< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 5 OF 7 ·
|Jun-23-06|| ||DeepBlade: Oh lord, sometimes im so doubious
1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3
Nc6 4.Bc4 h6 5.d3 Bd6 6.O-O
Nf6 7.Nc3 O-O 8.d4 a6<ignore fork> 9.e5<get fork>
b5<the zwichenzug immortal> 10.exf6 Qxf6 11.Bb3<after the fierce exchanges white emerges a piece up!> Re8
12.g3? <the devil made me do it> fxg3 13.Ng5? <oh lord im such a naughty boy> gxh2+ 14.Kh1
Qxd4 15.Bxf7+ <just beat the devil out of it> Kh8 16.Bxe8
hxg5 17.Qh5+ <lay back and enjoy the show> Kg8 18.Bf7+ Kf8
19.Qh8+ Ke7 20.Qe8# 1-0
|Oct-16-06|| ||keypusher: This has probably been pointed out before, but here's the only example I've seen of Fischer playing against his own defense:|
Fischer vs K O Mott Smith, 1964
|Feb-07-07|| ||Haeron: I had a very strange idea in the Fischer Defence once.|
It went 1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 d6 4.b3!?
with the idea of stopping the g-pawn push.
It looks bad to me, but I'm not exactly sure.
|Feb-07-07|| ||tpstar: <Haeron> There are two database games with 4. b3!? and both times Black contested the long diagonal with 4 ... Be7 5. Bb2 Bf6 = M Basman vs A Kolarov, 1971 & L Boros vs H Schild, 1994|
One drawback to the Queenside fianchetto is how the QB no longer pressures the gambit Pawn at f4. It might work better in a Vienna set-up or KGD than the KGA with 3 ... d6.
|Feb-07-07|| ||Zebra: It looks an interesting idea to me. It is certainly playable against the Becker defence (3 ...h6), and it would be interesting to look at how the two positions compare.|
|Aug-17-07|| ||Cactus: 1.e4 e5
Is this sound?
|Aug-18-07|| ||tpstar: <Cactus> That is the Wild Muzio Gambit where White won both games in the database Opening Explorer|
Nowadays Black wouldn't be expected to grab material so greedily, yet here's a counterexample of sorts = S Hartman vs T Palmer, 2006
|Aug-18-07|| ||MaxxLange: <Cactus> White can force a draw in the Muzio after much bloodshed, but risks a loss too much trying for more, if I remember right. I think a lot of the classical king pawn romantic openings kind of died that way. After enough time (like 100 years), correct methods of defense were found, and a lot of lines peter out into draws.|
|Aug-21-07|| ||Ed Trice: I managed to lose one as White, I guess I am just lucky!|
[White "Ed Trice"]
1. e4 e5 2. f4 exf4 3. Nf3 g5 4. Bc4 g4 5. O-O gxf3 6. Qxf3 Qf6 7. e5 Qxe5
8. Bxf7+ Kxf7 9. d4 Qf5 10. Bxf4 Nf6 11. Be5 Qxf3 12. Rxf3 Be7 13. Nc3 d6
14. Bxf6 Bxf6 15. Raf1 Nd7 16. Nd5 Ke8 17. Nxf6+ Nxf6 18. Rxf6 Kd7 19. Rf8 Rxf8
20. Rxf8 c5 21. dxc5 dxc5 22. Rh8 b6 23. Rxh7+ Kd6 24. Rh8 Bb7 25. Rxa8 Bxa8
26. Kf2 Ke5 27. g3 Bd5 28. a3 Ke4 29. h4 Bf7 30. g4 Kf4 31. h5 Kxg4 32. h6 Bg6
33. c3 Kg5 34. Ke3 a6 35. Kf3 Bd3 36. Ke3 Bc2 37. Kd2 Bf5 38. Ke3 a5 39. a4 Kf6
40. Kd2 Ke6 41. c4 Ke5 42. Ke3 Bh7 43. b3 Bg6 44. Ke2 Kd4 45. Kd2 Bf5
46. Ke2 Kc3 47. Ke3 Kxb3 48. Kf4 Bh7 49. Ke5 Kxa4 50. Kf6 Kb4 51. Kg7 Bd3
52. h7 Bxh7 53. Kxh7 Kxc4 54. Kg6 b5 55. Kf5 b4 56. Ke4 b3 57. Ke3 a4
58. Kd2 b2 59. Kc2 a3 60. Kd2 b1=Q 61. Ke3 Qf5 62. Ke2 a2 63. Ke3 a1=Q
64. Ke2 Qd3+ 65. Kf2 Qaf1# 0-1
|Dec-19-07|| ||qskakaley: Okay, I gotta say, I'm lovin' the King's Gambit these days! I think I just graduated from beginner status the other day (in terms of overall chess abiility/strategy) because I've been on a tear lately. I think the key for me was realizing that I can't just shoot for tactics to win material in every situation. I have to sometimes try to understand the position better and then use tactics to earn me a better position, rather than just material. Sounds easy enough, but really KNOWING that has helped me become so much stronger in just a couple games. Anyway, what does this have to do with the KG? Well, I'm a 1.e4 kinda guy, and after learning the Scotch (my first opening when I just started not too long ago) and the Ruy (and no, I'm NOT saying I've learned all there is to learn about the Ruy, obviously I have a LOT more to learn), I have tried to be more adventurous/mix it up a little more. I think I like the KG b/c it seems to lead to very open positions/tactical battles, which I prefer and believe are my strongsuit. Anyway, just had to say, KG, I love you!|
