< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 1 OF 2 ·
|Jun-11-04|| ||unsound: Why does white never play an early e5 (e.g. 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7 4.e4 d6 5.f4 0-0 6.Nf3 c5 7.e5)? |
|Jun-11-04|| ||drukenknight: I think he can in some lines. The Letelier/Fischer game is a 3 pawns attack, I think w/ early e5. THere is game Vladimirov/Doda Leningrad 1967 that features e5, which is a 4 pawns attack. I dont know if that is in the database. |
|Jun-11-04|| ||unsound: Thanks <DK>. I see that someone has quoted some Fischer comments at Letelier vs Fischer, 1960 though not everyone is convinced. (That Vladi-Doda game doesn't seem to be in here yet.) |
|Jun-11-04|| ||drukenknight: unsound: I am in process of submitting the Doda game, it will make a very nice puzzle some day. Hang in there. Oh, if you are impatient, I might as well just post the moves, it really is a very fine game, Evans includes it in his Modern CHess Brilliancies.|
It's difficult to figure out this one, as early as move 21 black appears cooked, perhaps taking the R was mistake...?
Vladimirov/Doda; Leningrad 1967
1. d4 Nf6
2. c4 c5
3. d5 g6
4. Nc3 d6
5. e4 Bg7
6. f4 O-O
7. Nf3 e6
8. Be2 exd5
9. cxd5 Re8
10. e5 dxe5
11. fxe5 Ng4
12. Bg5 Qb6
13. O-O Nxe5
14. Nxe5 Bxe5
15. Bc4 Qxb2
16. d6 Bf5
17. Bxf7+ Kxf7
18. Rxf5+ gxf5
19. Qh5+ Kf8
20. Rf1 Bd4+
21. Kh1 Re6
22. Rxf5+ Bf6
23. Bh6+ Kg8
24. Qg5+ Kf7
25. Rxf6+ Rxf6
26. Qg7+ Ke6
27. Qe7+ Kf5
|Dec-07-04|| ||Dropped Down Cloud: Wow. I can't even get the four pawns on the field. I kinda like this opening but It's very hard to get a position like this. The White's f and d pawn are dangerous. Say 5... O-O 6. e6 dxe6 fxe6 and the Knight is in trouble. It's not an easy Opening for Black to handle. All of the above are Opinions.|
(Dropped Down Cloud's First Kibitz)
|Dec-07-04|| ||pawn52: <Dropped Down Cloud> Why do you have several accounts. |
|Mar-27-05|| ||refutor: to all the people wiser than me in the ways of chess openings...why is this not as popular as some of the other KID lines? |
|Mar-27-05|| ||hintza: <refutor> I think Black can equalise in the main line with ...c5 quite early and blunt White's initiative, although I don't really play the KID. |
|Mar-27-05|| ||refutor: i'm just curious because <grabbing copy of Zurich 1953> i recall Bronstein mentioning in annotation to his game Keres vs Bronstein, 1953 he mentioned "This variation has an interesting history. When it first appeared, it struck terror into the hearts of King's Indian players. By the aggregate efforts of many masters, this attack's steamroller tendencies were neutralized, and soon it was Black who began to score the points. The variation disappeared for some time... Recently, the storming variation has reappeared, with new aspirations and new goals, of course, and decked out with an array of modern positional ideas."|
I think it may be worth an attempt, by me for sure, but maybe at loftier levels as well ;)
|Mar-27-05|| ||acirce: The usual thing.. overextending, wasting tempi while Black develops and then strikes against the centre. This is from the chapter in question in Joe Gallagher's "Beating the Anti-King's Indians":|
<The Four Pawns Attack, in which by the fifth move White has already constructed an enormous centre stretching from c4 to f4, is undoubtedly White's most ambitious set-up against the King's Indian. In the early part of this century such an edifice would have been regarded as a decisive advantage and the player of the black pieces ridiculed for such weak opening play. Then along came the hypermodernists who taught us that there are ways of battling against such centres. They pointed out that while Black has been concentrating on development and getting his king into safety, White has invested valuable tempi on the construction of his centre. It follows, therefore, that Black must strike quickly and try and open the position before White can consolidate the space advantage that his centre has gained him. Until recently it was assumed that the only acceptable way for Black to do this was by playing a quick ..c5, but times have changed and now I am able to recommend a system which is based mainly on Black playing for ..e5. As the immediate 6..e5 is premature (7.dxe5 dxe5 8.Nxe5 is good for White) this advance has to be prepared and the best way of doing this is with 6..Na6. The move ..Na6, in general, has breathed new life into many variations of the King's Indian and the Four Pawns Attack did not escape this phenomenon.
