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Apr-26-09
 | | ganstaman: <drukenknight: 3 c3 meets the Philidor; blacks ...Bg4 meets Qb3 problem. A lot of amateurs like to get the early ...Bg4 in this but it is not advisable vs c3. I believe Chigorin championed the early...Bg4 in other variations of the philidor. The following game shows some basic ideas in this version: 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 d6 3. c3 Bg4 4. Qb3 Bxf3 (...b6 maybe the only way to play) 5. Qxb7 Nd7> Yeah, I don't like 3...Bg4 either. 3...Nf6 looks more natural and better. Also, I think 5...Bxe4 should be a better choice for black, or at least it would be my preference. For one thing, it doesn't lose a pawn. |
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| Apr-27-09 | | drukenknight: yes, I think you're right, but a lot of philidor players will play 3...Bg4 so it's useful to know the tactics.. |
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| Apr-27-09 | | drukenknight: Incidentally that last diagram is calling for white's next move, it's fairly interesting.. |
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Apr-28-09
 | | whiteshark: <drukenknight> <5...Bxe4> looks playable to me with - 6.Qxe4 c6 or
- 6.Bb5+ Nd7 7.Qxe4 Ngf6 |
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| May-08-09 | | drukenknight: white: yes as gansta pointed out ...Bxe4 is probably better but most players dont play that either because they are not paying attention or perhaps because it creates no compensation for black whereas the other way at least it messes up whites pawn structure. Perhaps that is the way black thinks? what do you think of last diagram? |
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| May-10-09 | | squizz: The Philidor is very underrated. Black's winning percentage is better than in the Ruy Lopez and is far less complicated. |
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May-10-09
 | | parisattack: I have to like any defense where there is the possibility for black of play on either/both wings - Philidor, Robatsch, Benoni, Kan Sicilian, Dutch... |
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May-16-09
| | parisattack: <squizz: The Philidor is very underrated. Black's winning percentage is better than in the Ruy Lopez and is far less complicated.> I very much agree and lots of unmined territory. The Philidor Files is excellent and so are both the Lion volumes. With Philidor/Lion/Old Indian black has complete repertoire. The Larsen and Antoshin Philidors are very solid and still offer chances to black. I had great luck with the OI, picked it up when Bent Larsen revived it in the 1970s. But cramped positions are not in vogue right now. Piece play and 'irrational' tactics seems to be the deal (Berlin Lopez, Semi-Slav). Even the Sveshnikov has gone to sleep. |
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| May-17-09 | | edbermac: Has anyone come across this variation in the Philidor? 1 e4 e5 2 Nf3 d6 3 d4 Nf6 4 de Ne4 5 Qd5 Nc5 6 Bg5 Be7 7 ed Qd6 8 Nc3 Qd5 9 Nd5 Bd6 10 Be7 NCO gives 10 0-0-0 Nc6 (10...0-0? 11 Be7) My IMac Big Bang Chess program sprang 10 Be7 on me and am wondering if this has been played before. Have not seen it in any books or database files. Anyone want to try it? |
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Jun-12-09
| | parisattack: A new DVD on the Philidor by Shirov - focusing on his 5. g4!? sacrifice. http://www.newinchess.com/Alexei_Sh... |
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| Jun-27-09 | | Arthur.J.Fizelbotom: I often adopt a sort of Sicilian setup as white against the Philidor, since the Sicilian is one of my favorites and I feel comfortable with the positions that arise. Something like 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 exd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 Be7 6.Be3 0-0 7.Qd2 Nbd7 8.f3 c5 8.Nb3 h6 (the move order/moves by black are not really critical; I'm just shooting for Sicilian-like positions) and then castle long and march my pawns on the kingside. Does anyone know if these sorts of ideas have been tried,and if so, what kinds of results? 
