page 1 of 58; games 1-25 of 1,441  Game   Result Moves Year Event/Locale Opening 1. J Holzwarth vs J Bauer   0-1 47 1890 Kolisch Memorial A53 Old Indian 2. Von Scheve vs W Paulsen ½-½ 47 1892 DSB-07.Kongress A53 Old Indian 3. Salwe vs Chigorin 0-1 33 1906 Lodz (Match) A53 Old Indian 4. Marshall vs Chigorin 0-1 30 1906 Ostende A53 Old Indian 5. Marshall vs Chigorin   ½-½ 38 1906 15th DSB Kongress (Nuremberg) A53 Old Indian 6. Tarrasch vs Chigorin   ½-½ 49 1906 15th DSB Kongress (Nuremberg) A53 Old Indian 7. E Cohn vs Chigorin 1-0 37 1907 Karlsbad A53 Old Indian 8. Metger vs Mieses   0-1 42 1907 It (b) A53 Old Indian 9. Salwe vs Mieses 1-0 31 1907 It (b) A53 Old Indian 10. F G Jacob vs Mieses   1-0 38 1907 Ostende-B A53 Old Indian 11. Swiderski vs Mieses   0-1 25 1907 Ostende-B A53 Old Indian 12. Teichmann vs Nimzowitsch   ½-½ 45 1907 Ostende-B A53 Old Indian 13. W John vs Nimzowitsch ½-½ 29 1907 Ostende-B A53 Old Indian 14. O Bernstein vs Burn 0-1 33 1909 St Petersburg A53 Old Indian 15. Marshall vs W Moorman 1-0 50 1909 22nd New York State Chess Association Championship A53 Old Indian 16. Tartakower vs Znosko-Borovsky   ½-½ 68 1909 St Petersburg A53 Old Indian 17. Salwe vs S Von Freymann 1-0 47 1909 St Petersburg A53 Old Indian 18. Salwe vs Tartakower 1-0 61 1910 Hamburg A53 Old Indian 19. Rotlewi vs Bogoljubov 1-0 25 1910 Warsaw Tournament A53 Old Indian 20. Rotlewi vs Bogoljubov 1-0 25 1910 WTZGSz 10th anniversary tournament A53 Old Indian 21. B Kostic vs Burn   ½-½ 25 1911 Karlsbad A53 Old Indian 22. J Esser vs H Baudet   0-1 34 1912 NED-ch02 A53 Old Indian 23. J C Reeders vs J W Te Kolste   0-1 25 1912 NED-ch02 A53 Old Indian 24. J C Reeders vs H Baudet   ½-½ 44 1912 NED-ch02 A53 Old Indian 25. J Corzo vs Capablanca 0-1 37 1913 Havana A53 Old Indian  page 1 of 58; games 1-25 of 1,441    REFINE SEARCH:   White wins (1-0) | Black wins (0-1) | Draws (1/2-1/2)

< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 1 OF 2 ·  Later Kibitzing> Jul-30-04    atripodi: Is the Old Indian worth taking up? It's always talked poorly about in opening reference books, and to me, it does often seem like a King's Indian minus two tempi. Yet it seems to always have a small group of GMs and IMs who use it (our resident unorthodox opening master Lawrence Day being among the most prolific users), and it seems like it would be a good way to avoid common KI territory if it's sound. So...well, is it sound? Jul-30-04    Bastrikov: <atripodi> why are you interested in this opening? Jul-31-04    BiLL RobeRTiE: <Bastrikov> why the hell shouldn't he be? :D Jul-31-04    atripodi: Well, I tend to like really solid systems against d4 and have become disenchanted with my usual QGD Lasker system due to all the non-main line continuations that are often at least as good as main line. I like the Bogo-Indian, but at my level and in my area it's very infrequent and I'm not sure I like the Nimzo enough to study up on all the various systems white can use. Jul-31-04    IMlday: It is much more solid than a KID for 3 reasons: (a)White cannot open a file against the King by h4-h5xg6, nor attack with Be3, Qd2, Bh6 etc; (b)White's 'extra' tempi mean he plays 0-0, foregoing long castling; (c) If White advances d4-d5 the Be7 is ideally placed to defend the b4, c4-c5, standard pawn storm on the Queenside. Middlegame positions often resemble the Breyer Variation of the Ruy lopez where Black also 'loses' two tempi (nb8-c6-b8). I played a few Lasker QGD's but they were all pretty boring draws. Jul-31-04    Bastrikov: I like solid systems also but constantly changing your opening reptoir is a bad habit Jul-31-04    Bastrikov: Proof IM Day old indian wins 1 d4 Nf6 2 Bf4 d6 3 Nc3 Nbd7 4 e4 e5 5 dxe5 dxe5 6 Be3 c6 7 Bc4 Be7 8 a3 O-O 9 Nf3 Rb8 10 b4 Qc7 11 O-O Rd8 12 Bg5 a6 13 Bxf6 Nxf6 14 Qe2 Bd6 15 Qe3 Be6 16 Qg5 Bxc4 17 Rfe1 Be6 18 h3 Qe7 19 Ne2 Nd7 20 Qg3 Nb6 21 Ng5 Nc4 22 Qf3 Qxg5 23 h4 Qxh4 24 Ng3 Qf6 25 Qxf6 gxf6 26 Red1 Be7 27 Rd3 Rxd3 28 cxd3 Nb6 29 Rd1 Rd8 30 f3 Nc8 31 Ne2 Nd6 32 Ng3 Ne8 33 Kh2 Ng7 34 Kg1 f5 35 Ne2 fxe4 36 fxe4 Bg5 37 Ng3 