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| Jul-11-06 | | hitman84: Well, Grunfeld has been scoring abysmally against the Russian system
recently.
I'll set up a match in the Russian system b/n DeepFritz8 and Rybka1.0 and lets see what happens. I'll post the games here after the match.
7...a6,7...Na6,7...Nc6
I'll take up these variations one by one. |
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| Jul-11-06 | | Swapmeet: <hitman84> I'm not saying you're wrong, just that you need to give something more than game results to say that an entire opening is refuted. |
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| Jul-11-06 | | hitman84: <Swapmeet>Yes.I understand. Russian system is a forced line.
Black just cant avoid it.
I have kibitzed on most grunfeld games.
The ideas and analysis by different kibitzers can be found on game pages. After the computer match is completed I'll compare them with GM's games.
This way I'll be able to find out where GM's went wrong. |
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Jul-12-06
 | | Hesam7: <AdrianP>
You are right about the second game, it is played with classical controls. I have not seen a more recent book on Gruenfeld that is as advanced as Rowson's book. I am tempted to buy Gelfand's book just because of the part on Gruenfeld. |
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| Jul-12-06 | | dragon40: <Hesam7> you are correct, Rowson's book is excellent for the themes and some analysis of the Grunfeld. I also purchased Nigel Davies " the grunfeld defense" (Everyman 2002) and that is a very well done analytical look at the Grunfeld.
Davies did a good job I think, the games are picked well and annotated very clearly and precisely (as far as I can tell thus far).
I use the GRunfeld as Black a fair bit too, and I do not think it is refuted; as with all openings it has had its major ups and downs and will probably always experience them, due to the dynamic nature of the opening.
As long as there are people like Ftatnik, Svidler, and Navara to soldier it, I think it's around for a while to come ! |
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Jul-12-06
| | Hesam7: <dragon40> thanks for the input. Rowson's book is published in November 1998. That is 8 years ago so it is pretty dated. Another place to look for material is in the book series "Opening for White according to Kramnik". It certainly covers Gruenfeld and it is an excellent series, but it is written for White side. |
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| Jul-12-06 | | RookFile: Well, I think it's great to play the Gruenfeld defense with the white pieces... i.e. 1. Nf3 d5 2. g3 c5 3. Bg2 Nc6 4. d4 etc. |
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| Jul-12-06 | | dragon40: <Hesam7> I play the Grunfeld as Black and since I am a d4 player, I also face it quite a bit. I prefer the exchange variation most of all, just because I think it gives White better chances...
I think there is still a huge amount of play left in the Russian System, mainly because Black has 7...a6; 7...Na6; 7...Bg4; 7...Nc6 not to mention a few other lesser played lines, so its a huge field for developing and repairing!
The great thing with the Grunfeld is that is survives, it adapts, as do the other very hypermodern openings ( as the King's Indian ) and it will always be a main part of the opening theroy and practice (I hope) for decades to come ! |
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| Jul-19-06 | | ArturoRivera: where can i get free opening theory? specially the grunfeld, but any other its welcomed. |
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| Aug-29-06 | | yanez: I consider the line 5.e4 Nxc3 6.Bxc3 c5 7.Nf3 Bg7 8.Rb1 a refutation
click for larger view/ |
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| Aug-29-06 | | yanez: I prefer white by far after 8...0-0 9.Be2 cxd4 10. cxd4 Qa5+ 11.Bd2 Qxa2 / 
click for larger view/ |
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| Sep-24-06 | | Archives: Gruenfeld defense is my favorite Black defense to play against as White. (Mainly because I have my greatest win rate against it than any other opening). The line I use is the exchange variation with 10.Rc1
<1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 d5 4.cxd5 Nxd5 5.e4 Nxc3 6.bxc3 c5 7.Bc4 Bg7 8.Ne2 Nc6 9.Be3 0-0 10.Rc1> 
click for larger viewI am currently updating my opening theory on this variation and have amassed alot of theory so far. If anyone plays it or has played against it and would like some help then let me know :) |
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| Sep-24-06 | | SniperOnG7: <alicefujimori> thanks for the anti-bayonet collection. |
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| Jan-21-07 | | whatthefat: <hitman84>
You never posted those computer match results. Did you get around to doing them? |
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| Jan-22-07 | | hitman84: <whatthefat>The games were played long back and I seem to have mistakenly deleted the pgn besides I have no time to play cometitve chess so chess has taken a back seat. If my memory serves me right, the Russian system is playable but black will have to fight tooth and nail. I'll do it all over again... |
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| Aug-09-07 | | MadBishop: I recently played a cc game with white against the grunfeld. After 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 d5 4.cxd5 Nxd5 5.e4 Nxc3 6.bxc3 Bg7 7.Nf3 0-0 8.Be2 Black played <b6> 
click for larger viewThis is the 1st time that I was faced with this, and I was just wondering whether this move is a necessary prelude to c5 and what part the B7 bishop is supposed to eventually play? What would white's best reply to this move be and what long-term stratergies could white look foreward to?
Much thanks!
