< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·
|Mar-01-05|| ||e4Newman: <Allthough, now that I look at it, 8.Qd2 Qxb2 9.Rb1 Qa3 10.Rb3 Qa5 11.Rb5 followed by 12.dxc5 seems to be a solid position for white even with the weakened kingside and queenside.> I read somewhere that a good rule of thumb is - capturing the QN pawn is punishible by a night's sleep in the streets!|
<In my opinion, 7.Qa5 isn't so bad>... I was thinking more in terms of the retreat to d8, but as you point out, the timing is the real problem because now a retreat to anywhere BUT d8 wastes even more time, so yes moving to a5 might even be called bad. And of course - <On 7...Qb6 white has to find a way to protect the b-pawn.>
I agree with your focus on the c2 pawn in front of the king. Sometimes it takes the mind of a kasparov to make it happen though - see his latest game Anand vs Kasparov, 2005 and how he couterattacks at the f2 pawn in front of the king in the endgame.
<But other than that, thanks for looking over the game.> No problem, take my ideas with a grain of salt. I probably learned more than you, lol :)
|Mar-03-05|| ||misguidedaggression: <I read somewhere that a good rule of thumb is - capturing the QN pawn is punishible by a night's sleep in the streets!> Fischer seemed to have some luck capturing poisoned pawns like that -- until Spassky put a stop to it. ;)|
I know a few poisoned pawn lines in the Winawer and Latvian, but not enough to be comfortable with them.
Actually, 10...Qc7 and 10...Qd8 are the only moves: 10...Qb4 11.a3 and 10...Qh5 11.g4 followed by g5, Be2 and Bf2 and Black loses the queen. I remember thinking during the game that it was too bad that I didn't have any way to control c7 and d8, but the queen had to go there anyway, which interfered with black's rooks either way. Otherwise, the knight is better developed on d4 so I would have tried to keep it there.
I'd comment a little more, but I have to go out drinking right now....Cheers!
|Jun-09-05|| ||ionnn: In the following game Nakamura-Smirin the 4 ... Bg7 5.Nf3 0-0 6. e5 Nfd7 7 h4 c5 line has been played. Nakamura didn't play 8 e6!? but the more usual 8 h5. Then after 8. ... cxd4 9. hxg6 dxc3 10. gxf7+ Rxf7 11 Bc4 Nf8 12 Ng5 e6 13 Nxf7 Smirin played 13 ... cxb2?! and resigned a few moves later. I wonder :
1) why Nakamura didn't play 8 e6 ?
2) why Smirin played 13 ... cxb2 instead of 13 ... Kxf7 ?
[Event "7th Foxwoods Open"]
[Site "Connecticut USA"]
[White "Nakamura, H."]
[Black "Smirin, I."]
1. e4 g6 2. d4 Bg7 3. Nc3 d6 4. f4 Nf6 5. Nf3 O-O 6. e5 Nfd7 7. h4 c5 8. h5
cxd4 9. hxg6 dxc3 10. gxf7+ Rxf7 11. Bc4 Nf8 12. Ng5 e6 13. Nxf7 cxb2 14. Bxb2
Qa5+ 15. Kf1 Kxf7 16. Qh5+ Kg8 17. Bd3 Qb4 18. Rb1 Bd7 19. c4 Qd2 20. Bxh7+
Nxh7 21. Qxh7+ Kf8 22. Rh4 1-0
|Jun-09-05|| ||e4Newman: Thanks for sharing that game <ionnn>. That's the type of all out attack I have been craving. Is it in the chessgames database? Maybe I will check.|
|Aug-06-05|| ||TheMouse: Does someone tell me the "famous" drawing line? I know it;s
1. e4 d6
2. d4 Nf6
3. Nc3 g6
4. f4 Ng7
5. Nf3 c5
|Sep-09-05|| ||Averageguy: <TheMouse> I think the line that you are refering to is 1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 g6 4.f4 Bg7 5.Nf3 c5 6.Bb5+ Bd7 7.e5 Ng4 8.e6 fxe6 9.Ng5 Bxb5 10.Nxe6 Bxd4 11.Nxd8 Bf2+ 12.Kd2 Be3+ draw by prepetual check. I believe that it was Seirawan who played this line first.|
|Sep-09-05|| ||Greginctw: <misguidedaggression> your game has a slight flaw. Black has a blatant exchange sacrifice (unless i copied the game wrong) at move 15. Rxc3! |
It makes no sense that she missed it because isnt that the whole purpose of moving the rook to c8? Its like playing e4, e5, qh5, nf6, and missing qxp+.
