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Mar-03-06
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| foolishmovesss: Just an update. I have been using the Tarrasch as my way of dealing with the QP openings. I have found it helps stop white from getting into the zukertort line because c5 is played so quickly. White will get into their beloved Colle system, but my pawn on c5 will always allow me some counter play. Basically the Tarrasch is great because you can play it against anything except e4 really. Of course alot of times the isolani will kill you in an endgame. Simple way to avoid that is just dont get to an ending. Wishful thinking I know, but your activity should help make your structral weakness less oof a problem. nd get you to an endgame where both sides have some structural weaknesses. Peace. --Foolish |
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| Mar-04-06 |
| Dudley: That's an excellent idea. Using the Tarasch move order also makes it difficult to play the Torre attack (1.d4 d5 2. Nf3 e6 3. Bg5? Be7) or the London system ( 1.d4 d5 2. Nf3 e6 3.Bf4 Bd6!) effectively. Also you can play the Tarasch vs. 1. e4, eg. 1.e4 e6 2. d4 c5?! when White can play it like a Sicilian or a Benoni. Its probably not that good but it is playable. |
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| Mar-04-06 |
| Dudley: Well its Tarasch like, anyway. If you move... d5 in this setup its a French of course. |
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Mar-06-06
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| foolishmovesss: Well, the Tarrasch is proving to be quite useful. The main problem now is the move order of d4 d5 e3 e6 be3 c5 f4. The stonewall attack!! I know its not a forced loss or anything, but for some people myself included the Stonewall can be one though bastard. I don't see this to much but it has cropped up a few times. I have problems with the Duthch Stonewall, so it is no surprise that I have trouble against the Stonewall attack. I see no way to avoid this if the Tarrasch is going to be my weapon. I guess I will have to deal with it as it comes. Later. <Dudley> I agree that it can be played against e4, but as you stated its only really logical if you intend to head for a French. The other to way like you stated (Bennoni, Scillian) i don't find particularly effective. I play openings that I can play against any setup. For example, I in fact play the Colle system for white. I prefer the Zukertort, but like this discusion says I have to be prepared to face the Tarrasch, and I actually play the Stonewall attack aginst it. As black against anything but e4 I play the Tarrasch, and against e4 I play the Qd6 Scandanavian(some people may laugh, but it is surprising how similar the positions are to the Najdorf, and I like it and am comfortable with it. and thats the point. Anyway getting kinda long, coffee hasnt kicked in yet. Later. --Foolish
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| Mar-10-06 |
| Kelvieto: What books do you suggest to read to learn how to play Queen's Indian |
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Mar-10-06
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| Mating Net: <Kelvieto> The Queen's Indian by Yrjola and Tella from Gambit publishing is a really good book. Just remember, the most important thing to remember as a QI player is, and it has been stated on previous kibitzes, you can't play the QI if White plays 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3!? you have to meet that line with 3...Bb4, the Nimzo Indian. Going into the QI with 3...b6 is bad because of 4.e4 and Black has failed because the main point of the QI is to control e4. This line is covered in the book along with all the typical QI lines. |
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| Apr-07-06 |
| melianis: <KingG: Honestly, i think some people choose these openings just to annoy their opponents.> LOL, the only thing missing in that was ''inferior' openings' to make that one a beautiful quote! |
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| Aug-14-06 |
| alphastrike20: Does anyone know of any aggressive systems for black in the queen's indian and the nimzo indian? |
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| Nov-29-06 |
| Z.Ramsay: -11? Why the serious drop?! Are people running to the Bogo or QGD after 3. Nf3???? |
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| Jul-31-07 |
| simsim: i got the book "chess explained: the queen's indian" by peter wells yesterday. and it think it is among the "best" (i havn't finished reading yet, but what i've read so far has convinced me:) opening books i ever bought (note that i'm a "chess-book junkie").
it contains 25 commented recent games (2000-2006) on 122 pages (it is no encyclopedia, but the perfect book if you want to learn the opening). it is really fun to read, as the author explains the ideas of the opening very well. you can look up a review at http://www.jeremysilman.com/book_re...