Enjoy! ;-) |
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| Aug-20-07 | | jenspetersson: Any Grünfeldians out there you could tell me if there is a name for the system/variation with Bd2 in D85? 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 d5 4. cxd5 Nxd5 5. Bd2 A "prosaic system which Smyslov was fond of" according to Rowson "Understanding the Grünfeld", but does it have a name? |
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| Aug-20-07 | | Swapmeet: <jenspetersson> I believe it is called the Smyslov variation. At least Lalic does in his book on the Grunfeld. |
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| Aug-21-07 | | jenspetersson: Thanks <Swapmeet>! What confused me was that I couldn't find a single game with Smyslov playing it (neither here at chessgames or anywhere else)! But double checking I now realize that Smyslov didn't play the modern version with this move order and aiming at playing an early e4. Smyslov played it with an early Nf3+Rc1 and then its D90 and not D85! |
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Oct-09-07
 | | Sneaky: <yanez: I prefer white by far after 8...0-0 9.Be2 cxd4 10. cxd4 Qa5+ 11.Bd2 Qxa2> I do too, but just because strategically my plan is clear, maybe objectively it's still about equal. We're talking about
1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 d5 4. cxd5 Nxd5 5. e4 Nxc3 6. bxc3 Bg7 7. Nf3 c5 8. Rb1 O-O 9. Be2 cxd4 10. cxd4 Qa5+ 11. Bd2 Qxa2
click for larger viewIt's a gambit, for sure. If White can't whip something up, then Black's two queenside passers will win the ending, for sure. Luckily White is in a good position to whip something up. The book move, and it's probably best, is simply 12.O-O. But on ICC me and another chessgamer spent perhaps a dozen rapid games exploring a pet variation of mine: 12.Qc1?! I won a few of these games right off the bat as he struggled with this new idea, but before long he hit upon the refutation, forcing me to stop playing it altogether. Let's take a closer look: <Grunfeld, Sneaky Variation> After 12.Qc1?!
click for larger viewIt's truly a "sneaky" move because it's full of venom and hidden traps for the unwary. For example, <12...Nc6?> looks natural, doesn't it? Gotcha! 13.Bc4 traps the queen! 13...Qa4 14.Ra1 1-0 - I've won a handful of blitz games with that one trap. <12...b6?> is a commonly seen Grunfeld move, right? But now it loses a piece to 13.Bc4! Qa4 14.Bd5! - I've scored a point that way as well. <12...Qa4> is a natural move and probably pretty good. It's obvious that the queen is in trouble and this seems to be a good way to extricate her. But now I like 13.Rb4 Qd7 14.O-O and I think White is a little bit better here than in the normal mainline (12.O-O) because the rook really controls a lot of squares from b4, the Black queen looks sort of silly blocking in the bishop like that, and ...Nc6 can be neutralized with Bb5. And any move with the queen's bishop, like 12...Bg4 can probably be met with Rxb7, and if you are playing a GM or something, you can just claim a draw on the spot with a repetition Bc4 Qa4 Bb5 Qa2 Bc4 Qa4 Bb5 etc. <The Refutation>
So what's the real refutation of the "Grunfeld, Sneaky Variation"? Well after some thought what we figured out was 12...Qe6! not keeps the queen out of trouble, but actually gives White a few headaches of his own. After 12...Qe6!
click for larger view12...Qe6! is the kind of move that computers find right away, but people usually don't like it at first glance because you have to take into account the complicated 12.Ng5. It doesn't take much imagination to see that there could be some sort of sacrifice on f7 or something like that, but as Caissa would have it, 12.Ng5 is no big deal. It might look nasty but it's really nothing more than a momentary inconvenience. <Conclusion> 12.Qc1?! is good for blitz games, or if you want to test your opponent with something they haven't seen before, but the hard-to-see 12...Qe6 all but refutes it, therefore the textbook 12.O-O is still White's best shot. |
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| Nov-12-07 | | MadBishop: Here is the completed game I was refering to earlier: 1.d5 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 d5 4.cxd5 Nxd5 5.e4 Nxc3 6.bxc3 Bg7 7.Nf3 0-0 8.Be2 b6 9.0-0 Bb7 10.e5 c5 11.Be3 Qc7 12.Rc1 c4<?> The terrible move that cost Black the game!
click for larger view13.a4 a6 14.Nd2 b5 15.f4 f5<!?> 16.Bf3 Bxf3 17.Rxf3 e6<!?> 18.h4 h5<?!> In his attempt to stop my attack, Black has gained self-induced weaknesses in his position! 
click for larger view19.Rb1 Qc6 20.Rg3 Kh7 21.Qf3 Qxf3 22.Nxf3 bxa4 23.Ng5+<!>
Black resigns
click for larger viewIn this game Black's ...b6 was refuted by Whites exchanges along the h1-a8 diagonal! I look forward to facing this variation of the Grunfeld again! ;-) |
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| Apr-08-08 | | playerXchess: Li Chao is one of the very few players today who use the Grufeld almost exclusively as black's answer to d4. It's worth going through some of his games. |
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| Jun-20-08 | | offtherook: All right, I'm trying to find a decent response to <1 d4>. For some reason, I absolutely can not seem to understand the Indian defences (KID, QID, and Nimzo don't really make much sense to me) and semi-slav is way too boring. I've been playing the Budapest gambit, but I think it's time I settled on a real opening. Grünfeld looks interesting, so how do I go about learning it? What are some typical things to look out for, and what are the plans for both sides? |
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| Jul-07-08 | | ravel5184: My System: 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 d5 4. b3?!?!
click for larger viewIf anybody can see any problems with it tell me on my forum. Please! I am planning to play it in my next OTB tournament and I don't want to get caught in a simple opening trap! |
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| Jul-07-08 | | ravel5184: Please! |
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