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Oct-14-09
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| pawn to QB4: I'm afraid not, TheFocus. It seems clear enough that "Akiwa" is not just "the Polish spelling" as opposed to "Akiva" the "Jewish spelling": it's the way you spell the name if you happen to be a Polish Jew, as Rubinstein was. Nor is "Akiba" the obvious "transliteration in English", because the Polish "w" is equivalent to English "v" not "b". So where did the version "Akiba" come from? Clearly not, as your Rabbi thinks, from the ignorance of those around Rubinstein: many of the top masters of that time, and no doubt many of his other friends, were Jewish themselves and wouldn't have called him that as an error. My guess, for what it's worth, is that when he did English speakers the courtesy of spelling his name in our alphabet, as opposed to the Polish one, he went for "Akiba" - pronounced, as you say, "Akiva". Why? I don't know: but it's often seen as the spelling for the famous Rabbi, presumably a household name to Rubinstein; possibly he was also used to seeing his name in Cyrillic alphabet with its equivalent for "v" looking like "B". |
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Oct-14-09
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| TheFocus: I took my explanation from Donaldson's book regarding the three different ways of spelling. A linguist may offer a better explanation than me as to transliteration. Another example would be "Reuben" pronounced as "Reuven" by Jews but as Reuben by English speakers. I do know some Jews who pronounce their name as Reuben when around English speakers, but use Reuven at home. Another example is the spelling of Dawid Janowsky, another Pole. Still pronounced as David. Avraham or Avram is a other name given for Abraham, but Jews wouldn't say "Abraham". I had a longer explanation in my last post, but it began to sound confusing, so I shortened it. Irregardless, Jews don't write Akiba; I have never seen it done. |
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Oct-14-09
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| pawn to QB4: Fair enough, but here's a noted Masorti Rabbi writing "Akiba" - if my link works: http://www.myjewishlearning.com/tex... ; and though one could certainly imagine Rubinstein being too shy and polite to raise a hand when people misspelled his name, it would seem odd that, if this was an error, it occurred in an era where the great players included Lasker, Reti, Tarrasch, Spielmann, and as far as I know they all went along with it. The form "Akiba" seems to have been used for Rubinstein since his own day and by Jewish masters and writers as much as the rest. |
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Oct-15-09
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| vonKrolock: <Pawn to QB4> So we arrive to the 'never say never' point... <TheFocus> 'Akiwa' makes sense with the background of Polish Authority's Restoration after 1918, as transliteration it's however problematic, needs (for English, Latin, and a lot of 'etc') an explanation that W sounds like V... Just 3 possibilities ?! What about <Akivah>, this form is found too... <עקיבא> = Akiva - Yes, this would be of course the ideal if Akiba had to be discarded <?!> Even so, the simplest a transliteration, best - otherwise we would still adhere, for instance, to things like <Tourguenièff> instead of the simple <Turgenev>, or as the chess world still wants, Ivan Turgenyev |
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Oct-16-09
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| pawn to QB4: Hi vonKrolock, thanks for your research. At least anyone who's read these pages won't make the usual mistake of pronouncing the name with a "b". It would still be useful to the discussion to find out if Rubinstein ever wrote "Akiba" or "Akiva" for the Western audience. If he'd asked my advice I'd have said to go with the latter: it's common Western practice and they'll all say your name correctly. But the former obviously occurs, may well have been used by the master himself, and I suspect that if Akiba is a usurper it's probably too late to drive him from the throne of Rubinstein. Like finding the authentic spelling of "Shakespeare", you're up against established usage. |
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Oct-16-09
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| Bridgeburner: Here's an obituary of Rubinstein published at http://www.jewishgen.org/yizkor/sta... This is a translation, but Rubinstein's first name is spelt <Akiba>, and the writer of the obituary is <Akiva Fett>. Here's an line drawing autographed by Rubinstein but alas he signs only his surname.\: http://www.evrado.com/chess/autogra... Wish I could help more, but that's all I have. |
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Oct-16-09
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| pawn to QB4: Thanks; for me your contribution is decisive: "Akiba" is obviously a valid, if minority, spelling, and one wouldn't expect to see Marc Chagall and Jeanne Tripplehorn corrected to Mark and Jean because those are more usual forms. But, interesting as this discussion has been, I have to leave it. My wife has discovered it. She has no awareness that Akiba Rubinstein is an artist whose work is fit for any national gallery. She is doubled up with laughter at what she sees as a debate about a single letter, evidence for her of the sadness of chess players. |
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Oct-16-09
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| Bridgeburner: I'd say she's dead right. :) |
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Oct-16-09
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| TheFocus: <pawn to QB4> That is funny. On to better things!! Crazy chess players! |
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Oct-16-09
