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| Apr-20-06 |
| Wilsonia: Well all I can say Poisonpawns is that you must be a fantastically strong player because 2.h3 objectively offers white no advantage. |
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| Apr-20-06 |
| Poisonpawns: (Wilsonia) just chk this game out on the merits of 2.h3 Korchnoi vs Hans-Jurg Kanel, 1979
2.h3 is quite primative,but the idea behind it is quite sound and white gets attacking chances without being less than = in the position.Beside that 2.h3 in the dutch is less analysed.So most times blacks preparation is out of the window. |
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Apr-20-06
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| ganstaman: I don't think 2.h3 is really good. It doesn't need to be heavily analyzed for black to be able to figure out white's plans -- playing 3.g4 and attacking the kingside. I think that if black had castled queenside in that game he would have been ok. Also, I think that 2...d5, heading for a stonewall (or 2...d6 which is normal in the Leningrad, right?) would be fine. I doubt it's a bad move, but I think white has many better choices. Even if they're more heavily analyzed, they work. I've never actually tried it or played against it in a game, so it may have more merits than I give it credit for. |
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| Jun-28-06 |
| LluviaSean: Hmmm... The kingside is really exposed... |
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Jun-28-06
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| ganstaman: <LluviaSean> You mean black is very prepared for a kingside attack and white will castle into it anyway... So yeah, it's exposed, but after ...0-0, the black king looks protected enough, at least for now. I'm sure there's a good quote that says something similar to this: in order to create weakness in your opponent's position, you have to first create weaknesses in your own. Even from the start, you have to open yourself up in order to get your pieces out. It's a nice double-edged strategy, but it makes the game more exciting. One game that I like that really brings out this point (though there may be errors in the game anyway), is Santasiere vs J Sherwin, 1952 . White's 11th move gives him terrible kingside pawn structure, but he uses it to set up a nice attack. I've played that opening many times, and once I did the same and won because of it, once I did the same and lost because of it. |
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| Jun-28-06 |
| Giancarlo: I have played the dutch for the most part of my games as black (30%). However, out of those games, I wasn't so interested in the leningrad lines until recently. The reason I believe the dutch worked so well for me is because you don't have that many players (rating 2000-) who will look into the dutch lines. I think as the skill level increases, the quality play with black in the dutch lines starts to diminish. I don't know why, but I just found it to be like that personally. |
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| Nov-01-06 |
| soughzin: Those who play the Leningrad Dutch, do you play this against most other non e4 systems too? You can't really play the symetrical to the enlgish because 1.Nf3 can lead to the enlish or more typical d pawn stuff. |
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| Apr-17-07 |
| Poisonpawns: I play 1..f5 against 1.d4 and 1.Nf3 but against 1.c4 i like 1..e5 |
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| Apr-18-07 |
| foolishmovesss: Quick question on the Dutch. I like to play nimzo and Bogo against d4. Thinking about Dutch for c4 and Nf3. Thoughts? I know the Dutch works well for c4, but not sure about Nf3. Thanks. |
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Apr-18-07
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| ganstaman: They basically amount to the same thing in most cases. White can always just refuse to play d4, but then that lets you get in ...e5 without even trying, which is what you generally want in the Dutch. The only special line to look out for that I'm aware of is 1. Nf3 f5 2. e4! I know nothing of this line, but I don't think you want to try to figure it out OTB when you haven't even played a normal Dutch all that long. Don't do this, though, and you should be ok enough: Haberditz vs Hysek, 1938 |
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| Apr-19-07 |
| Poisonpawns: To play Dutch 1..f5 requires alot of preperation,so be ready to put time in!Due to many,many anti-dutch systems.Which can end your game very quickly if not prepared.Also you hardly ever get the chance to play your main lines anyway.I would say 50-60% of my Dutch games begin with some kind of gambit or other oddity by white.The plus side is that it will boost your chess knowledge and defensive skills,and you WILL learn to counter attack when given the chance. |
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| Apr-19-07 |
| foolishmovesss: Thanks for the advice guys.
