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Apr-12-07
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| ganstaman: I was playing this in some online blitz when black pulled out a weird looking 3rd move. 1. e4 e5 2. f4 exf4 3. Bc4 Qg5?!
I can't find anywhere that this has been played before, but it did throw me off at first. Rather harmless though, as black doesn't actually threaten to win 2 pawns but instead falls further behind in space and development. 4. Nf3 Qxg2 5. Rg1 Qh3 6. Bxf7+ (regaining the pawn as 6...Kxf7 loses to 7. Ng5+) We continued with black trapping his own queen: 6...Kd8 7. d4 Nf6 8. Nc3 d6 9. Bxf4 Bg4 10. Rg3 and black loses a piece at least. |
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| Apr-23-07 |
| ongyj: <ganstaman> excellent punishment follow up against 3...Qg5?! ! But pardon me that I can't visualise an immediate loss of piece after say 10...Bxf3 11.Qxf3 Qc8 (a possible combination with 12.e5 ?) Just to say that again, I'm more of an opening explorer than a player:) All comments and criticisms greatly welcomed. |
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Apr-23-07
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| ganstaman: <ongyj> Don't worry, I can't see how black loses a piece either. This means that either black really doesn't lose a piece, or you've tricked me into not seeing the line I saw some weeks ago. But as long as white is still winning in this line, I will not have to fear 3...Qg5 (or look for other continuations). |
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| Apr-24-07 |
| ongyj: Yes, actually auto play from programmes suggest that White's absolutely winning from there in most continuations. Like I said earlier, great punishment follow up against 3...Qg5, in my opinion, akin to the "refutation" against 3...Qg5. Well done!- and thanks for sharing it. |
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May-10-07
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| ganstaman: More fun with the KG:
On Sept. 21, 2006, I said: <Still tempted by: 1. e4 e5 2. f4 exf4 3. Kf2 ... But there's no way I could play that.> I lied. Online G/10, I have the white pieces (at least at the start of the game -- I lose a few along the way ;) ) 1. e4 e5 2. f4 exf4 3. Kf2 Qh4+ 4. g3 fxg3+ 5. Kg2 Bd6 (<Eh, doesn't look so good. Black definitely wants to play ...d5 or ...d6, hitting the center and freeing the light square bishop upon my almost defenseless kingside.>) 6. Nf3 Qg4 (<First person to not take my e-pawn.>) 7. h3 (<I'm not going to allow any nasty tactics with ...gxh2.>) Qg6 8. e5 Be7 9. d4 f6 10. Bd3 f5 11. Bf4 d6 12. Qe1 (<This eventually has to set up a useful pin, right?>) dxe5 13. Nxe5 Qb6 14. Be3 (<I don't love this move, but I can't give up my d-pawn. Letting his queen in like that doesn't seem so great, and 14. c3 keeps my queen's knight away from the action-to-be.>) Nf6 15. Nc3 f4 (<So much for that d-pawn. 16. Bg1 looks too cramped and passive.>) 16. Bxf4 Qxd4 17. Rd1 (<??Oh well, so sometimes I'm blind. Sounds like a good time for a diagram.>) 
click for larger view
17...Qxf4 18. Rf1 Qb4 19. a3 (<Please take on b2, pleeeeeeeeease.>) Qxb2 (<??Yippee!>) 20. Ng6 hxg6 (<Hmmm, maybe 20...Nc6 kills this idea? Didn't think of it until now. 20...hxg6, on the other hand, walks into mate.>) 21. Bxg6+ Kf8 22. Rd8+ Bxd8 23. Qe8# White mates 1-0
click for larger viewTell me that doesn't look nice. Down a rook, knight, bishop, and 2 pawns. On black's queenside, there sits undeveloped a rook, knight, bishop, and 3 pawns. The KG's rules. |
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May-10-07
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| ganstaman: Just realized -- in my game above, even if 20...Nc6 stops my mating plans, I have 21. Nxh8 which at least puts me better off than I was before 20. Ng6. |
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Jul-23-07
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| whiteshark: Thought I’d try the King’s Gambit, but became demoralised when I went a pawn down on move two. |
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| Sep-30-07 |
| alec94x: "1. e4 e5 2. f4 exf4 3. Bc4 Qg5?!