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| pawn to QB4: Cheers TheFocus. You share a name with a great chessplayer. By the way, I've seen his surname spelled Rubinsztein...on second thoughts, maybe better not! |
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Oct-17-09
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| vonKrolock: <Rubinsztein> A case in point... He's called somewhere <"Stawiski most illustrious son">, but the Polish spelling is seen only, if eventually, in Polish sources. A related discussion about different spellings of names is seen in L R Eisenberg page - I would add only that that in parts of the Ukraine conquered by Poland in 1920, the Czarist program in schools until 1917 included Russian Langage, Ukrainian Culture, Foreign Langages (chosen from German, French and English), and optionally ancient Hebrew, Greek or Latin - therefore Polish came as a big novelty: and suddenly everyone had Polish documents and spelling for their names! (Well, everyone knows too that this finished in 1939 and how the end was...) Of course, Rubins<z>tein's city and region were not in that situation, they surelly belonged historically, and belongs always to Poland... |
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| Nov-10-09 |
| przepiorka: Akiba played wunderbar chess |
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Nov-28-09
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| Phony Benoni: I have a quick question about a German phrase, and this seems as good a place as any to ask. http://books.google.com/books?id=uS... Leopold Hoffer is annotating a Rubinstein game here, and gives a quote in "Rubinstein's quaint German" as <"Er liegt schon auf'm Bank'l">, the last word also being spelled "Baenk'l" on the next page. It seems to be related to having a bad or constricted position. The first part comes out "He is already", but the last two words seem too quaint for the translation engines to handle. |
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| Nov-29-09 |
| sneaky pete: <PB> I don't know the expression, but it's apparently derived from the word Bänkel (Baenkel) as in
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C3%A.... |
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Dec-08-09
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| gezafan: What's the verdict on how Rubinstein's name should be pronounced? Does "uh kee vuh rue vin stine" sound accurate? |
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Dec-08-09
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| TheFocus: <gezafan> <What's the verdict on how Rubinstein's name should be pronounced? Does "uh kee vuh rue vin stine" sound accurate?> LOL!! I am not going there again. How about we call him Andrew Rubin? Although, that is how I pronounce it. |
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| Dec-17-09 |
| M.D. Wilson: I think Rubinstein's chess is more interesting than his name, but that's just me. |
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Dec-23-09
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| gezafan: Rubinstein was an absolute master of rook endings. Some of his wins in what appear to be even postions look like magic. Against strong opponents too! |
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| Dec-23-09 |
| returnoftheking: <Er liegt schon auf'm Bank'>
Hij ligt al op de pijnbank? :p |
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Dec-24-09
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| whiteshark: <PB> Bankl or Bänkl sounds like a diminutive form, maybe also Yiddish form (?/'quaint German') of Bank. Likely figurative context:
Schlachtbank - slaughterhouse
Opferbank - sacrificial altar
Folterbank (pijnbank) - rack |
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Dec-26-09
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| gezafan: I've looked at some of Rubinstein's games. A great player! But he sometimes makes some really terrible blunders. If it weren't for his nerves he might have become world champion. He was certainly good enough. |
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| Dec-26-09 |
| returnoftheking: I have the same trouble. If I just could stop making those blunders I will defenitely become a wch. |
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| Dec-30-09 |
| Anyi: At <Phony Benoni> and <whitshark>: "benkl" means "chair" or "stool" in Yiddish - as I'm learning Yiddish, I'll enquire whether there is a Yiddish saying that involves "lign oyf a benkl". I have a Yiddish (Rubinstein's mother tongue) text about Rubinstein and the this texts leaves no doubt about how his given name is written: it's "Akiva". |
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Dec-30-09
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| TheFocus: <Anyi> It is nice to see you back. I will get you that material I promised you as soon as possible. Been working on a lot of projects. Look for it within ten days. Scold me if you don't have it by then. I will send the English part this weekend, and the German within ten days. <I have a Yiddish (Rubinstein's mother tongue) text about Rubinstein and the this texts leaves no doubt about how his given name is written: it's "Akiva".> Well, that should end the debate. Anyi is a leading Rubinstein expert at CG. Please see her profile for her fine website devoted to Akiva Rubinstein. |
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| Dec-30-09 |
| Anyi: Am looking forward to hearing from you <TheFocus>. "Akiba" is the German version of "Akiva", as you can see from the Wikipedia article on the famous Rabbi Akiva ben Josef: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabbi_... It may be that Rubinstein went for the German version of his name when he played his first international tournament in Barmen and continued to do so in Karlsbad etc, but went on to refer to himself as "Akiva" at home. |
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