Bf4 38 Kf2 Bxg3+ 39 Kxg3 f5 40 exf5 Bxf5 41 Rf1 Rxd3+ 42 Kh4 Rd4+ 43 Kg3 Rg4+ 44 Kh2 Rf4 45 g3 Rxf1 46 Kg2 Ra1 47 a4 Rxa4 48 g4 Bxg4 49 Kg3 Rxb4 50 Kf2 a5 51 Ke3 a4 52 Kd2 a3 53 Kc3 Rb6 54 Kc4 a2 55 Kc5 Rb1 56 Kd6 a1=Q 57 Kc7 Qa5+ 58 Kd6 Rd1+ 59 Ke7 Qd8# 0-1--- Jul-31-04    IMlday: I don't think OI wins; it's probably in many lines, but so are the other 1.d4 defences. However it keeps the pieces on the board permitting unclear middlegames if White gets too passive or aggressive. Mar-28-05    paladin at large: <IMIday>I don't think OI wins; it's probably in many lines, but so are the other 1.d4 defences. However it keeps the pieces on the board permitting unclear middlegames if White gets too passive or aggressive. Thank you for this succinct and to the point appraisal. Lasker and Capablanca used OI sparingly and successfully, apparently in both cases against very aggressive players they wished to throw off balance (Marshall-Lasker) (Juan Corzo-Capablanca). In this vein, I think it makes sense for some players who do not mind having to change clothes in a phone booth to have the OI ready for the right opponent. Mar-29-05    IMlday: This one is listed in the database as an English but it sort of transposes. Lasker was very good at tranquillizing the excitable and exciting the tranquil. Tartakower vs Lasker, 1924 Mar-29-05    paladin at large: <IMlday>Thanks for the link - I would not have found it otherwise. Mar-29-05    Eric Schiller: Interested in this line? Here's proof it can be exciting: Polugaevsky vs Nezhmetdinov, 1958 Mar-29-05    dragon40: I am a pure "D" Pawn player, but I have rarely faced the Old Indian...I do think it is better than its repoutation. These days, the player with the black pieces is looking for a dynamic, sharp and often times immediately unbalancing system to set White back on his feet so to speak; and the Old Indian is not that way in most of its forms. It can transpose into the Modern Defense in a few lines as well as previously mentioned the Breyer Lopez..but it hasnt the "killer " reputation that the Benoni, Benko, and other pure King's Indian systems do for the black pieces that want trouble early. It is a good opening, purely playable AND can win if White pushes too hard or treats it indifferently..so it could be worth a try for a 2nd or 3rd spot in a black piece player's reperiore in my opinion. Other references to see typical positions and how the opening usually plays can be found in many games from the 1950's and 60's when it was used quite a bit by players like Bronstein, Petrosian, Boleslavsky and others... Apr-17-05    Poisonpawns: Kotov vs Petrosian, 1953 Averbakh vs Kotov, 1953 The most beautiful game of the Zurich Tournament 1953 according to Bronstein happens to be an old indian! Apr-22-05    dragon40: <poisonedpawns> There were quite a few Old Indian games in that 1953 Candidate's tournament and in that time period itself. It was very popular and almost all the leading Gm's at that time played it with the black pieces...of course, it has its advantages and disadvantages as all other openings, but it might be better against a club players becasue it is now much less used the the "standard" King's Indian. Aug-22-05    who: The thing is surprising someone with a solid defensive but not great offensive defense isn't all that useful. If they know enough to know it's not a poor opening they probably will play conservatively, and you might have an easier time getting a draw then you would otherwise - but so what. Pulling a Benoni out (if the opponent is unprepared) seems like a better plan. If they're not prepared you quickly gain the initiative (IMHO). Sep-26-05    Astardis: Why is it called Old Indian in the first place? What's old in it? And if there is something old, what would be the new? Sep-26-05    Benzol: <Astardis> Perhaps First Indian would be a better name for it. It was pioneered by Chigorin the late 19th century and was the oldest of the Indian systems with the King's Indian, Queen's Indian, Nimzoindian and Gruenfeld Defences appearing later in the early 20th century Oct-10-05    paladin at large: <The thing is surprising someone with a solid defensive but not great offensive defense isn't all that useful.