click for larger view |
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| Jul-19-09 | | drukenknight: Yet another wandering 3...Bg4 in the Philidor's. My best game of the nite, we got to the diagrammed position with about a minute left for each of us (one second delay). Check it out.. 1. e4 e5
2. Nf3 d6
3. c3 Bg4
4. Qb3 Nf6
5. Qxb7 Nbd7
6. Bb5 Be7
7. h3 (Bc6 better) Be6
8. Ng5 O-O
9. Nxe6 fxe6
10. d3 d5
11. Nd2 Nc5
12. Qc6 a6
13. b4 dxe4 (tripling pawns not good)
14. bxc5 axb5
15. Qxe6+ Kh8
16. dxe4 Bxc5
17. O-O Qd3
18. Qxe5 Bb6
19. Rb1 Rae8
20. Qxb5 Qxc3
21. Qb2 Qd3
22. Qb5 Qd6
23. Kh1 Nxe4
24. Nc4 (a stupid idea) Nxf2+
25. Rxf2 Qd1+
26. Kh2 Bxf2
27. Ba3 Bg1+
28. Kh1
after 28 Kh1 a puzzling situation...?
click for larger view |
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| Aug-26-09 | | timhortons: http://jimwestonchess.blogspot.com/... my game at icc against rodent that was picked up by jimwest and posted in his blog, of course rodent is a stronger player than me. PCG on ICC
Here are a couple of Philidor Counter Gambits, filled with mistakes, from the Internet Chess Club. In the first game, according to Fritz8, Black should have countered 11.Nc3 by playing 11...g6, prepared to answer 12.Nxd5 (12.Nxb5 Na6=) with 12...Qe5 13.Nf4 Nc6 14.Nxe6 Qxe6=. The second game is completely winning for Black after 6...Kxf7 until he loses his queen on move 18. [Event "ICC 5 0 u"] [Site "Internet Chess Club"] [Date "2008.01.11"] [White "timhortonsknigt"] [Black "rodent"] [Result "0-1"] [ICCResult "White forfeits on time"] [WhiteElo "1588"] [BlackElo "2139"] [Opening "Philidor: Philidor counter-gambit, del Rio attack"] [ECO "C41"] [NIC "KP.08"] [Time "01:45:57"] [TimeControl "300+0"] 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 f5 4. dxe5 fxe4 5. Ng5 d5 6. e6 Bc5 7. Nf7 Qf6 8. Bb5+ c6 9. O-O cxb5 10. Nxh8 Bxe6 11. Nc3 Nc6 12. Nxd5 Bxd5 13. Qxd5 Nge7 14. Qxc5 O-O-O 15. Be3 Rd5 16. Qa3 b4 17. Qb3 a5 18. a4 g5 19. c4 Rd3 20. Qc2 Nf5 21. Rad1 Ncd4 22. Bxd4 Nxd4 23. Qb1 Ne2+ 24. Kh1 Rh3 25. Qxe4 Rxh2+ 26. Kxh2 Qf4+ 27. Qxf4 Nxf4, White forfeits. [Event "ICC 5 0 u"][Site "Internet Chess Club"][Date "2008.03.07"][Round "-"][White "timhortonsknigt"][Black "rodent"][Result "1-0"][ICCResult "Black resigns"][WhiteElo "1594"][BlackElo "2139"][Opening "Philidor: Philidor counter-gambit"][ECO "C41"][NIC "KP.08"][Time "01:09:22"][TimeControl "300+0"] 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 f5 4. dxe5 fxe4 5. Ng5 d5 6. Nf7 Kxf7 7. Qh5+ g6 8.Qe2 Nc6 9. Nc3 Nxe5 10. Be3 Bg4 11. f3 exf3 12. gxf3 Nxf3+ 13. Kf2 d4 14.Rd1 Qh4+ 15. Kg2 Qh3+ 16. Kf2 dxe3+ 17. Qxe3 Bd6 18. Bxh3 Bxh3 19. Qxf3+ Bf520. Qd5+ Kg7 21. Qd4+ Nf6 22. Nd5 Rhf8 23. Nxf6 Rxf6 24. Rhe1 Bxc2+ 25. Kg2 Bxd1 26. Qxd1 Raf8 27. Qd4 Kg8 28. Qd5+ R8f7 29. Qxb7 Rf2+ 30. Kg1 Rxh2 31.Rf1 Rh1+ 32. Qxh1 Bc5+ 33. Kg2, Black resigns. |
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Aug-26-09
