< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 1 OF 2 ·
|Feb-03-04|| ||Whitehat1963: Is this also called the "Trompowsky" or some such? If not, what is, and why isn't it in the opening explorer? |
|Feb-03-04|| ||Benjamin Lau: Isn't the trompowsky 1. d4 Nf6 2. Bg5? |
|Feb-03-04|| ||refutor: trompowksy is stored in Queen's Pawn Game (A45) , better known as 1.d4 Nf6 2. crap where it belongs :) |
|Feb-03-04|| ||Benjamin Lau: The trompowsky is incredibly annoying though, good or not because you know that even though white likes to be a moron by "pinning" something that can't be pinned, you can't rid yourself of the bishop without creating weaknesses (i.e. ...h6, ...g5 and black's kingside is ripe for white sacks; ...Ne4, Bf4 and black has abandoned hypermodern principles- he is occupying the center, but no longer controlling it. The knight on e4 is pathetic and completely misplaced.) |
|Feb-03-04|| ||refutor: it's not pathetic on e4. i've won many a (relatively) nice game in that line. if he's forced to play f3 and e4 to kick the knight, i try to play ...g6, ...d6 etc and get into a line similar to the samisch attack in the KID. an interesting move order is 1.d4 Nf6 2.Bg5 Ne4 3.h4?! as in C Depasquale vs Kudrin, 1986 if i ever play this line (extremely rarely and only in blitz) 3.h4 is what i go for |
|Feb-03-04|| ||Benjamin Lau: I'm glad you have several nice wins, but isn't the Samisch KID not the best thing to transpose into? ;-) The knight doesn't do anything on e4, except give tempo to white after f3. The point of playing ...Nf6 in the first place was to control e4, so what is the point of ...Ne4? It kicks the bishop, but that's about it. I guess you could choose to play ...f5 as a follow up and maybe transpose somehow into the Dutch but that's a rare choice I think. I guess it's a matter of taste mostly. |
|Feb-15-04|| ||matein8: I'm curious as to what is the best continuation for Black after 1.d4 Nf6 2.Bg5. I've been learning the 2...c5 variations and think those lines are promising. I looked on the internet and saw that GM Rogozenko gave a lecture on dealing with the Trompowsky: http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail... but unfortunately that link is only an ad for the lecture and doesn't contain any of his advice. Any help is appreciated. |
|Feb-15-04|| ||drukenknight: matein, instead of 2...c5 try 2...Nd4, Boleslasky invented it 60 years ago.|
I'm not saying it's better or worse, but does force certain moves which is useful to learn how it goes. starting w/ 2...c5 is like entering the tower of babble, everybody is speaking a different language or a different line, so you may be overwhelmed.
so like 2...Nd4 3 h4 (there are several ways to go here, even Bc1 is tricky) 3...c5 (now this move has good effect, try to remember it) 4 Nf3 Qa5+ 5 c3 cxd4 6 Nxd4 Nxg5 7 hxg5 Qxg5
Well who knows? I dunno if those are sound or not, just came up a few minutes ago on blitz.
There is Korch/Karpov game with this, I'll try to find it.
|Feb-15-04|| ||Bitzovich: Korchnoi vs Karpov, 1971 is this the one, dk? |
|Feb-15-04|| ||drukenknight: compare to this game, w/ fascinating endgame presaging the endgames of the 1978 match. |
Korchnoi vs Karpov, 1974
|Feb-16-04|| ||popski: Does this opening have some connection with Eugenio Torre? |
|Feb-16-04|| ||refutor: close, Carlos Torre Repetto |
|Feb-16-04|| ||Gower: Against the tromp I play 2... d5. A solid postion without too much trouble. |
|Feb-16-04|| ||popski: <refutor> But hey, in database you can't find any game that he play with this opening!? |
|Feb-16-04|| ||refutor: yes but he did play 1.d4 2.Nf3 3.Bg5 quite a bit, so they probably just names this line in his honour ;) |
|Feb-16-04|| ||matein8: <Drukenknight, Gower> Thanks for your help.|
DK, I guess that you have a typo and mean 2...Ne4. Yes, I see that's the most popular response according to the opening explorer. I was thinking about Benjamin's objections to 2...Ne4 above, though. In response to 1.d4, I normally play either the NID or the QID and so I find the Tromp annoying when it's forced on me.
So some interesting lines to play against it are:
1.d4 Nf6 2.Bg5 Ne4 3.Bf4 c5 (or d5) e.g. Van der Wiel vs Kasparov, 1982
1.d4 Nf6 2.Bg5 d6 e.g. Vaganian vs Kasparov, 1979
1.d4 Nf6 2.Bg5 d5 e.g. K Richter vs Alekhine, 1941
1.d4 Nf6 2.Bg5 c5 e.g. Janowski vs Nimzowitsch, 1926
|Feb-16-04|| ||drukenknight: matein, yeah thanks. That was a typo. Some fun openings with this:|
1 d4 Nf6 2.Bg5 Ne4 3 h4 c5 4 dxc5 Qa4 5 Nd2 Nxg5 6 hxg5 e6 7 c3 Qxc5 8 Nf3
that was against the computer, but there are there are many ways to go for black on move 5, maybe that's why it's so difficult black has many choices, same thing but with
5....e6 6 c3 Nxg5 7 hxg5 Qxc5 8 Ngf3 Kd8 9 Qe2 h6 10 Nb3 Qd6 11 gxh6 gxh6
there are lots of traps in all of these. But you know what? most white players will not take the c pawn, they just dont like to right off, so instead
3...c5 4 Nc3 Qa4 5 Qd3 Nxf3 6 gxf3 c6 7 Bf4 cxd4 8 Qxd4? ...ewwww, watch the fork.
stuff like that, keep working those moves and see what you come up.
|Feb-16-04|| ||matein8: DK, thanks for the input. BTW, that symbol at the end of my username is the number eight (8), not just the infinity symbol turned on it's side ;-) |
|Mar-03-04|| ||waddayaplay: Also, the simple 2...e6 is playable, and 2...g6 is a solid choice. |
|Mar-24-04|| ||ruylopez900: Is there a Torre Attack that isn't the Tartakower Variation?? |
|Apr-19-04|| ||Vischer: Is this named after Eugenio Torre, Carlos Torre Repetto, or Gonzalez De La Torre, Santiago? |
|Apr-19-04|| ||Dillinger: <vischer> see refutor's post above |
|Apr-19-04|| ||Vischer: Ah, Carlos Torre Repetto. |
|Aug-03-04|| ||cuendillar: <ruylopez900> Yes, the main line goes 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 e6 3.Bg4 and is categorized as A46.
When blacks second move is d5, g6 or b6 it is also called Torre Attack. |
|Sep-24-04|| ||Knight13: I usually play this when playing Queen's Pawn Game. |
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