< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 93 OF 93 ·
|Jun-22-16|| ||cunctatorg: I fully realized Anatoly Karpov's worthiness not during his matches vs. Korchnoi but during his matches versus Garry Kasparov and his general performance from 1984 until ..., say, 1996-98. During that process of my mind, I was also able to fully realize Korchnoi's worthiness and after that I started to speak for the F-K-K-K (a.k.a. FKKK) group/quartet that changed chess for ever!... My point about that FKKK term is that Bobby Fischer's almost unbelievable legacy survived and became the main paradigm and measure of chess "leadership" only because the three K were able to revive and (in some measure...) to repeat his chess achievements for three decades in a row! Without the three K, everybody would believe that Bobby Fischer had been just a paradox of the nature or, even, a figment of our imagination...|
What about Victor Korchnoi? Back, at 1972, Bobby Fischer was 29 years old but Victor Korchnoi was already 41 years old... During the next eight years Korchnoi fully proved that he was able to take Fischer's challenge and also dominate the chess world, only in some measure of course!... Well, Korchnoi was the one and only member of the "old" Soviet School of chess who was able to achieve that, for example he crushed Boris Spassky at 1977 almost (almost, in SOME measure etc.) Bobby had done at 1972 and Anatoly Karpov had repeated two years later; the same year (1977) he had crushed in a similar manner Lev Polugaevsky, not with a 6-0 score of course but with a score ALMOST like that! Therefore he proved himself fully capable to take Fischer's challenge and continue his legacy though I must point out that the FKKK quartet had started by an F, not any K!...
Victor Korchnoi achieved more of course than being a member of the FKKK quartet; his longevity, his ambition to teach and, subsequently, to try to change the chess world, his responsibility and all. Anatoly Karpov was capable to carry positional chess to an unbelievable level of domination on (? - excuse my poor English please) chess and Garry Kasparov to prove that attacking chess was able for an even greater domination and that Alexander Alekhine wasn't just another chess paradox during a "special" era, namely just the third and fourth decade of the 20th century...
These men were also able to not repeat Alekhine's or Capablanca's fatal error and their ability to learn from history and withstand fear, hate and similar negative emotions is perhaps their greatest achievement!!
Which is that "fatal error"? Well, Alekhine should realize that the quality of his life and chess was fully dependent from his competition with Capablanca and the same hold for JRC also; they didn't and their life followed a bad turn... Korchnoi, Karpov and Kasparov were able to be into that dangerous competition and their life didn't follow any bad turn!! Imho, that is quite something!!
A last but not least proof: Garry Kasparov's "Modern Chess Theory" just analyses all his games with Anatoly Karpov!! Bingo!!
|Jun-23-16|| ||isemeria: I just realized that Korchnoi (b. 1931) was born was 5 years before Tal (b. 1936).|
|Jun-24-16|| ||Granny O Doul: Do you suppose Korchnoi used to take Tal's milk money in the schoolyard?|
|Jun-25-16|| ||brankat: It's only today I learned Victor Korchnoi had passed away. R.I.P.|
|Jun-27-16|| ||Stalwart: Viktor Korchnoi has been captured by death. Now he waits with all others for resurrection to life and glory or shame and death again. Gotta update my book now not that I didn't have many reasons already.|
|Jun-28-16|| ||diagonal: Yasser Seirawan's heartfelt tribute to Viktor Korchnoi:|
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4... (video 5:15 minutes, starting with an intro of 15s by the Grand Chess Tour)
|Jul-14-16|| ||SetNoEscapeOn: <In the year 1967... the Soviet State celebrated, more or less, 50 years of its existence... |
In order to commemorate this date, they organized two big international tournaments. Well, there were even rumors that Bobby Fischer was ready- was eager- to take part in these tournaments, even without any extra fee!
They thought it over, and decided not to invite him... What the hell would happen if an American won a tournament to commemorate 50 years of the Soviet State?>
Korchnoi, My Life For Chess
|Jul-14-16|| ||alexmagnus: 1967 was 50 years of the Russian Revolution (and, thereby, the Soviet <power> in Russia - though one can debate how far that power went during the following Russian Civil War). The Soviet Union was founded five years after the revolution. In non-Russian parts of the future union it took much longer for the Soviets to get foot at (Ukraine f.x. was still not full under the Bolshevik control by the early 1921. That's why the first capital of the socialist Ukraine was not Kiev but Kharkov).|
|Jul-14-16|| ||kingfu: That's our Viktor! How many Champions did the Soviet Union "borrow" from the Ukraine, Armenia and the Baltic States?|
The Soviets even "borrowed" the part of Finland where Botvinnik was born!
|Aug-04-16|| ||brankat: In the last 20 years, or so, how many of the GMs residing in the USA have been "borrowed"? More than half? |
Nothing wrong with that.
|Aug-04-16|| ||HeMateMe: my college team had two Russians on the 'A' team. I asked newly emigrated Dimitri about adjusting to life in the USA and he said "Vee ARR amariKENs!" Good enough for me.|
|Aug-05-16|| ||alexmagnus: Yes, many "locals" around the world think immigrants feel themselves alien in their new country. But from both my personal experience (born in Russia, grew up in Ukraine, living in Germany since the age of 15, identifying myself as German) and people I know, immigrants identify themselves with their new country ever oftener than with their old one.|
|Aug-05-16|| ||HeMateMe: attending Russian schools, as a youth, do they teach the hard existence of Russia in the 20th century, all of the civil war killing in the Red/White fight 1919-1923, Stalin's 1937-38 purges of the military officer cadre (with the resulting disasters v. Germany), and the low standard of living in the USSR during it's existence?|
I've often wondered about that, because Russians on this site never identify themselves. I had a hunch you were Russian, because of your knowledge of Russia in WWII. Did you get that on your own (perhaps while living in Europe) or do they actually teach the good and the bad about Russia in public schools?