|Dec-31-07|| ||xrt999: CG.com lists 1,112 games in this opening, whereas Chessmaster has 728 games.|
For the beginner, I think that CG showing that Rubinstein vs NN, 1-0 in 13 moves is important, but not at the intermediate to expert level.
That's why I like the CM database in this regard, because it lists only top level games from modern competition. Therefore, of the 728 games in the CM database, the record in this opening is as follows:
To me, saying that the KGA is great for white based on the records from CG is slightly misleading, because the results are skewed with games such as Greco vs NN, 1620. In top level competition from the modern period, black is clearly superior in the KGA.
On a related note, the opening of the day today is "KGA-Fischer's defense", which is what I play almost exclusively against the KG.
Why do you think Fischer accepted the KG, and then played 4...d6? Think about it.
|Dec-31-07|| ||ganstaman: <xrt999> Can you get the average Elo of the white and black players for those games in your database? It may be that white seems to do worse because generally weaker players try the KG (try to create more complications and hope to sneak out with a win whereas stronger players want a more definite advantage and so avoid this opening).|
|Jun-10-08|| ||offtherook: Well, it's not quite the opening of the day, but the Fischer defence to the KGA doesn't seem to have its own page here, so I'll make do with this.|
The Fischer defence seems to me to be easily refuted with 4. h4! By refuted, I don't mean that White will always win, just that Black's goals (establishing the strong kingside pawn chain while avoiding Kiesseritsky) will not be achieved because white has now prevented the pawn chain. But in any case, most people I play don't seem to use 3...d6 as a segue into a true Fischer but just continue on playing other moves, so there is little value for me in the prophylactic 4. h4. I normally play 4. Bc4, so that if 4...g5 5. h4 g4 6. Ng5 and black has problems on f7. That normally doesn't happen, and black just plays moves like Be7, Nf6, 0-0, and returns the pawn, leaving the game more positional than I as a KG fan would like and quite boring.
I would play an immediate 4. d4 to attack the pawn immediately, but when I do that my opponent is more likely to go straight for the pawn chain with 4...g5 and I'm stuck in the regular Fischer, which, while far from a guaranteed Black win, is not particularly fun to play as White.
Apologies for the lengthy post.
|Jun-10-08|| ||ganstaman: <offtherook: Apologies for the lengthy post.>|
Not necessary. In fact, I wish you wrote more (if you had more to say) as this was informative and helpful (so long as it's right, as it seems to be).
|Jun-10-08|| ||offtherook: Of course, another interesting fact is that Fischer did not invent this new defense, as he claimed to. Anderssen vs F Amelung, 1862 is an example of the Fischer defense played about 100 years before Bobby "invented" it in response to thisóSpassky vs Fischer, 1960 loss to Spassky. There are a few others in the CG database from well before Fischer's time as well, so it strikes me as odd that he is credited with (and claimed to) developing a new system against the KGA. |
I've actually been neglecting the KG lately, playing things like Bishop's opening, Scotch, and even Exchange Spanish. Perhaps coincidentally, I have been on a rather astounding losing streak.
|Jul-19-08|| ||madeinholland: Have you people ever tried 4.Bb5+ versus Fischer's defense? I used it in the following game;|
1. e4 e5 2. f4 d6 3. Nf3 exf4 4. Bb5+ Bd7 5. Nc3 a6 6. Bxd7+ Qxd7 7. d4 c6 8.
