-to-be-true moves have built up over these past few trap-obsessed decades... |
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| Apr-13-09 |
| chessman95: <I’ve being going over it all day on Fritz and I believe white’s best try is probably 4.Bf4 – then 4…Nc6 5.Nf3 and if 5…Bb4+ 6.Nbd2 – but obviously white has to be careful there if black plays 6…Qe7 with very nasty surprises in mind.> I can give a little advise if you like... the 6.Nbd2 line is called the Rubinstein Variation, and 6...Qe7 is indeed black's best move. After that white should probably play 7.a3, and the game usually continues 7...Ngxe5 8.Nxe5 Nxe5 9.e3 Bxd2+ 10.Qxd2 with the resulting position: 
click for larger viewwhich is no more than slightly better for white. The other (main) option at move 6 is Nc3, which I beleive is considered the main line. Here the game usually goes: 6.Nc3 Bxc3+ 7.bxc3 Qe7 8.Qd5 f6 and now the exchange 9.exf6 Nxf6 and the queen should retreat to d3 with this position: 
click for larger viewwhere white probably has more of an advantage than in the Rubinstein Variation. -- In case anyone didn't get some of the moves in those lines, it is probably because the black queen on e7 and knight on e5 threaten smothered mate at times, making these lines very tactical. I know it's kind of embarrising that I know some of this theory, but I guess my early fascination of gambits lured me into these crazy defenses... don't worry though; I play much more sound openings now. |
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Apr-13-09
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| Marmot PFL: <chessman95> Even if you don't play these openings you still have to meet them. I play that line for white too, but usually just play 7 e3, 8 Be2, and 9 0-0 instead of wasting time with a3. |
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| Apr-14-09 |
| Nasgard: Yeah I think a3 is a bit of a nothing move because the Bishop can't be taken, so why attack it? |
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| Apr-14-09 |
| chessman95: <Marmot PFL: <chessman95> Even if you don't play these openings you still have to meet them. I play that line for white too, but usually just play 7 e3, 8 Be2, and 9 0-0 instead of wasting time with a3.> <Nasgard: Yeah I think a3 is a bit of a nothing move because the Bishop can't be taken, so why attack it?> You are both right that the bishop cannot be taken immediatly, but this does not mean in any way that it is a 'wasted move' or anything. Just because a move does not have any immediate forced effect on the game does not mean it's 'useless', because once the mating tactics are eliminated the bishop will have to move or capture. A good example of this is in the Ruy. The ...Qd4 tactic that black has means that the move 3.Bb5 does not have any immediate influence, and in fact the move can be totally ignored if the black player so wishes. However, in the long run the pressure that the bishop gives becomes enormous, and usually lands black in a somewhat cramped position. |
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Jul-18-09
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| notyetagm: Anyone know what line World Champion Viswanathan Anand plays against the <BUDAPEST GAMBIT> in simuls? Only one such game exists in the cg.com database, Anand vs J Garcia Sanchez, 2007, in which Anand plays the <ADLER DEFENSE>. Anand's simul play against the Budapest Gambit was addressed in <New In Chess Yearbook 88>; could someone please tell me what that Yearbook says Anand plays against the Budapest in simuls? Thanks |
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| Aug-19-09 |
| muwatalli: does anyone know of any other ways to deal with the rubinstein variation other than 8... f6 or 8... Qa3. for instance early deviations or some such? i like the budapest defense but i sometimes have trouble with this variation. usually i don't find tactical compensation after 8 f6 exf6 9 nxf6 qd3 10 d6 followed by white playing e3 or g3, and qa3 is just not so good. but maybe i am just missing something. |
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