< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 20 OF 21 ·
|Apr-24-09|| ||MaxxLange: This is the best opening against guys like me - 1 e4 players who get impatient and try to break things through by force when you really can't do that|
|Apr-24-09|| ||ray keene: i reckon i have 25 black caro games in the database with more to come -so perhaps i will be up there with flohr , karpov and miles as practitioners with the black pieces in the near future.|
|Apr-24-09|| ||parisattack: <HSOL: I consider c5 to be inferior to Bf5 but several strong players recommend it.>|
Me, too - especially if white has not played Nc3 in front of his c-pawn the double 'c' move by black looks fishy. but apparently black is OK.
Botvinnik used it against Tal in their 1961 match.
For white I like: 1. e4, c6; 2. c4, d5 and not transposing to a Panov. 1.e4, c6; 2. Nc3, d5; 3. Qf3 is also interesting...
|Apr-25-09|| ||James Demery: Thanks for responding whiskey. As to the Sicilian I would not say that I`m familiar with it. I was using a Philidor-Pirc type setup against 1e4 and not doing too well so I thought I would try the Sicilian , but I didn`t have good results with it either. The CK doesn`t look as if it has as many variations to learn, but I had always heard it was drawish. I found your comments about your success against higher rated players interesting and am hoping maybe it isn`t so drawish. One other thing is that at my level 1300-1500 I`m apt to lose no matter what opening I`m using. ;)|
|Apr-25-09|| ||James Demery: Thanks for everyones comments and advice.|
|Apr-25-09|| ||ray keene: botvinnik has 40 caro-k games with black on the database here-i think theres something wrong with the stats!|
|Apr-25-09|| ||ray keene: and smyslov has over 50 with black here! something needs revision|
|Apr-25-09|| ||James Demery: On the Botvinnik page it has him playing the CK 41 times. His record is 12 wins 8 losses 21 draws. Are you saying he had more games or fewer?|
|Apr-25-09|| ||parisattack: <James Demery: Thanks for responding whiskey. As to the Sicilian I would not say that I`m familiar with it. I was using a Philidor-Pirc type setup against 1e4 and not doing too well so I thought I would try the Sicilian , but I didn`t have good results with it either. The CK doesn`t look as if it has as many variations to learn, but I had always heard it was drawish. I found your comments about your success against higher rated players interesting and am hoping maybe it isn`t so drawish. One other thing is that at my level 1300-1500 I`m apt to lose no matter what opening I`m using. ;)>|
You can always 'mix-it-up' with the C-K. The Bronstein/Larsen variations with 1. e4, c6; 2. d4, d5; 3, Nc3, de:;4. Ne4, Nf6; 5. Nf6: and either ...ef: or ...gf:. Or, as I mentioned above 1. e4, c6; 2. d4, Na6 or 1. e4, c6; 2. d4, d5; 3. Nc6, b5. Also, 1. e4, c6; 2. d4, g6 is a hybrid C-K/Robatsch.
It is obviously an excellent Defence - but I just can't warm to it, not enough pawn center for me. But who am I against Botvinnik, Petrosian and Karpov!
|Apr-25-09|| ||whiskeyrebel: My heart is with the Modern defense. It just "looks right" to me and was my favorite for most of my life, but after witnessing the results of my playing the solid CK I can't go back. I actually am nutty enough to envision Karpov smiling over my position at times. He is there with me in endgames in which I'm pressing home a victory based on winning white's over extended h-pawn. He smiles as I kick open the center on an unprepared white with c5 in the classical. He nods as I plant a rock solid knight on d5 against the P/B attack. As I steer my way through the minefield of the advance variation and equalize against a stronger rated foe, in my minds eye he is giving me a thumbs up like "the Fonz" on that stinky old TV show.|
|Apr-25-09|| ||Open Defence: Karpov as Fonzie ? now thats some imagination :)|
|Apr-25-09|| ||ray keene: just under the ck diagram in this section there is a list of what appears to be the top three ck practitioners with black-defined as those who have played it most -namely flohr, karpov and miles. i am suggesting that these stats are wrong since both botvinnik and smyslov have far more games in this database as black using the ck than all of those three! i think the stats need revision.|
|Apr-25-09|| ||MaxxLange: <ray keene> database management is never done! there are so many ways that errors can come in|
did you ever play that Caro/Modern hybrid - Gugiendze variation(?) - supposedly White's move order 3 Nd2 was intended as an anti-move against this - why?
|Apr-25-09|| ||ray keene: yes once or twice and i dont like it much for black-why white shd try to avoid it is a mystery to me-btw i just checked and petrosian has around 100 black games on the database here as black in the ck!|
|Apr-25-09|| ||euripides: <ray> the stats on this page probably don't include the main variations, which will have their own classifications; this page probably captures the games that start 1.e4 c6 but avoid the main lines.|
|Apr-25-09|| ||euripides: ... or it may catch games in the main variations but with unusual move orders.|
|Apr-25-09|| ||MaxxLange: The only difference I can think of between 1 e4 c6 2 d4 d5 3 Nc3 g6 and 3 Nd2 g6, is that, in the latter case, White can play c4. But is that a good move? Maybe it transposes to a bad Pribyl for Black or something like that|
I could never see what White has to fear from 1 e4 c6 2 d4 d5 3 Nc3 g6 either, but there is a lot of stuff I don't understand in chess :)
|Apr-26-09|| ||ganstaman: <MaxxLange: The only difference I can think of between 1 e4 c6 2 d4 d5 3 Nc3 g6 and 3 Nd2 g6, is that, in the latter case, White can play c4.>|
Well, if you mean c3 instead of c4, then I'm pretty sure you'd be right. Agasint the fianchettoed bishop on the h8-a1 diagonal, pawns at b2, c3, and d4 have a nice blunting effect. So the Nd2 still protects e4 without getting in the way of the other pawns.
|Apr-26-09|| ||blacksburg: i find it strange that Topalov and Cheparinov have been playing this lately. the caro is certainly a good opening, but is not necessarily a <play for a win with black> opening. it seems a little bit contradictory to their style, IMHO.|
|Apr-26-09|| ||whiskeyrebel: The advance as played by GM's according to Karpov is a hairy, wild beast. Molly-coddles had best steer away from the complications of the current theoretical battles. This is good as far as I'm concerned. I'm ready to pluck my eyes out over the glut of GM Najdorf Sicilians. I'm not a huge fan of Topy and his little pal but give them credit for stirring up interest in the CK.|
|May-09-09|| ||James Demery: I was curious about the CK`s reputation for drawishness in light of my recent posts and I thought I would look at the results of players that play this defense in W-L-D. |
I`m sure that the situation at the moment in the Tournament they were in had some bearing at times , the players were aiming for a draw. Petrosian had a reputation as a drawmaster. Also Karpov would try to do most of his damage with White and try to draw with Black. Still, I thought the numbers were interesting. These numbers were based on this database.
|May-09-09|| ||karnak64: <James Demery> - fascinating. Thanks for working this up.|
|Jul-03-09|| ||Scarblac: @Ray Keene: this is the page for ECO B10. B11 to B19 are also the Caro-Kann, as you know of course. The other codes have their own pages, and the statistics for all of them together aren't added up to be shown here.|
It's a flaw of the system, but I don't think much can be done about it. It's the way the database works.
|Aug-23-09|| ||BotanicalKnight: I like the Caro-Kann a lot.|
|Dec-21-09|| ||Alphastar: Today I played a most odd Caro-Kann game: 1. e4 c6 2. Ne2!? d5 3. e5 c5 4. b4!? Nc6!? 5. bxc5 d4!? and an intriguing struggle ensued.|
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