I can't find anywhere that this has been played before" Ganstaman,
I played against 3.Qg5 once in 2006 but my reply 4.Qf3 isn't as good as 4.Nf3 White comes out ahead if he takes with with Qxg2 then 5.Rg1 Qh3 and now 6 Bxf7+ and he can't play Kxf7 because of 7.Ng5+ his Queen would be toast if Black plays 6.Ke7 instead of taking the Bishop 7.d4 Qh6 8.Bc4 d6 9.Nc3 and White's better........ [Event "Instant Chess Game"]
[Site "Instant Chess"]
[Date "2006"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Alec"]
[Black "Franco Bolo"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "C33"]
1. e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Bc4 Qg5 4. Qf3 Bd6 5.Nc3 c6 6.d4 Bb4 7.Bd2 Bxc3 8.Bxc3 d6 9.O-O-O f6 10. Ne2 Bg4 11.Qf2 f3+ 12.Bd2 Qg6 13.Nf4 Qh6 14. g3 g5 15.Ne6 Kd7 16.d5 Na6 17 Bxa6 bxa6 18.h4 Bxe6 19.dxe6+ Ke7 20. hxg5 Qf8 21.Qxf3 Kd8 22.Ba5+ Kc8 23.Qf5 Kb8 24. Rd3 Qe7 25. Rb3+ Kc8 26. Rd1 Rb8 27. Bb4 c5 28. Bxc5 Rxb3 29.Bxd6 Qg7 30.e7+ Kb7 31.Qd7+ Kb6 32.Qc7+ Kb5 33. e8=Q+ 1-0 |
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Sep-30-07
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| ganstaman: <alec94x> While 4. Nf3 does seem better, I do like the look of your position anyway. White just dominates in development and central space. That's what makes the King's Gambit so great, and 3...Qg5 not so great :) With a quick look, I do have two questions about your moves, though. Why not 7. Bxf4? Also, did you consider the consequences of 12...exf2? |
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Sep-30-07
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| ganstaman: Edit that last question, it should be 12...fxe2. |
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| Oct-28-07 |
| ongyj: 1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Bc4 d5! is indeed a very good move. If White goes 4.Bxd5 White is likely to lose the Bishop pair early, with slightly worse pawn structure. Things can get exciting after 4.exd5 Nf6 5.Nc3 c6!? 6.Qf3 [Not 6.dxc6 Nxc6, giving Black strong control of d4.] g5, I slightly prefer Black. To conclude, I think 3...d5! might be part of the main reason why 3.Nf3 is more popular than 3.Bc4... |
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| Nov-02-07 |
| MaxxLange: I think it would be fun to prepare Tartakower's 3. Be2, just to watch people look at you like you are insane when you play it. This was his secret weapon for the 1924 New York tournament, as in Tartakower vs Bogoljubov, 1924
and several other games. |
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| Nov-02-07 |
| ongyj: <MaxxLange> Interesting sharing. Considering the fact that 3.Be2 develops and avoids the nasty 3.Bc4 d5!, it might be a playable alternative to 3.Nf3, which somehow, I just don't like it. Thank you. |
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Nov-02-07
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| whiteshark: There is another unusual, but poison move, <3.Qf3>, but it's intention is obvious. |
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| Nov-21-07 |
| Kings Indian: Hm, yeah I think I may play 3.Be2 myself XD I just started playing the 3.Bc4 KG a few days ago but d5 ruins me most of the time. I'm desperately trying to find an opening that I can play for the next tournament, I abandoned 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 because I love the f pawn too much to block it. Nf3 is just meh... Too much theory. |
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| Nov-21-07 |
| MaxxLange: Search for Tartakower's games in the 1924 New York tournament. The idea seems to be to get a mobile pawn center. Alekhine seems to neutralize the 3.Be2 idea, and I think it kind of disappeared from top level chess after that tournament, but it's surely good enough for a spin at the amateur level. |
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| Nov-26-07 |
| breathweapon: 1 E4 E5 2 F4 PxP 3 Bc4 D5 is ?! against 3 Bc4, because 3 Bc4 is designed to prevent 3 ... D5 where 3 Nf3 is not, and if black chooses 3 ... D5 it's no longer a pawn break but a counter gambit. Either 4 BxP Nf6 5 Nc3 or 5 Qf3 consolidates. 4 PxP Nf6 6 Nc3 C6 and now 7 Qf3 followed by H3 !? is AMAZING, because white has the option of 0-0 and a traditional KGA attack or 0-0-0 and a kingside pawnstorm with black's light squared bishop being neutered. The critical line is 4 PxP C6 5 Nc3 Qch 6 Kf1 F3 7 E3 PxPch 8 KxP, which is in white's favor but difficult to convert.