Anyway no matter what you do you have a worse position
A) Bxg7 Nxd3+
B) Bxc3 Nxa2+ Kb2 Nxc3 Then if Qxc3 the bishop on h6 is hanging if the Bxg7 then the Knight takes the rook with check. if the king taks the knight on C3 then it is mate (double discovered check. Not to be a jerk and ruin things, but black did have a tactical shot that could have won him the game.
|Sep-27-05|| ||capanegra: <georgeIV> <ionnn> <e4Newman> After a little more study of the 6.e5 line, I arrived to the conclusion that 6…dxe5 is the best reply. In case of 7.dxe5 Qxd1+ 8.Kxd1 Black may continue with 8…Rd8+ 9.Bd3 Ne8 (and not Nd5 nor Ng4). Here are some examples with that line, where Black avoids any danger in the opening:|
Kozomara vs Pachman, 1963
Gligoric vs Keene, 1971
J Fichtl vs Hort, 1972
On the other hand, Black can also play 8…Nh5, which I presume it is even better than 8…Rd8+. Here I found some games which prove its validity:
M Gonzalez Angel vs Dzindzichashvili, 1976
Ljubojevic vs Timman, 1980
Velimirovic vs J Rukavina, 1981
|Sep-27-05|| ||e4Newman: it was good to see the <J Fichtl vs Hort, 1972> game played out to a win|
|Nov-15-05|| ||trumbull0042: I like this opening. f4 is always a refreshing move.|
|Jan-22-06|| ||philbill: "I play the Pirc all the time and I love it, but I think that is the biggest knock on it: it gives white latitude to choose the kind of game he wants" - Keypusher|
One could come to the same conclusion about all of black's main tries against 1.e4. For example, the Closed Sicilian is not going to give a keen Dragon or Najdorf specialist the kind of game he wants, and the Scotch Four Knights or similar is going to make it tough for black to find winning chances if white is happy to draw and knows the system well. Similarly, white can try 2.Qe2 (or the Rubinstein) against the French; or he may prefer to blast things open into an IQP position with 3.dxe5 dxe5 4.c4. So, stylistically white can pick and choose against ANY response to 1.e4, not just the Pirc (Where in fact white has only three or four main systems that black must be ready for).
I think the Pirc is underestimated below IM level, partly because a lot of weekend tournament players play it badly, and partly because there seem to be a lot of quick white wins at club level, based around cheap tricks (often involving a bishop on c4, it seems). With enough preparation, however, I believe it is a good choice for anyone, and certainly anyone below master strength. As someone currently learning the Pirc as a secondary opening, I do not particularly fear the Austrian Attack. The H-pawn sac, sac, mate idea can usually be repelled, too. White's best idea, in my opinion, is to be content with a smaller, positional edge, usually based around the Classical system, 4.Nf3.
