< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 4 OF 4 ·
|Oct-16-06|| ||ongyj: <NateDawg> In fact I haven't came across this line before:( Well, I suppose in that position White can try to make some disturbance with either b4 or Qd5 and try to get an open a file or something. But nothing concrete, just some abstract ideas in my mind:)|
|Oct-18-06|| ||jahhaj: <NateDawg> I think you misread my post, comfortable edge was what I said, not considerable advantage. That the main thing that strikes me about this line. White's game is comfortable, he has reasonable winning chances, a clear plan, and no losing chances I can see.|
I wouldn't look to a computer evaluation to judge an opening. I score very heavily against the Budapest, that's what I base my evaluation on.
I know an early 10...a5 is a current favourite for Black. If that line holds up then White can switch to the older 7.a3 which is also good.
In your position the usual queen side advance is called for I think, 14.b4. Looks OK to me.
|Oct-18-06|| ||jahhaj: <NateDawg> I really don't see the Ne5 as powerful. Inn fact I think it's one of Black's problems. If White gets a pawn to c5 (not hard to do) then Black sometimes cannot take dxc5 because the d6 pawn is needed to defend the knight. This can mean the d6 pawn is weak after White plays cxd6.|
Black can avoid this by playing Ng6 but that puts the knight rather out of play. I don't see that it has any other good squares.
|Oct-18-06|| ||siggemannen: just play 1.d4 2.nf3 3.c4 and no budapest ever|
|Oct-18-06|| ||RookFile: Is life that easy? When you play 1. d4 Nf6 2. Nf3, black can play either 2...c5, and you can't play the best lines in the Benoni involving f4, or 2....b6, which leads to super-solid lines in the Queen's Indian that are very difficult to beat.|
|Oct-20-06|| ||ongyj: Haha <RookFile> If someone plays 2...c5 against me I'll simply bore him to death with 3.e3 :) Yeah life is easy after all, so long as you are willing to make it so! Also, in the above lone after 11.a3 can't Black choose to keep the Bishop with 11...Bc5 ? Thanks for answering these questions.|
|Oct-18-07|| ||Harvestman: As a demonstration of how NOT to play the Budapest Gambit, I played the following atrocity as black over the board in a local league match last night, with plenty of time on my clock (i.e. not a rapidplay or anything)|
1.d4 Ng6 2.c4 e5 3.dxe5 Ng4 4.Nf3 Bb4+ (mistake number 1) 5.Nc3 Bxc3+ (No. 2) 6.bxc3 Nc6 7.Bg5 (Oh dear) f6 8.exf6 Nxf6 9.e3 Qe7 (0-0) 10.Qc2 d6 (possibly Ne5 is better) 11.Bd3 g6? 12.Bxg6 1-0
My team captain was not impressed.
|Aug-25-08|| ||DarthStapler: Awesome opening|
|Aug-29-08|| ||therangeravl: The Alekhine Variation is surely the most unusual and therefore most unpleasant variation for black. I think I read somewhere that 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e5 3.dxe5 Ng4 4.e4 Nxe5 5.f4 Nec6 6.a3!? a5 7.Be3 Na6 8.Bd3 Bc5 is about equal, but what about the direct 6.Be3 ? Could Black simply develop the same way or should he delay a5? |
|Aug-29-08|| ||niemzo: After 6.Be3, black can play Bb4+ and keep the option of a5 for a later move. White doesn't waste a tempo with a3 so black shouldn't delay his own development.For example, after 7.Nc3 Bxc3
black has damaged white's pawn structure and has even the option of long castling after fianchettoing the bishop.|
|Aug-29-08|| ||whiteshark: <Harvestman> After 11...Bg4 |
click for larger view
I think there is still plenty of play in it. I wouldn't call it 'sufficient compensation', though. :D
|Apr-13-09|| ||Nasgard: Whats wrong with 4.Qd4? I'm sure white must fall into a trap somewhere if he plays it, because at first glance it seems to hold everything down.|
|Apr-13-09|| ||blacksburg: <Nasgard> hmmm...good question.|
4...d6 would seem to be the move.
5.exd6 Bxd6 and no immediate trap, but black has a major lead in development.
M Foudzi-Ahmad vs C Rogers, 2001
Beliavsky vs Epishin, 1991
M Foudzi-Ahmad vs H Shafruddin, 2001
Kobe vs G Georges, 1985
P Wharton vs Ali Abdoullah Elmejbi, 1980
V Kovalenko vs Beimanov, 1990
J Laszlo vs L Alfoldy, 1933
here's the only game that white has won in this line, according to the database.
V Eryomenko vs A Zakharchenko, 2001
|Apr-13-09|| ||blacksburg: upon closer inspection, this line seems to be like the Two Knights Defense (C55) with 4.Ng5 - it's probably very good for black, but you had better know your tactics before going in to it.|
|Apr-13-09|| ||Nasgard: <blacksburg> Yeah looking at those games, while 4…d6 does make the gambit permanent, black's lead in development is more than adequate compensation – and it's obviously very easy to blunder, as M Foudzi-Ahmad vs C Rogers, 2001 testifies to. |
I’m just studying up on the Budapest because a 10 year old kid surprised me with it, and beat me in a match last weekend. I tried 4.e4 Alekhine’s variation, but fell into a really embarrassing trap. I’ve being going over it all day on Fritz and I believe white’s best try is probably 4.Bf4 – then 4…Nc6 5.Nf3 and if 5…Bb4+ 6.Nbd2 – but obviously white has to be careful there if black plays 6…Qe7 with very nasty surprises in mind.