Bxf4 Be7 9. e5 d5 10. O-O Bb4 11. Na4 Qc7 12. a3 Be7 13. Qd2 c5 14. e6 Qc6 15.
exf7+ Kxf7 16. Ne5+ Ke8 17. Nxc6 bxc6 18. Rfe1 Nf6 19. Bd6 Ra7 20. Bxc5 Rb7 21.
Rxe7+ Rxe7 22. Bxe7 Kxe7 23. Re1+ Kf7 24. Qf4 Nbd7 25. Nc5 Rd8 26. Qc7 Re8 27.
Rxe8 Kxe8 28. Nxd7 Nxd7 29. Qxc6 Ke7 30. Qxd5 Kf6 31. Qxd7 1-0
Rybka even likes it :)
|Aug-04-08|| ||WarmasterKron: How not to play the King's Gambit:
Kron (1458) - NN (1345)
1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 f6? 4.Ne5!? g5??
5.Qh5+ Ke7 6.Qf7+ K6 7.Nc4+ 1-0
I've been playing the KG for a while now, but I don't think I've ever seen a move as poor as 4..g5.
|Dec-18-08|| ||offtherook: Fischer defense the opening of the day again- and it's only been 6 months since its last day at the top. On the rare occasions when I play open game as black, and by an even rarer occasion my opponent plays the king's gambit, I play the fischer defense. It is passive, defensive, and solid- exactly the type of play to drive a KG player stark raving mad. I don't mind it too much as white because there are lines where white can sac a bishop and open up the kingside.|
|Dec-18-08|| ||offtherook: <xrt999: Why do you think Fischer accepted the KG, and then played 4...d6? Think about it.>
He didn't Bobby Fischer never once played the Fischer Defense OTB. He analyzed it and wrote an article claiming to have refuted the King's Gambit, and after that no one played the King's Gambit against him so he never had a chance to use "his" opening OTB. He did, however, play the king's gambit as white himself several times during his career, albeit typically in simuls and usually preferring the 3 Bc4 variations.|
|Feb-18-09|| ||Marmot PFL: <offtherook> This is a tough line to meet. I had a recent game go 1 e4 e5 2 f4 exf4 3 Nf3 d6 4 d4 g5 5 h4 g5 6 Ng1 Qf6 7 Nc3 c6 8 Nge2 Bh6 9 g3 f3 10 Nf4 Qe7. I won after a few mistakes but wasn't even sure I had anything for the pawn for some time.|
|Feb-18-09|| ||IMlday: <MarmotPFL> There is some interesting cg kibitzing on that position in L Day vs L Morin, 1984
I think White's big trump is the space advantage and controlling the timing of opening the position. So I always played 11.Kf2 and gave myself an !|
|Feb-18-09|| ||Marmot PFL: <IMlday> Thanks, Mr. Day, that it what I did too. Followed up with Bd3 and Re1, still it was only when black weakened his queenside pawns and allowed Nd5 that I had anything concrete.|
|Feb-22-09|| ||offtherook: <Marmot> Yes, I know the Fischer defense is very solid. I play it against KG myself as black, just to close up the position and annoy gambiteers.|
As White, I always preferred to play Bc4 before d4, and I didn't generally retreat my knight back to its starting square. To my mind, doing that really kills a lot of the fun (even if it is theoretically the best continuation).
|Dec-19-09|| ||Edwin M: I understand there might be a bust to Fischer's bust in the NIC yearbook 93. Anyone has it and care to elaborate?|
|Dec-20-09|| ||RandomVisitor: Yes, the lines analyzed stem from 1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 d6 <4.Nc3> and there are a sea of variations.|
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