Certainly the USA isn't perfect here, either. It was a long time before our under age 18 textbooks talked about the raw deal the American Indians got (300 broken treaties, almost every land deal reneged on by the government), atrocities committed in Vietnam, and so forth. Slowly, these things are being talked about.
I think Germany has the same problem--they won't own up to what the Germans did in WWII, at least not to their own impressionable youth.
|Aug-05-16|| ||alexmagnus: Well, you are wrong about both Russia and Germany.
I never studied in Russia, but in Ukraine - still, we were often using Russian or even Soviet textbooks, as Ukraine seems to be incapable of producing own textbooks :D. I went the entire way from elementary school to undergraduate in Ukraine and repeated the last three years of high school in Germany (because Germany does not recognize Ukrainian undergraduate certificates).
First, Ukraine. The Russian Civial war is covered very sparsely, only to the extend needed to understand the chaos in Ukraine itself during the years 1917-1921. Of course, we learned that there was such a war and that the Reds won, but no particular battles or anything big about how the war went. Red/White terror also goes down because of it.
As for Stalin's Great Terror of 1937-38 (it were not only army purges. 1% of the population was killed and almost in each bigger family someone arrested). It is covered quite extensively. But it doesn't prevent from many seeing Stalin positive. I actually had many opportunities to talk to those Stalinists - they either think the terror was necessary or say it were local governors who committed the crimes, while Stalin wanted to kill real enemies only (somehow they are not disturbed by the fact that many of those lists of people to be shot or arrested were signed by Stalin himself, and there is at least one instance known of Stalin almost doubling requested number of people to be shot).
As for Germany. WWII is covered broadly, including the crimes - most notably the Holocaust. But some teachers don't like talking about it. I remember, during an English lesson we read some English book (not about the war), and the words "concentration camp" were mentioned in the book. The teacher: "Do you know what it is?" Student: "Konzentrationslager" (German for concentration camp). Teacher: "Don't say the word!". The same English teacher also hated when people referred to the historical First and Second British empire, because the expression "Xth empire" reminded her of the Third empire - that is, Nazi Germany.
|Aug-05-16|| ||HeMateMe: that's very informative. Thank you. I had the feeling that things were more hushed up than you describe. Perhaps they were, back in the old USSR. It seems you grew up in the Yeltsyn/putin era.|
I doubt the Japanese textbooks have much to say about the atrocities committed by their country in the 1930s and '40s. Ditto for China and Mao's horror show.
|Aug-05-16|| ||brankat: Throughout history every country has had some skeletons in their closets.|
|Aug-05-16|| ||HeMateMe: then the USSR has an Imelda Marcos sized closet full of skeletons.|
|Aug-06-16|| ||brankat: Pretty much the same with the USA. And I don't mean shoes.|
|Aug-07-16|| ||HeMateMe: The terror, the killing AFTER the reds had defeated the whites in the Russian civil war was horrific. A few million dead. Stalin's legacy of gulag camps--another five million dead? His purges of 37-38, beheading Russia's officer corp, allowing Hitler two years of easy victories--ten million dead soldiers and civilians? after WWII, more purges and the gulag goes on--another five million murdered? Stalin sends Russian, Baltic and central Asians where were in german custody into the gulag because he felt they were untrustworthy--another two million dead soviet citizens?|
You see anything like that going on in the USA, a slave race killing and spying on each other? People by the hundreds of thousands, sent to prison via show trials. A police state.
|Aug-07-16|| ||alexmagnus: <The terror, the killing AFTER the reds had defeated the whites in the Russian civil war was horrific>|
Hm, there was terror (from both Reds and Whites) during the civil war, with millions dead. In the immediate aftermath it actually became quite quiet, before a wave of arrests in the late 1920s/early 1930s (mostly arrests, no killings).
As for USSR generally, depending on the ruler it changed quite dramatically. Even under the same ruler it changed - Stalin had two waves of terror (the Great Terror of 1937-38 and a short spark in show trials in the year preceding his death), plus there was of course the Holodomor (an artificial famine of 1932-33, with the aim to break peasants' opposition to Stalin by extreminating the opposers) but was relatively mild in the times in-between .
|Aug-07-16|| ||HeMateMe: the previous poster was implying that state killings in the USA were somehow on the same scale as in the USSR, and it isn't even close. Stalin killed on a level matched only by Hitler. He was demonic, and he is/was the face of the USSR, for better or worse.|
the USA misdeeds aren't in the same league as what occurred in the old USSR.
|Aug-07-16|| ||john barleycorn: < HeMateMe: ...
the USA misdeeds aren't in the same league as what occurred in the old USSR.>
I need to double-check this with NZ's foremost authority on US terrorism, racism and food poisonings by halal cooked burgers.
|Aug-07-16|| ||Fusilli: <alexmagnus: Yes, many "locals" around the world think immigrants feel themselves alien in their new country. But from both my personal experience (born in Russia, grew up in Ukraine, living in Germany since the age of 15, identifying myself as German) and people I know, immigrants identify themselves with their new country ever oftener than with their old one.>|
Or feel identified equally with both. I was born in Argentina and have been living in the US for 21 years now. The US is my home, I care much more about what happens in the US than in Argentina, and I feel more comfortable in the US (not only materially). I became a US citizen and identify with the US. Yet, I feel Argentine too (especially when it's World Cup time!)
|Aug-07-16|| ||perfidious: <Fusilli>, a futbol man to the core!|
|Aug-08-16|| ||Fusilli: <perfidious: <Fusilli>, a <futbol> man to the core!>|
There's the correct spelling!
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 93 OF 93 ·