The line can be avoided altogether with 5 Qf3 where ... Qch 6 G3 PxP 7 PxP opens the H file for the rooks with 0-0-0 and the G pawn marching up the board or transposes into other lines. I'll play against 3 ... D5 all day, I think it's even worse than 3 ... Qh4ch, where black actually has winning chances. 3 ... Nf6 is superior to 3 ... D5 because the move order is capable of the D5 break with out investing a pawn, depending on white's system. I recommend Qf3, H3!? and either 0-0 or 0-0-0 based on the situation over Fischer's Bc3 and the modern D4. Qf3, H3!? turns the D pawn break into a counter gambit and restricts black's queen side minor pieces as well as offers 0-0-0. There's also a lot to be said about D3 and Pd5xPc6 systems that go 2 pawns up and adopt a hedgehog position followed by 0-0-0 and a king side pawn storm. The worst line that I know of for white is 3 ... Nf6 4 Nc3 NxP 5 BxPch KxB 6 NxN D5 where 7 Qh5ch? loses to ... G6 after 8 Qe5? PxN! 9 QxR? Qh4ch followed by mate. 7 Qh5ch G6 8 Ng5ch also drops the knight after a Be7. I recommend 7 Nf2!? C6 8 Qf3 Bd6 9 Ne2 where white has to react to Re8 with 0-0 before Qe7. The other line is 7 ... Qe7ch 8 Ne2 Pf3 9 PxP which is awkward for both sides, but I believe white has an advantage with D4, H4, Bg5, Qd2, 0-0-0 against black's bad queen side pieces and exposed king. You also need to be aware of 7 ... Bd6? where 8 Qh5ch G6 9 QxPch is the reason for 7 ... C6 Just don't fall for 9 ... Be6 10 QxP Re8 because even after 11 Ne2 Qe7 white is still in a precarious position. 10 Qf3 is sensible, where I believe ... Re8 isn't a serious threat after Ne2 and 0-0. 3 Be2 is TERRIBLE ... D5! equalizes and even the ... Qh4ch followed with G5 leaves white with both an inferior and dangerous position compared to Bc4 and no winning chances. The unorthodox 3 Bb5 however is worth investigating, where Bb5 is suppose to prevent the D pawn break entirely with the pin or cause black to over extend his queenside. I think A6, B5, Qh4ch Be7 would have to be in black's favor, but Nf3 and Qe2 followed with D3, C3 and A5 is fascinating, because while black has more development of the queen side than usual, white has positional counter play on the queen side, which is something it almost never has in the KGA. G5 looks interesting for black with an active light squared bishop, but it's commital and white isn't in bad shape to play either side of the board or both sides of the board at the same time. 3 ... C6 4 Bh4 looks good for white and 3 ... Qg5 is met with 4 Qe2 where either the Knight or the Queen will have been developed with tempo. 3 ... C6 4 Bh4 Nf6 and 5 Nc3 invites complications with ... B5 and E5 3 Bc4 has been so good to me in the past 10 years that I don't see a reason to play 3 Bg5 in a tournament, but at the club I've never been punished for using the 3 Bg5 and Qe2 system and there is 0 theory on it. 3 Bc4 is superior to 3 Nf3,I don't have a norm, but I do have 10 years behind both openings, and I've never seen a reason to play 3 Nf3 when ... D5 equalizes. That's why you play 3 Bc4, there's no easy way for black to equalize. |
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Nov-27-07
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| bystander: <breathweapon, nov-26-07> <1 E4 E5 2 F4 PxP 3 Bc4 D5 is ?! against 3 Bc4, because 3 Bc4 is designed to prevent 3 ... D5> At the moment I am looking how to play the King's gambit with white and I am not sure about the third move: 3. Bc4 or 3. Nf3. In your post, you mentioned some interesting possibilities after 3. Bc4. I was wondering about ... 3 Bc4 d5
Maybe black can prepare playing d5 with 3...c6? Do you have experience with 1. e4 e5 2. f4 ef4x 3 Bc4 c6 |
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| Jan-24-08 |
| FHBradley: Has anyone seen "The King's Gambit for the Creative Aggressor" by Thomas Johansson, published by Kania Verlag in 1998, with a 2nd edition in 2005? Henrik Danielsen mentions this book on his website, saying that Johansson has plenty of new ideas about 3 Bc4. |