|Apr-13-09|| ||chessman95: <Nasgard: Whats wrong with 4.Qd4? I'm sure white must fall into a trap somewhere if he plays it, because at first glance it seems to hold everything down.>|
Funny reputation that too-good-to-be-true moves have built up over these past few trap-obsessed decades...
|Apr-13-09|| ||chessman95: <I’ve being going over it all day on Fritz and I believe white’s best try is probably 4.Bf4 – then 4…Nc6 5.Nf3 and if 5…Bb4+ 6.Nbd2 – but obviously white has to be careful there if black plays 6…Qe7 with very nasty surprises in mind.>|
I can give a little advise if you like... the 6.Nbd2 line is called the Rubinstein Variation, and 6...Qe7 is indeed black's best move. After that white should probably play 7.a3, and the game usually continues 7...Ngxe5 8.Nxe5 Nxe5 9.e3 Bxd2+ 10.Qxd2 with the resulting position:
click for larger view
which is no more than slightly better for white. The other (main) option at move 6 is Nc3, which I beleive is considered the main line. Here the game usually goes: 6.Nc3 Bxc3+ 7.bxc3 Qe7 8.Qd5 f6 and now the exchange 9.exf6 Nxf6 and the queen should retreat to d3 with this position:
click for larger view
where white probably has more of an advantage than in the Rubinstein Variation.
-- In case anyone didn't get some of the moves in those lines, it is probably because the black queen on e7 and knight on e5 threaten smothered mate at times, making these lines very tactical.
I know it's kind of embarrising that I know some of this theory, but I guess my early fascination of gambits lured me into these crazy defenses... don't worry though; I play much more sound openings now.
|Apr-13-09|| ||Marmot PFL: <chessman95> Even if you don't play these openings you still have to meet them. I play that line for white too, but usually just play 7 e3, 8 Be2, and 9 0-0 instead of wasting time with a3.|
|Apr-14-09|| ||Nasgard: Yeah I think a3 is a bit of a nothing move because the Bishop can't be taken, so why attack it?|
|Apr-14-09|| ||chessman95: <Marmot PFL: <chessman95> Even if you don't play these openings you still have to meet them. I play that line for white too, but usually just play 7 e3, 8 Be2, and 9 0-0 instead of wasting time with a3.>|
<Nasgard: Yeah I think a3 is a bit of a nothing move because the Bishop can't be taken, so why attack it?>
You are both right that the bishop cannot be taken immediatly, but this does not mean in any way that it is a 'wasted move' or anything. Just because a move does not have any immediate forced effect on the game does not mean it's 'useless', because once the mating tactics are eliminated the bishop will have to move or capture.
A good example of this is in the Ruy. The ...Qd4 tactic that black has means that the move 3.Bb5 does not have any immediate influence, and in fact the move can be totally ignored if the black player so wishes. However, in the long run the pressure that the bishop gives becomes enormous, and usually lands black in a somewhat cramped position.
|Jul-18-09|| ||notyetagm: Anyone know what line World Champion Viswanathan Anand plays against the <BUDAPEST GAMBIT> in simuls?|
Only one such game exists in the cg.com database, Anand vs J Garcia Sanchez, 2007, in which Anand plays the <ADLER DEFENSE>.
Anand's simul play against the Budapest Gambit was addressed in <New In Chess Yearbook 88>; could someone please tell me what that Yearbook says Anand plays against the Budapest in simuls?
|Aug-19-09|| ||muwatalli: does anyone know of any other ways to deal with the rubinstein variation other than 8... f6 or 8... Qa3. for instance early deviations or some such? i like the budapest defense but i sometimes have trouble with this variation. usually i don't find tactical compensation after 8 f6 exf6 9 nxf6 qd3 10 d6 followed by white playing e3 or g3, and qa3 is just not so good. but maybe i am just missing something.|
|May-06-12|| ||Phony Benoni: Here's an interesting little game, published in the <New York Evening Post> of April 25, 1936, and played between two players who, for reasons which may become clear, preferred to remain anonymous.|
<1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e5 3.dxe5 Ng4 4.e4 h5 5.f4 Bc5 6.Nf3 f6 7.exf6 Qxf6 8.Nc3 Nc6 9.Bd2?! g5?!>
Up to the last move on each side the play has not been too unusual, at least not for a Budapest Gambit. However, <9.Bd2> was not good, and Black probably should have chomped away with 9...Nf2. Instead, they went in for the trappy <9...g5>, leading to this position:
click for larger view
White now finds the second-worst move on the board:
<10.Nxg5?? Qxg5! 11.fxg5? Bf2+ 12.Ke2 Nd4+ 13.Kd3 Ne5#>
Now, half of you are probably thinking, "What was the worst move?", while the other half are wondering, "Why not 10.fxg5?" You're both thinking the same thing: 10.fxg5?? Bf2+ 11.Ke2 Qxf3+!!, and it's mate after either 12.gxf3 Nd4+ 13.Kd3 Ne5#, or 12.Kxf3 Nd4+ 13.Kf4 O-O#!
No other information is available about the game, except that it was played in a rapid transit (ten seconds per move) tournament.
|May-10-12|| ||FSR: <Phony Benoni> Black must have been a very strong player to see that in a rapid-transit game.|
|Sep-02-15|| ||MarkFinan: This is the strangest opening (Imo) in Stockfish's opening repertoire. I always do well with it from the white side of things but I can see why no top players play it. Not that many games in the database anyway, but.. Plenty of them are decisive games. I like it.|
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