which highly recommends this book (and i fully agree). i also own "The Queen's Indian" by Yrjola and Tella. (did i mention that i'm a "chess book junkie"). it is also a very good (but older) book, although i think it is a bit dry (it is more of an encyclopedia and probably more suitable to look something up, than to read it from the first to the last page). i think that both books complement each other, but i would prefer peter well's book to learn the opening. |
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| Dec-16-07 |
| FICSwoodpusher: In response to these openings I would play 1. d4 d5 2. e3 Bf5. |
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Mar-24-08
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| sallom89: <melianis: <KingG: Honestly, i think some people choose these openings just to annoy their opponents.> from my point of view i think it is true, since once i told the guy i play with this opening annoys me.. he been playing it each time we meet .. either king's Indian or queen's Indian lol. |
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| Aug-20-08 |
| get Reti: I have looked at many games in the databse with 1 d4 Nf6 2 c4 e6 3 Nf3 b6 4 g3 Ba6 5 b3 b5 and it looks pretty solid for black. Black can move the bishop to c6 (and maybe d5), the Queen to b7, the pawn to a5, and the bishop to b4 and then possible play c5 od d5 and whip up an attack. What do you all think of this? |
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Mar-24-09
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| ILikeFruits: if i may...
why are...
these openings...
called the...
indian defense...
kid...
for example...
too...
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| Mar-24-09 |
| chessman95: <get Reti: I have looked at many games in the databse with 1 d4 Nf6 2 c4 e6 3 Nf3 b6 4 g3 Ba6 5 b3 b5 and it looks pretty solid for black. Black can move the bishop to c6 (and maybe d5), the Queen to b7, the pawn to a5, and the bishop to b4 and then possible play c5 od d5 and whip up an attack. What do you all think of this?> I play the QID as my main defense after 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3, so I can tell you from both experience and the studying I've done on this opening that most of what you say is true. The line you gave is not very common, and I don't play it myself, but it looks solid enough to me. I usually play the QB to b7 instead of a6, and then my KB to e7 or b4, 0-0, and as you said I play c5 or d5 at the best time to undermine the center. Also, the nice 'hole' on d4 can be usefull for my KN to go there and then trade knights. I like this opening because black is the one who gets to dictate when the 'attack' starts and it's really very fun to play (for me) from the black side. <Z.Ramsay: -11? Why the serious drop?! Are people running to the Bogo or QGD after 3. Nf3????> From the reasons stated above, I'm honestly not sure about that. I have been aware of the drop in popularity over the past years, but I can't figure out why. I can tell you that it would probably be more because of the QGD than the Bogo, if that is the reason. However, I don't mind it, because I play this opening all the time and less people know the QID theory anymore. <alphastrike20: Does anyone know of any aggressive systems for black in the queen's indian and the nimzo indian?> The Ba6 lines are usually aggressive, and also lines with an early c5 or d5 break can get exciting (that's in the QID). As far as the Nizmo, there's so much theory on that that there's probably an aggressive line in just about every variation! <ILikeFruits: if i may...
why are...
these openings...
called the...
indian defense...
kid...
for example...
too...>
On another page (I can't remember where) I said that the reason was that Europeans had learned the response Nf6 to d4 in India, which I had read somewhere. Others said that it's just because the openings tend to be 'exotic', so they were named after India. Whatever the reason, anything after 1.d4 Nf6 is considered an "Indian Defense". |
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| Apr-17-09 |
| drukenknight: another fun queens indian that starts off as French def. Does anyone else do this as black? 1 e4 e6 then if anything other than 2 d4 play 2...b6? 1. e4 e6
2. Nf3 b6
3. d4 Bb7
4. Nc3 Nf6
5. e5 Nd5
6. Nxd5 Bxd5
7. c3 Be7
8. Bd3 h6 (the crap pc is against this, but I find black needs space on the k side) 9. O-O g5 (crap pc says to castle but this is too much fun)
10. Re1 g4
11. Nd2 h5
after 11 ...h5 what now?