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| Sep-17-08 |
| realbrob: Hi everybody. I like to try different openings (usually I'm a 1.e4 player, but I also play 1.d4 quite often and sometimes try 1.c4, the English Opening). Recently I became interested in the King's Gambit (as White, of course) and especially in the line 1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Bc4 (in my country we call it the King's Bishop Gambit, but I don't know if it's the same in English). Usually the line I play (my opponents choose to play) is 1. e4 e5 2. f4 exf4 3. Bc4 Nf6 4. Nc3 c6 5. d4 Bb4 6. e5 Ne4 7. Kf1 Nxc3 8. bxc3 d5 9. exd6 Bxd6 10. Qe2+ but I'm not completely satisfied by the outcome. I don't find a good way to keep the initiative go for White. Probably my fault since I started to study the King's Gambit just a month ago. If someone has any good ideas, they're welcome. |
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| Nov-08-08 |
| Fanacas: The most beautiful of all openings and the only opening who is hardly affected sinds the old times it was createt. |
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| Mar-02-09 |
| FiveofSwords: I never play the king's gambit but I do admire it. I find myself playing against it sometimes, and enjoy that. Unfortunately there seems to be a real lack of interesting ideas that I see from people playing the white side of this gambit. You can't play the king's gambit as white and then play typical moves and hope to get anything but a lost game, you need to play with much more tactical creativity than that and not be afraid of shedding some material for an attack. I think the main reason why this opening hasnt changed much since the old days is because it is extremely rare for the strongest modern players to take it up and contribute to its theory. I dont really know why this is the case but I can say that for myself (not that im anything close to the strongest of modern players) I simply got used to thinking this openign was bad for white very early for some reason before I understood chess very well, and then became quite comfortable and used to different 2nd move options so I just never really thought of taking up this opening. Now I feel rather differently and if someone wanted to make this an important part of their repitore I think it could serve them just fine up to the highest levels of play, so long as they supported it with strong understanding and their own original ideas. |
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| Mar-02-09 |
| FiveofSwords: you guys discussing this line 1e4 e5 2 f4 ef 3 Bc4...I wonder if you have any idea on how to avoid transposition to a typical fischer defense setup vs 3 Nf3 if black simply plays 3...Nc6, which is what I do. the game generally continues like 4 Nf3 g5 and now if 5 h5?! the point of Nc6 is that 5..g5 6 Ng4 Ne5 is clearly in black's favor, while if you just do normal moves like 5 d4 or 0-0 I can just proceed with 5...Bg7, d6, h6, nf6 etc, not having to be tempted to play ...g4 and get some typical fischer defense. so how do you stop this? |
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Mar-13-09
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| Marmot PFL: <FiveofSwords> If you don't want to transpose why play 4 Nf3? 4 d4 looks better so if g5 5 h4 there is no Nf3 to attack with g4 and 5...Bg7 6 hg Qxg5 7 Nge2 and Bxf4 with advantage for white. 3...Nc6 is not accomplishing much here. |
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| Mar-14-09 |
| FiveofSwords: right, i agree 4 d4 seems better and i guess id just play Qh4+ and transpose to the normal stuff. Its funny that I never see d4 tho. Nc6 does accomplish stuff anyway tho, because if white plays this way it seems to me that after I get the Qh5 Bg4 setup the knight is making real theats at d4 and e5. |
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