<poisonpawns> I have played the Dutch before, and tend to agree with you about playing main lines. Anti Dutch systems seem to be around every corner. Good thing for me I shouldnt have to play it to often. Only gonna use it against c4 and Nf3. I find for me it works out much better against c4 then d4. Perhaps there are just less anti Dutch lines this way. Anyhow thanks for the advice. |
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| Apr-21-07 |
| grijs: There are several methods for avoiding the anti-Dutch systems:
(1) 1. ... e6, after wich you have to be prepared for 2. e4, The French;
(2) 1. ... d6, which can (after 2. e4) lead to the Pirc. |
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Apr-21-07
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| egilarne: GM Stefan Kindermann in his excellent book on the Leningrad variation, 2005, says that GM Magnus Carlsen, at that time 13 years old, more or less refuted 1 Nf3 f5?! by playing 2 d3! intending e4:
Carlsen vs Dolmatov, 2004 |
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| Apr-21-07 |
| Poisonpawns: <grijs> In trying to avoid the anti-dutch systems ,one can create so much extra work for oneself! |
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| Apr-21-07 |
| grijs: True <Poisonpawns>, but you need a defense against 1. e4 anyway. So, you can play the The French or the Pirc against 1. e4 and the Dutch against 1.d4, 1.c4 etc... |
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| Apr-29-07 |
| WTHarvey: Here are some traps and zaps in A87 miniatures: http://www.wtharvey.com/a87.html |
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Jul-06-07
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| whiteshark: Is the Leningrad Dutch now the St.Petersburg Dutch? |
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Jul-06-07
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| ganstaman: <whiteshark: Is the Leningrad Dutch now the St.Petersburg Dutch?> I've read that before -- where? |
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Jul-06-07
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| whiteshark: <ganstaman>: on a chessninja page ?? |
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Jul-07-07
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| ganstaman: <whiteshark> Ah, yes, that could be it. |
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| Jul-07-07 |
| Tomlinsky: Korchnoi on playing the Leningrad Dutch when he was a junior: "I used to play the Leningrad System... then after one or two years I realised that NOBODY understands what happens in that system including myself. So I gave up this system and came to play only the modest d6 in the Dutch." |
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| Jul-19-07 |
| nummerzwei: Does anybody here have some experience with 5...d6 6.d5 in this variantionas white?
It appears to me that this line leads to quite "dry" play, which reminds me mostly of the English opening.
But it is called a good variation by Keene, who has also played it.
I would like to learn more about this line, because I havenīt found a real system against the Dutch. If someone plays it against me,I will answer it with c4 followed by g3 and son, but as I said before, I donīt know that much about the plans and theoretical variations of the main lines.
Is there a good books about g3 against the Dutch that covers the all the normal setups by black (Leningrad, Stonewall,Classical)? Thanks in advance, No2 |
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Oct-21-07
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| Open Defence: Opening of the Day... |
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| Mar-24-08 |
| BirdBrain: I was reading the posts on the 2. h3 lines, and I am not a master or anything, but I have analyzed this line and found an interesting idea for Black. Of course the problem is so many players want to force their pet lines, and do not explore the intracacies of any opening. I believe to be good at the Dutch, you have to understand it. I play the Bird as well, and I used to lose consistently to my personal computer, but I came back and tried new ideas and got more solid each time with the pawn structures. A lot of lines evaluate d4 f5 h3 Nf6, but I do not believe that is near as good as playing d5! on move 2. For instance: d4 f5 h3 d5 g4 fxg hxg Bxg Qd3 Nf6 Rxh7 does not work the same, as the king can flee via d7. If you don't like this, then don't play d5 - simply develop Nf6 g4 fxg hxg Nxg4 Qd3 g6, which is another line that prevents the Quick Queen checkmate...However, I believe the 2...d5 line offers Black more chances to dance toe to toe tactically with White, with ideas such as Qd6 and a possible 0-0-0. |
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