| | ganstaman: <Arthur.J.Fizelbotom: I often adopt a sort of Sicilian setup as white against the Philidor, since the Sicilian is one of my favorites and I feel comfortable with the positions that arise. Something like 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 exd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 Be7 6.Be3 0-0 7.Qd2 Nbd7 8.f3 c5 8.Nb3 h6 (the move order/moves by black are not really critical; I'm just shooting for Sicilian-like positions) and then castle long and march my pawns on the kingside. Does anyone know if these sorts of ideas have been tried,and if so, what kinds of results? > I realize this post is from a while ago, and I actually don't know how games like this have gone. However, based on the diagram, I much prefer white. The d6 pawn is very weak, as is the d5 square. White can easily put pressure down this file and make use of d5 with a knight perhaps. The only way I'd be ok with black is if you can safely play ...d6-d5 at some point, which should make your problems there disappear. |
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| Dec-22-09 | | rustyrook: Hey guys who is better in this variation? 1 e4 e5 2 Nf3 d6 3 d4 Nf6 4 Nc3 Nb8d7 5 Bc4 Be7 6 Ng5 o-o 7 Bxf7ch
Rxf7 8 Ne6 Qe8 9 Nxc7 Qd8 10 Nxa8 b5. I think blacks lead in development gives him good compensation but he has to waste time capturing the Knight. Will appreciate any comments/analysis. |
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| Dec-22-09 | | rustyrook: It appears that white can snatch the b pawn! 11 dxe Nxe5 12 Nxb5 Qa5ch 13 Nc3
Bb7 14 f3 Bxa8.Or can black play 14-- Nxe4 here?!Needs computer on this! |
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Dec-22-09
| | parisattack: <rustyrook: It appears that white can snatch the b pawn! 11 dxe Nxe5 12 Nxb5 Qa5ch 13 Nc3 Bb7 14 f3 Bxa8.Or can black play 14-- Nxe4 here?!Needs computer on this!> Interesting line, theoretically crucial, I think. Covered fairly extensively in The Philidor Files by Bauer. He thinks 10. ...b6 better than 10. ...b5 - the latter as 'unclear.' |
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| Dec-22-09 | | rustyrook: TY Parisattack. Do not have Bauers book
but does b6 allow Nb5? For example 10--b6 11 Nb5 a6 12 Na8c7 axb5 13 Ne6 when
black must take the draw! 10 -- b5 is more forcing and would be my choice over the board. White will have to be very careful I feel. |
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| Mar-23-10 | | teddyo: Had this nice win last night against the so-called 'Lion' variation. Such a dullard of an opening waiting for Black to play exd4... I would love to read any comments about the game!
1.e4 e5
2.Nf3 d6
3.d4 Nf6
4.Nc3 Nd7
5.Be2 Be7
6.0-0 0-0
7.h3 c6
8.a4 b6
9.Be3 Qc7
10.Qd2 Bb7
11.g4 exd4
12.Nxd4 Nc5
13.Bf3 Ne6?
14.Nf5 Re8
15.Nxe7+ Rxe7
16.g5 Nd7
17.Bg2 Ne5
18.Qe2 a5
19.Qh5 Nc4
20.Bc1 Nd4
21.Qd1 Ne6
22.f4 Re8?
23.b3 Ba6
24.bxc4 Bxc4
25.Rf2 Nc5
26.Qd4 Ba6
27.Bb2 Ne6
28.Qd2 Bc8
29.f5 Nf8
30.Qd4 Re5
31.Qd2 Nd7
32.Rf1 f6?
33.h4 Kh8?
34.Rd1 d5
35.exd5 cxd5
Rush to time extension over... leaves an easy win:
36.Nxd5 Qc5
37.Qd4 Re2
38.Qxc5 Nxc5
39.gxf3 Rxf2
40.Kxf2 Nxa4?
41.fxg7+ Kg8
42.Nf6+
Black resigns 1-0 |
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| Jul-17-10 | | jbtigerwolf: I find it amazing that Black has a 25% win rate for this.... and then 29% draws. The Philidor Defence, who would have thought it? This opening is known as a pariah, scorned and avoided. But look at the last 35 games in the database:
11-11 with 13 draws.
