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|Dec-09-05|| ||suenteus po 147: <WannaBe> I've had some good experience with the Panov-Botvinnik as black. In fact, I'm undefeated in it. Of course years of experience playing the QGD has helped, I think.|
|Dec-09-05|| ||Averageguy: Hello, I was wondering as an aggressive player who dislikes opening theory which line is more for me as white, the main-line Caro-Kann or the Panov-Botvinnik attack?|
|Dec-09-05|| ||Gypsy: <Averageguy> Panov. The feel of that is similar to lots of other IQP positions. And attacking players find the main-line quite anoying.|
|Dec-09-05|| ||Averageguy: <Gypsy> Thanks for your reccomendation, I'll give it a go. However, I don't really agree that aggresive players get annoyed with the main-line. I've won some good games with it (best was a win against my 1988 rated club champ).|
|Dec-09-05|| ||Gypsy: <Averageguy> If you are an attacking player, how can you go wrong following Alekhine (or Tal). Good luck!|
As for the main-line: My father played CK all his life to the great chagrin of his club- and tournament buddies. I am glad to hear that the main-line does not get under your skin; many an 1.e4 attacking player groans quietly when consenting to enter it for the umpteenth time.
|Dec-09-05|| ||Akavall: Funny, but I think exchange variation of Caro-Kann gives white a pretty good attack. While black has to move pawns on the Queen's side, white just sets up an attack. It is definitly good for someone who doesn't like theory.|
|Dec-09-05|| ||Gypsy: <Akavall> Yes, you either get a Catalan- or Carlsbad pawn structure with collors reversed. It generally is a pleasant game for Black as long as he/she know what they are doing. For instance in the Carlsbad, as Black I would forego a minority attack on the Q-side in favor of f6 and e5. (Even without the f6, e5 brings about a rough equality.)|
|Dec-10-05|| ||Akavall: If Black goes for g6 line, then there is no attack. My guess is that white should start playing on the queen's side, before Black can play f6, e5. If white just sits there black will get a really good play. Honestly, I am not sure what is a right plan for white, people play g6 line very rarely against me.|
|Jun-11-06|| ||e4Newman: i love this as white, although I don't see the ck as much as other kp defenses|
as white, i always exchange and push c4
there are other openings i'll play white or black, such as ruy lopez, but not this one
|Aug-06-06|| ||soughzin: This looks more like a queen's gambit than most e4 stuff. I'd like to avoid all the normal caro stuff but do you think a solely e4 player would feel uncomfortable in the resulting positions?|
|Aug-06-06|| ||euripides: <soughzin> I'm not an e4 player, but I wouldn't have thought so. The isolated queen's pawn positions are generally quite good for launching direct king's side attacks.|
|Dec-10-06|| ||Karpova: <soughzin: This looks more like a queen's gambit than most e4 stuff. I'd like to avoid all the normal caro stuff but do you think a solely e4 player would feel uncomfortable in the resulting positions?>
That's why Karpov likes it so much. He plays the same stuff against 1.d4|
|Dec-10-06|| ||Eyal: <soughzin: This looks more like a queen's gambit than most e4 stuff> Or like a Nimzo-Indian - after 6.Nf3 Bb4.|
|Dec-10-06|| ||whiskeyrebel: I'm really happy playing this as black. People who play this as white seem to expect that I'm going to crumble in fear of an attack. I'm cautious and work towards a superior endgame. My W-L ratio against players in the 1800-2200 range as black is good. There are some traps you need to prepare for if you play this as black though, uhh..and I'm not sure if I'd feel as confident playing somebody over 2200. Then again, I'd try it anyway. Plenty of GM'S are happy with blacks prospects. Book up, my C-K friends.|
|Apr-01-07|| ||gambitfan: Opening of the day (01/04/2007)|
|Apr-01-07|| ||Kwesi: Maybe its an April Fool because it actually could be a Nimzo Indian instead of a Caro-Kann.|
|Apr-09-07|| ||gambitfan: This opening is very important for the theme of the ISOLANI (Isolated Pawn).|
Game Collection: ISOLANI
|Sep-15-07|| ||WTHarvey: Here are some crucial positions in miniature Panov-Botvinnik games: http://www.wtharvey.com/b14.html|
|Jun-02-08|| ||Alphastar: I really don't like the lines starting with 5. ..e6. It's too passive for me I guess. I much prefer 5. ..Nc6, usually followed by 6. Nf3 Bg4.|
|May-16-10|| ||libertyjack: What's the fundamental difference between the classical Panov-Botvinik attack and the accelerated version ?|
|Jul-30-10|| ||libertyjack: Someone has an idea about the difference between the accelerated and the classic panov-botvinik attack?|
|Feb-04-11|| ||cuppajoe: <libertyjack>
They usually transpose, although the accelerated Panov has some independent lines of unclear theoretical value for White.
The accelerated Panov position can also arise from an English opening (1.c4 c6 2. e4) which is handy if White doesn't fancy facing the Slav.
If you're asking what the point of 2.c4 is from the usual CK move order, I have no idea. I suppose it avoids sidlines like 2...f6 and 2...d6, but a) Black can just play those anyway and b) they're probably garbage. If any of my opponents want to play those, I'm perfectly happy to let them.
|Feb-04-11|| ||acirce: I'm not sure what the accelerated Panov is, but if it is independent enough to deserve a name of its own, wouldn't it be that White doesn't play d4 transposing to the regular Panov?|
1.e4 c6 2.c4 d5 3.exd5 cxd5 4.cxd5 (instead of 4.d4) Nf6 and now 5.Bb5+, 5.Qa4+ or 5.Nc3.
5.Nc3 can still transpose or otherwise lead to similar positions, but in the other lines White tries to keep his extra pawn, although it's not a very strong one. Personally I'm not scared of those lines at all as Black.
(As I said I am not sure what this is actually called. Schandorff calls it the "pseudo-Panov", Houska "Panov's little brother".)
|Nov-02-11|| ||jbtigerwolf: Not keen on this. A knight in front of the isolani pawn is quite powerful. I can see the concept of open lines and space, but it's suspect for novices. I've tried an isolani once or twice and lost the pawn and then the game shortly after.|
I think the key when black plays something annoying like c6 or e6 is to play Nf3. My limited experience of these wretched openings is that they ruin my center and stunt the flow of my game.
|Jul-02-13|| ||Phony Benoni: <"This line of play, introduced into modern tournament practice by Dr. Alekhine, was worked out and analyzed in detail by the Moscow chess player Panov in the Russian magazine "64" in 1930. The aim of this formation is to develop the bishop with tempo after ...dxc4, or at a convenient time by means of c4-c5 to begin a battle of three pawns against two on the Queen side."> -- Abram Isaakovich Rabinovich, quoted in "Chess Review" for April, 1933, as part of the notes for Riumin vs Kan, 1932.|
Perhaps the Alekhine game is Alekhine vs Tartakower, 1925. There were priors, but many of them were transpositions from queenside openings.
Going through the 1933 issues of "Chess Review", it is clear that the PB was already highly thought of--though not known by that name, of course.
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