> I disagree. As IMDay pointed out, the Old Indian affords for plenty of complexity in the middlegame, as it is easier to keep all the pieces on the board for a longer time. You can still play to win with this defense. Nov-28-05    Averageguy: I usually play the QGA (Queen's Gambit Accepted) but thought I'd give this a try if I could in the Oban Congress Major (U-1600). This was due to the fact that I had seen alot of good wins for black in this system. In the second round I used it against a 1528 rated opponent. Here is the game (Me as Black): 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 d6 3.e3 g6 4.Nbd2 Nbd7 5.e4 e5 6.c3 Bg7 7.Bc4 0-0 8.0-0 c6 9.a3 Nh5 10.Re1 Nf4 11.g3 Nh3+ 12.Kg2 Nb6 (Here I was thinking about either this or 12...Nf6, sacrificing the e-pawn, the main idea being 13.de Ng4, attacking the f2-pawn (my knight is not hanging on h3 due to discovered checks). In my calculations however I couldn't see what do do against 14.Rf1 defending the f2-pawn. The key tactic in my head that I missed was 14...Nhxf2 15.Rxf2 Ne3+ winning the queen.) 13.Ba2 Kh8 (Aiming for the ...f5 push.) 14.Nf1 Qe7 (Supporting the e-pawn and getting of the d-file so I don't have to worry about a Queen exchange.) 15.Ne3 c5 (Aiming to clarify the position in the centre so it would be easier to go about my Kingside attack.) 16.de de (I was thinking about 16...Bxe5 but couldn't see anything after 17.Nxe5 Qxe5 18.Ng4 Qh5 19.Ne3.) 17.Qc2 f5 (Tactically complicating the game but seemingly losing a piece.) 18.ef gf 19.Kxh3 f4+ 20.Ng4 Bxg4+ 21.Kxg4 Qd7+ 22.Kh4 Bf6+ 23.Ng5 Bxg5+ 24.Kxg5 Rg8+ 25.Bxg8 Rxg8+ 26.Kh4 Qg4# My opponent (a wonderfully nice and cheerful man)took the loss well and congratulated me for the win. Comments on this game would be appreciated. Dec-11-05    Averageguy: I think that I will stop playing this opening, because I don't like the types of positions that occur if white exchanges in the centre with de. So can anyone here please reccomend a low-theory aggresive system against 1.d4 please? Dec-11-05    azaris: <Averageguy> What's wrong with the QGA? Have you looked at the Old Benoni after 1.d4 c5 2.d5 e6 3.c4 f6, or the von Hennig-Schara Gambit in the Tarrasch 1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.c3 c5 4.cxd5 cxd4 5.a4+ d7 6.xd4 exd5 7.xd5 c6. Then there's the Vulture (1.d4 c5 2.d5 f6 3.c4 e4): http://www.chesscafe.com/text/kaiss... http://www.chesscafe.com/text/kaiss... http://www.chesscafe.com/text/kaiss... Dec-11-05    Dudley: Hmm- Low theory yet aggressive? Hard to find things like that. My best shot at it would be something like the Leningrad Dutch, or if you a gambiteer the Albin counter gambit which I find annoying to play against. It seems easy to play for Black but I could be wrong. Dec-11-05    Gypsy: <Astardis: Why is it called Old Indian in the first place? What's old in it? And if there is something old, what would be the new?> In fact, new-indian openings is another name for queen indian (Panov Estrin, Pachman, ...). In addition to <Benzol> info: Old Indian was a Chigorin invention, who also invented KID, but did not trust KID enough to play it out of the starting blocks. Towards the WW2, OI acquired a cult following in Ukraine thanks to mostly F. Bohatirchuk. Then, Boleslavsky and Bronstein made KID/OI into a mainstream weappon. But even they often entered KID via the OI lines because of the very same reasons laid out by Chigorin: they wanted to avoid the lines like the Saemish. Dec-11-05    Gypsy: <Hmm- Low theory yet aggressive? > Maybe Chigorin QGD? Wild with active piece play. According to <IMDay> the true ancestor to indian systems. It has agresive lines that need to be played accurately, but, because seldom played at the superGM level, theory does not change much. < Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 1 OF 2 ·  Later Kibitzing>

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