click for larger view12. Be4 (looks odd, he seems determined to swap off the fianch. B but maybe Ne4 is better) 12...Rg8
13. c4 Bxe4
14. Nxe4 d5
15. cxd5 Qxd5
16. Nf6+ (Nc3 seems obviously the move)
16...Bxf6
17. exf6 Nc6
18. a3 h4
19. Bf4 (not the best)
black to play;
click for larger view |
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Apr-17-09
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| blacksburg: isn't the point of the QID and NID to prevent e4? if you allow e4, aren't you playing the <Owen's Defence> or something? |
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| Apr-17-09 |
| chessman95: <isn't the point of the QID and NID to prevent e4?> It's much much much much much deeper than that. Black prevents e4 first, because that allows him to also battle for the rest of the center squares. If the pawn was on e4, it would be much harder to contest in the center. By the way, I think the <Owen Defense> is 1.e4 b6 |
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| Apr-17-09 |
| drukenknight: I really wasnt sure where to post this type of opening. I see that eco E12 is based on c4/d4 pawns but I really have no idea about this set of moves. Yes, cman is right, that is Owen's defense w/ k side fianchetto. I dont know what to call this other than Q Indian. I have had good experience playing this when white does not play the natural moves for the French. My old MCO book, talks about something called Franco-benoni" encouraging people to play e4 e6 and then either to French or Benoni depending on whites play. I have also found ...f5 useful in many instances, maybe I can post something. By the way that is a chess problem for you all, in that second diagram above. I might see if Tartakover's book mentions this... |
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| Jul-14-09 |
| drukenknight: Another one that starts out as French and goes into a q indian set up.I dont have a better category to post it under..White pushes a lot of pawns around 1. e4 e6
2. e5 d5 (I have been reluctant to give up the qp so quickly, but this seems the most logical move) 3. exd6 Bxd6
4. Nf3 b6
5. Be2 Bb7
6. Nc3 Nc6
7. a3 Nf6
8. h3 Ne7
9. O-O c5
10. d3 Qc7
11. Nb5 Qd7
12. Nxd6+ Qxd6
13. Bg5 h6 (I want to provoke him to dbl the pawns and open the g file) 14. Bxf6 gxf6
15. c3 (maybe Qe2) Rg8(000 better)
16. d4 Rd8
17. Qa4+ Nc6 (Ke7 maybe better)
18. Bb5 Ke7
19. Bxc6 Bxc6
20. Qd1
position after 20 Qd1 and now?
click for larger view |
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| Aug-07-09 |
| drukenknight: I have decided to play an early Qe2 against the queens indian (in response to 1 e4): Here is it's debut: 1 e4 b6
2. Nf3 Bb7
3. Bc4 e6
4. Qe2 Nc6
5. d4 d5?! (5…Na5 6 Bd3 c5 white has small advantage) 6. exd5 Na5
7. Bb5+ c6
8. dxc6 Bxc6
after 8..Bxc6 white has several ways to continue a very favorable game: 
click for larger viewit continues for example:
9. Ne5 Bxb5
10. Qxb5+ Ke7 |
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| Aug-09-09 |
| drukenknight: The follow up to that idea is even funnier. I decided to play this same Q move when white goes into a Queens indian reversed: 1. b3 e5
2. Bb2 Qe7
3. e3 d5
4. a3 Nf6
5. d4 exd4
6. Bxd4 Nc6
7. Bxf6?! Qxf6
8. c3 Bf5
9. Bd3 Bxd3
10. Qxd3 Ne5
11. Qxd5 Rd8
12. Qxb7? (12 Qe4 with slight black advantage)
after 12 Qxb7??
click for larger viewHe ends up losing the Q but in our game he simply got mated when the K marched wrong, supposed to go: 12…Nd3+
13. Kd1 Nc5+
14. Ke2 |
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| Aug-10-09 |
| drukenknight: since no one seems interested; in that diagram posted on 4/17 after move 19 there is a beautiful swallow tail mate in there if you look closely. It is useful to know those classic mating positions after all. |
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Aug-10-09
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| ughaibu: 19....h3, etc? |
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| Aug-12-09 |
| drukenknight: yes; it goes downhill from there. |
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