The thing to remember is that statistics don't reflect that if you are Black and you win you get 0-1.. if you can find an opening that does it for you, then all the better if your opening is scorned. I would use it at the start and finish of a tournament if I were to use it more than once. |
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| Jul-20-10 | | jbtigerwolf: Ah, it's hard to judge this opening because they are all playing the lion now. It goes: 1.e4 d6 2. f3 f6 3.d4 e5 I think. Or maybe 3.any and 3...e5? Why not 1.e4 e5 2.f3 d6? You've got your chain formed with an option for move 3.Maybe the normal Philidor has been refuted? It's hard to judge, but the normal one hasn't been played for some time, so it doesn't look good. I wonder if it just the reputation of the Philidor, rather than the refutation? |
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| Aug-26-10 | | rapidcitychess: <Arthur.J.Fizelbotom: I often adopt a sort of Sicilian setup as white against the Philidor, since the Sicilian is one of my favorites and I feel comfortable with the positions that arise. Something like 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 exd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 Be7 6.Be3 0-0 7.Qd2 Nbd7 8.f3 c5 8.Nb3 h6 (the move order/moves by black are not really critical; I'm just shooting for Sicilian-like positions) and then castle long and march my pawns on the kingside. Does anyone know if these sorts of ideas have been tried,and if so, what kinds of results?> I play that a lot and if you look at rapidcitychess chessforum there's an annotated game. Hope that helps. |
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| Aug-31-10 | | rapidcitychess: Had a game against the Lion last night. Here is the game: [Event "Team 45 45 League T46"]
[Site "Internet Chess Club"]
[Date "2010.08.30"]
[Round "4"]
[White "Rapidcitychess"]
[Black "stan-beers"]
[Result "1-0"]
[WhiteElo "1529"]
[BlackElo "1505"]
[Opening "King's pawn opening"]
[ECO "B07"]
[Time "13:00:55"]
[TimeControl "2700+45"]
1. e4 0:45:31 d6 0:45:29 2. d4 0:45:50 Nd7 0:45:52 3. Nc3 0:45:01
Ngf6 0:46:26 4. Nf3 0:45:36 h6 0:46:27 5. Bc4 0:45:06 e5 0:45:47
6. O-O 0:44:56 c6 0:46:19 7. a4 0:42:49 Be7 0:46:05 8. h3 0:39:55
Qc7 0:41:38 9. Bb3 0:35:40 g5 0:38:43 10. Be3 0:33:18 Nf8 0:37:08
11. Qd2 0:29:32 Ne6 0:29:40 12. Rfd1 0:20:41 Nf4 0:28:52 13. Bxf4
0:16:56 gxf4 0:26:58 14. Kh2 0:15:39 Rg8 0:27:20 15. Qe2 0:14:09
Qd7 0:27:36 16. dxe5 0:13:10 Rxg2+ 0:24:57 17. Kxg2 0:11:59 Qxh3+
0:25:36 18. Kg1 0:12:41 Bg4 0:26:15 19. Qf1 0:11:11 Qxf3 0:26:51
20. Rd3 0:10:40 O-O-O 0:24:10 21. Rxf3 0:10:53 Bxf3 0:24:51 22. exf6
0:09:54 Rg8+ 0:25:31 23. Kh2 0:10:34 Bxf6 0:26:14 24. Qh3+ 0:10:01
Bg4 0:26:52 25. Rg1 0:09:51 f3 0:27:26 26. Qxg4+ 0:10:09 Rxg4
0:28:06 27. Rxg4 0:10:51 Be5+ 0:28:50 28. Kh3 0:11:18 f6 0:29:33
29. Kh4 0:11:24 Kc7 0:30:12 30. Rg6 0:11:14  lack resigns 1-0 |
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| Aug-31-10 | | rapidcitychess: One of things I learned in the post-mortem was that the unorthodox g7-g5 was called The Lion's Claw acorrding to a couple chaps.
Then there's the Lion's roar. That is supposedly the main line with me, and the Lion's roar to every Lion player. He also said that the Lion is not a Philidor, but a combination of the Old Indian, Pirc, and Philidor.
Any comments on this and the game would be appreciated. |
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Aug-31-10
 | | Eric Schiller: Just a typical example of amateurs renaming an established opening that has a long history. Nothing against the opening, which I like and play, but it is old and there is lots of analysis on it. Bent Larsen praised the Phiidor for its fighting spirit but saw no need to rename it. It follows standard opening principles except that Black does not rush to castle. |
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