|Jan-15-04|| ||Whitehat1963: Marshall appears to be the first to employ this attack, and in fact, he uses it against Rubinstein himself before Rubinstein uses it as white (at least according to the database). Why isn't it called the "Queen's Gambit Declined, Orthodox Defense, Marshall Attack" instead? (By the way, while this has lost popularity, it has enjoyed great superiority for white.) But what I really want to know is how did it get it's name? Marshall used it first and more often. |
|Jan-15-04|| ||BiLL RobeRTiE: The database is incomplete; maybe Rubinstein used it before Marshall or popularized it. I would say that this is seen less commonly because the Orthodox Defense is so rarely employed nowadays. |
|Jan-26-04|| ||Sneaky: I just played this game, I'm kind of proud of my attack. The moves came very naturally.|
[Event "ChessAnyTime/AjedrezOnline rated blitz game"]
1. d4 d5 2. c4 e6 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. Bg5 Be7 5. e3 O-O 6. Qc2 h6 7. h4 Nbd7 8. Nf3 c5 9. O-O-O Qa5 10. Kb1 dxc4 11. Bxc4 a6 12. Bxf6 Nxf6 13. Ng5 cxd4 14. Rxd4 b5 15. Nce4 g6 16. Bxe6 Bxe6 17. Nxe6 Rac8 18. Qd3 Nxe4 19. Qxe4 Bf6 20. Nxf8 Bxd4 21. Nxg6 fxg6 22. Qxg6+ Kh8 23. Qxh6+ Kg8 24. Qe6+ Kg7 25. Qd7+ Kf6 26. Qxd4+ Ke7 27. Qg7+ Ke8 28. Qg8+ Ke7 29. Qxc8 Qd2 30. Rc1 Qd3+ 31. Qc2 <Black resigned 1-0>
|Jan-26-04|| ||fred lennox: <sneaky> Wow! That's quite a crush. Looks like your rating will go up. Good going. Just wondering, do you have a favorite d4 player? |
|Jan-27-04|| ||Sneaky: Thanks, I like the 1.d4 as practiced by Kasparov (esp. in the 80's), Najdorf, Tal, and of course Rubinstein.|
Looking over that game again I think I was probably lost at some point, but oh well...it's just 5 minute chess.
|Feb-03-05|| ||Open Defence: Per the database the last Black win against the Rubenstein came in 2001! J M Bellon Lopez vs Y Gonzalez is that correct ? |
|Feb-03-05|| ||InfinityCircuit: There's also A Shalamberidze vs T L Petrosian, 2001 but that might be later in 2001. |
|Jan-26-06|| ||EricCartman: I play this over, over and over again. There's just no way of losing to black if you play this opening. |
You get such an incredible attack and your pawnsturctre is so strong, the winning percentage with the white pieces is 48%. Enough said.
|Jul-27-06|| ||siggemannen: i guess this is why ppl play the tartakower-makogonov-bondarevsky system. you can't get the same attacking momento there as black already played h6 protecting the weak h7-square. also the long-castle in tartakower is while being tricky can turn the tables against white even.|
|Feb-04-07|| ||refutor: are there any books out there on this line?|
|Feb-04-07|| ||Eric Schiller: <refutor> Several books are out there, including one of mine which should be available at a low price. In fact, most QGD books cover it.|
|Feb-04-07|| ||refutor: Thanks Eric! I really enjoyed your book with Shamkovich on the Tarrasch Defense...what is the book called?|
|Feb-04-07|| ||Eric Schiller: <refutor> Orthodox Variation, Queen's Gambit Declined. ISBN 0931462347. $6.50 list, probably cheaper online.|
|May-18-07|| ||Knight13: Holy crap Black barely wins and White's killing black like crazy.|
|Dec-25-11|| ||Penguincw: Opening of the Day
Queen's Gambit Declined, Orthodox Defense, Rubinstein Attack
1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.c3 f6 4.g5 e7 5. e3 O-O 6.f3 bd7 7.c2
click for larger view
|Jul-05-12|| ||Wyatt Gwyon: Not exactly the best stats for black.|
|Jul-05-12|| ||RookFile: Exactly. This is what Fischer understood. Play some stodgy defense like this, and you simply are not going to put as many points up on the board as you will by playing sharp, double edged stuff with black.|
|Jul-05-12|| ||Shams: <This is what Fischer understood.> And about a million other people, before and after him.|
|Jul-06-12|| ||RookFile: Actually, not. The Russians, of course, understood the need for sharp stuff before Fischer. Bronstein played some wonderful games with the KID, for example, and Mikhail Tal needs no introduction. But really, most top players played to make a draw with black (as Karpov did later) - Capa, Lasker, Euwe, etc. Fischer himself said that the turning point in his entire career was when he realized black should play for a win, not a draw. That was certainly not the conventional wisdom of win with white, draw with black.|
It is true that from the time of Kasparov onwards, there was a renewed acceptance of the risky doubled edged black defenses that Fischer pioneered. The poisoned pawn Sicilian is one example.
|Jul-06-12|| ||Shams: Can't you see that your next to your initial assertion, your post confuses the choice of what to play, with the knowledge of the consequences of that choice? The Fischer comment you relate was only an epiphany in a personal, competitive sense, it wasn't a new insight into the game. It's Fischer telling himself that he can win with either color, nothing more.|
|Jul-07-12|| ||RookFile: Well, take Reshevsky as an example, who was Fischer's chief competition in the US. Win with white, draw with black. Ideal for matches, not as good for tournaments. If you read Bronstein's Zurich 1953 you'll see Bronstein criticizing Reshevsky over this very point. He's less direct about it, but I believe that Bronstein is indeed making the very point that with black you should be playing sharp stuff and going for the win. |
Along these lines, I remember an interview Reshevsky gave late in life, and he said he thought Fischer was a little too loose with the black pieces. I'm afraid that for all his strength, Reshevsky never quite got Bronstein's point on this matter.
So, Fischer wasn't the first to eschew the Orthodox, and there were guys after him. However, millions may be a bit of an overstatement. Make a long story short, while Fischer hated to lose, he wasn't afraid to, and took chances in accordance with a competitive belief (as opposed to chess played by computers) that the most intelligent thing to do with black is to double down and go all out for the win.
This was actually an interesting idea to think through.
|Jul-18-12|| ||perfidious: Even before the postwar years and the seminal contibutions made by Geller, Bronstein and Boleslavsky to the theory and practice of the King's Indian as Black, there was a trend towards playing openings other than the Classical QGD. All but two games at Buenos Aires 1927 in that opening? Ugh!|
Aron Nimzowitsch often played his beloved Nimzo-Indian and others followed his example from the thirties onwards, plus a more active form of QGD, the Slav, became popular indeed-by AVRO 1938, all the top players were giving it a try.