| Sep-17-03 | | Kenkaku: This opening used to be massively popular in the early 20th century. I suppose overanalyzation was it's demise. |
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| Sep-17-03 | | Shadout Mapes: Or analyzation that it sucks for black. I believe Nick DeFirmian said it reached it's highest popularity during the 1927 Capablanca - Alekhine championship, "a serious candidate for the most boring world championship match ever." |
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| Sep-17-03 | | Kenkaku: What's the general refutation then? It looks solid enough to me, good for the positional player, though I can see how it would not suit many players' styles. |
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| Sep-18-03 | | Benjamin Lau: Like in Philidor's opening, there is no refutation. The problem with the opening is that black has overly passive play, like in the Ruy Lopez. Space tends to be a major problem in both as well. |
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| Sep-18-03 | | Kenkaku: I didn't mean a real refutation, I meant more of white's plan (specific move improvements perhaps) that gives black enough difficulties to make it undesirable to most serious players. Supposedly the Petrosian system had such improvements found for black, and thus fell out of use (though Kramnik beat Kasparov with it twice in 1995 I believe, and I don't really see any major flaws). I see the comparison to the Ruy Lopez, though I think black can gain a bit more active play than in the Orthodox honestly. Then again I'm familiar with the black side of the Ruy Lopez (playing the whiteside myself necessitates it) while I'm not familiar with the black side of the Orthodox after the initial stage. |
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| Sep-18-03 | | Benjamin Lau: White's plan is simple to that in the other QGD lines. The main advantages white has is in greater space, superior pawn structure, superior and development. Except for pawn structure, none of these are of great effect for long so one main idea might be to advance further on the queenside to shutdown all of black's counterplay. Generating activity on the c-file is also a common idea (but I'm probably teling you stuff that you already know). Actually though, I think almost any plan would really work because black (in my opinion) stands inferior everywhere- in the center because he's going to lose a center pawn, in the kingside because he has much less space than white, in the queenside (white gets the c file). I usually get along fine playing any plan I see on the way. |
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| May-05-04 | | ruylopez900: Isn't this the Cambridge Springs Variation? Or has it transposed back into an Orthodox Position? |
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| May-06-04 | | Minor Piece Activity: Cambridge springs has c6, Bb4, and Qa5, etc, this is not Cambridge springs. |
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| May-06-04 | | ruylopez900: <MPA> Thanks for clearing that up. |
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| Mar-26-06 | | drukenknight: Here's a crazy problem from this "boring" opening:
1 d4 Nf6
2. Nf3 e6
3. Bg5 h6
4. Bh4 Be7
5. e3 Ne4
6. Bxe7 Qxe7 (only two games in the chess lab data base, one of them white plays 7 c3 to prevent all this) 7. Bd3 Qb4+
8. c3 Qxb2
9. Bxe4
Okay you tell me what comes next? |
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| Mar-26-06 | | a30seclegend: i was thinking maybe 9...f5 10.Bd3 Qxa1 11.Qb3 Nc6 |
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| Mar-26-06 | | who: <dk> I must be missing something. Doesn't 9...Qxa1 just win? Also, your opening has nothing to do with the QGD Orthodox defense. In fact it's not even a Queens Gambit. |
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| Mar-26-06 | | drukenknight: see? we already have two different view points...
"Doesnt 9...Qxa1 just win?" Doesnt it just lose, who? |
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| Mar-26-06 | | drukenknight: Oh, on the nomenclature thing. THis is the closest opening I could find to the sequnce using opening explorer. its either D60 or D51 or soemthing. Blame the ECO people, dont blame me. |
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| Mar-26-06 | | a30seclegend: im pretty sure without the 9...f5 the queen would soon fall after 9...Qxa1 10.Qb3 with white castling king side and a Ne1 coming up soon. |
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| Mar-26-06 | | a30seclegend: anytime your ready to reveal the answer would be good <drunkenknight> id really like to find out the solution to this problem. |
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| Mar-26-06 | | who: oops. 9...Qxa1 10.Qc2 and black has two rooks and a pawn for a queen and a knight. |
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| Mar-26-06 | | a30seclegend: oh i was under the impression that black could keep the rook given the <only two games in the chess lab data base, one of them white plays 7 c3 to prevent all this> commentary. |
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| Mar-26-06 | | drukenknight: Answers? I dont yet have an answer since the crap pc seems to be hiccupping on it, at the moment. Though I am pretty sure that 9...Qxa1 loses, not exactly the way 30 sec. says, it's even faster...be back later. |
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| Mar-26-06 | | drukenknight: <oh i was under the impression that black could keep the rook given the <only two games in the chess lab data base, one of them white plays 7 c3 to prevent all this> commentary > Exactly, do you see why I will not sit down and play these duffers on the internet? I go to all the trouble to figure out this stuff 6 or 8 moves ahead, even research the games, and this idiot does not even see 7...Qb4+. HEre's how my game went when I took the Rook: 9...Qxa1
10. Qc2 f5
11. Bd3 c5
12. Nfd2 b5
13. dxc5 Nc6
14. Nb3 Nb4
15. cxb4 Qe5
16. Bxb5 forget it this blows, 1-0
See? NOw this guy is going to put in his memoirs how he saw this trap like 15 moves ahead of time. No more, no more. |
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May-01-15
 | | perfidious: <Shadout Mapes....I believe Nick DeFirmian said it reached it's highest popularity during the 1927 Capablanca - Alekhine championship, "a serious candidate for the most boring world championship match ever." > Harry Golombek wrote that, after playing through the games of the match, one rather tended to wish the Orthodox QGD had never been invented. |
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Kibitzing