One of the main reasons for playing this system is that the theory is still undeveloped. (...) This does not mean, though, that 6..Na6 is just some tricky little side line; in fact at international level it is now the most common choice against the Four Pawns and has recently received no less than Kasparov's seal of approval.>
On 7.Be2 Black is apparently *now* supposed to play ..e5 and the variations seem to turn out well.
|Mar-27-05|| ||refutor: thank you <acirce> |
|Mar-27-05|| ||acirce: I forgot, 5..0-0 6.Nf3 are supposed to have been played in the above, of course.. then he recommends 6..Na6. |
|Mar-27-05|| ||Dick Brain: I know I was afraid of the four pawns attack in the days of old after|
Szabo vs Zuckerman, 1973
was published in Chess Life and Review
|Jan-16-07|| ||notyetagm: Here is a nice win by Black versus the Four Pawns Attack, from an ICC blitz game:|
[Event "ICC 3 0"]
[Site "Internet Chess Club"]
[ICCResult "White resigns"]
[Opening "King's Indian: Four pawns attack"]
1. d4 g6 2. c4 Bg7 3. Nc3 d6 4. e4 Nf6 5. f4 O-O 6. Nf3 Bg4 7. h3 Bxf3 8.
Qxf3 Nfd7 9. e5 Nc6 10. Be3 dxe5 11. dxe5 f6 12. O-O-O e6 13. exf6 Bxf6 14.
Be2 Bxc3 15. bxc3 Qe7 16. Kb2 Rad8 17. h4 Rf5 18. Ka1 Ra5 19. Rd2 Qa3 20.
Rc2 Nc5 21. Bxc5 Qxc5 22. h5 g5 23. fxg5 Qxg5 24. Rf1 Rf5 25. Qe4 Rxf1+ 26.
Bxf1 Rd1+ 27. Kb2 Rxf1 28. Qxe6+ Kg7 29. Re2 Rf7 30. Qd5 h6 31. Qd3 a5 32.
Re3 Ne5 33. Qe4 Qxe3 White resigns 0-1
|Mar-18-07|| ||Bob726: why not e5 fxe5 dxe5 nxe5 c5 is good for black i, think because d5 is met by nxe4|
|May-31-07|| ||WTHarvey: Here are some traps n zaps in E76 miniatures: http://www.wtharvey.com/e76.html|
|Aug-27-07|| ||notyetagm: What is the current status of 6 ... ♘b8-a6 against the Four Pawns Attack (E76)? |
|May-03-12|| ||parisattack: Fun to play for White. At least his KB doesn't become a jumbo pawn for 20 moves...|
|Nov-23-13|| ||parisattack: < notyetagm: What is the current status of 6 ... Nb8-a6 against the Four Pawns Attack (E76)?
It seems quite popular at this time - relatively speaking, of course.
I rather like 7. e5 and 8. h4 just going for it, trying to crash through.
|Dec-07-13|| ||Ananth1000: Does anyone know how Black should play against 6. h3?|
|Dec-07-13|| ||TheFocus: <Ananth> I assume you mean 6. h3 after 5...O-O.|
If you are going to play the h-pawn, 6. h4 is better than h3. If you are going to play 6. h3, the Four Pawns Attack may not be for you. It gives Black a full tempo and his thematic moves in the KID (6...c5 or 6...e5) come quicker than White's do.
With the Four Pawns Attack, White must strike hard and fast. Any tempo loss gives Black a better game than he normally gets.
|Dec-07-13|| ||tamar: <Ananth1000: Does anyone know how Black should play against 6. h3?>|
1 d4 Nf6 2 c4 g6 3 Nc3 Bg7 4 e4 d6 5 f4
0-0 6 h3
Along with 6...c5, Black can try for advantage with the immediate 6...Nh5
Ordinarily putting the knight on the rim so early is inadvisable, but h3 weakens g3 and you can take advantage right away.
For example, 6...Nh5 7 g4 Ng3 8 Rh2 c5 9 d5 Bxc3 10 bxc3 Nxe4 11 Bd3 Qa5! and Black is better because White's attack is slowed by having to cover many weaknesses. It is hard for White to prevent this, and if he stops ...Ng3 another way, it causes other weaknesses.
|Dec-07-13|| ||parisattack: <TheFocus ....With the Four Pawns Attack, White must strike hard and fast. Any tempo loss gives Black a better game than he normally gets.>|
Fully concur. You're burning the bridges behind you with the 4P - not a move to waste.
Here's a fun 4P game:
S Mariotti vs Gligoric, 1969
|Dec-07-13|| ||parisattack: And, another - courtesy of <Whiteshark>|
V Vepkhvishvili vs Z Rukhadze, 1970
|Dec-27-16|| ||SpiritedReposte: I might be the only one playing 6. ...Na6 in the KID four pawns attack. After an ...e5 and ...c5 counter attack whites center is often blasted to smithereens and left with huge liabilities.|
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