I'm aware that the above quotation was posted over a year ago, but I wanted to make my point nonetheless. Give the Pirc a chance is what I say - and wipe that smug smile off your opponent's face! :)
|Feb-13-06|| ||misguidedaggression: <Greginctw> Sorry for the late reply. I can't believe I missed that. To be honest, I think after 15...Rxc3 16.Kb1 White still has some chances without too much of a material deficit. I really don't think either of us had a firm grasp of this opening. (Especially considering that I was making it up as I went along.) I have since switched to 4.Bg5 or 4.f3 against the Pirc.|
|Feb-17-06|| ||misguidedaggression: Ok, I looked at that again, after 15...Rxc3 16.bxc3 Nxa2 17.Kb2 Nxc3 18.Qxc3 Bxh6 material is even: 2& for . The black dark square bishop is unopposed, but the white pawn storm is strong, while black's queenside attack is still non-existant. I didn't calculate any exchange sacs, because after 11...b6 the black queen doesn't have the mobility to carry on the attack.|
|Feb-18-06|| ||e4Newman: i still find 4.f4 useful|
|May-10-06|| ||WTHarvey: Here are 10 traps and zaps in the Pirc, Austrian Attack (B09): http://www.wtharvey.com/b09.html What's the best move?|
|May-12-06|| ||soughzin: I'm starting to finally decide on a system against the pirc and have been looking into the austrian a lot lately. I'm not expert or anything but looking at fritz I notice in the drawing line on move 10 white can play Nxb5 instead if he/she wishes to avoid a draw and it lists it at .8 or so, while Qxg4 bounces around even. Anyway, after Qa5+ c3 Qxb4 we're still in book and white chooses between Qxg4 and Nxe6 and many moves and ideas for each. I guess the point is if you're white and black wants the draw this is something you can do to avoid it.|
|Jun-01-06|| ||WannaBe: When I'm playing black w/ Pirc. I do not have a good record against the Aust. Attack. =(|
That pawn front just look and feels so intimidating.
|Jun-01-06|| ||Kings Indian: <WannaBe> Just try to get in e5 before white does and you'll be fine.|
|Jun-01-06|| ||Kings Indian: Opening of the day! Well, I think this is a great opening for white. Just play an early e5, that's what i hated as bLACK. But if i got e5 in before white then it was an even game. If you play the pirc, you have to spend a lot of time studying it. I don't like studying openings so i quit the Pirc.|
|Oct-18-07|| ||Benzol: The following line http://www.chessgames.com/perl/ches... doesn't look like a great one to play if you're White.|
|Dec-08-07|| ||erad1288: anyone notice that over the last 3 or 4 years black has been scoring very well in the line e4 d6, d4 Nf6, Nc3 Nbd7, f4 e5, Nf3 c6, Bc4 exd4, Qxd4 d5? I have a game played today by an 1800 against a 2225 which ended with black winning a full piece and game in 17 moves. It was total carnage. Here's the full game|
[White "Rodriguez, Eric"]
[Black "Ahn, Ju Hyung"]
1. e4 d6 2. d4 Nf6 3. Nc3 Nbd7 4. f4 e5
5. Nf3 c6 6. Bc4 exd4 7. Qxd4 d5 8. Bb3 Bc5 9. Qd3 dxe4 10. Nxe4 Qe7 11. Nfd2
O-O 12. Kf1 Re8 13. Nxf6+ Nxf6 14. Nf3 Bf5 15. Qd1 Rad8 16. Qe1 Qxe1+ 17. Nxe1
|Jul-20-08|| ||refutor: in the draw line
1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 g6 4.f4 Bg7 5.Nf3 c5 6.Bb5+ Bd7 7.e5 Ng4 8.e6 fxe6 9.Ng5 Bxb5 10.Nxe6 Bxd4 11.Nxd8 Bf2+ 12.Kd2 Be3+ = as in Sax vs Seirawan, 1988
instead, isn't 10. Nxb5 Qa5+ 11. c3 Qxb5 12. Qxg4 cxd4 13. Nxe6 Qc4 just good for White?
|Jul-20-08|| ||micartouse: <instead, isn't 10. Nxb5 Qa5+ 11. c3 Qxb5 12. Qxg4 cxd4 13. Nxe6 Qc4 just good for White?>|
It's weird. The database has all the games fizzling out to draws, so there might be some deep reasons why White can't get an advantage in top flight chess. But at least it's a game.
|Apr-23-10|| ||rapidcitychess: <WannaBe> I love playing against this!
Just play for c5.
By the way, are you comfartable with the Benoni? You will often get a Benoni against the 4/3 pawns attack.
|Nov-02-11|| ||jbtigerwolf: I've been playing through this version, but with Bc4 then f4. White needs to be careful. It's very easy to attack too much and give away material when you think you have him. It's easy to neglect development, as you appear 1000 miles ahead.|
Black gets cramped at the start but is capable of fighting his way out. It's not clear cut. I think with practice White will smile inside every time Black plays the Pirc, but it does need some bookwork.
I'm also thinking Pirc players are lazy, as it seems White sets up how the game goes.
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