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Kasparov 
Photograph courtesy of kasparovagent.com.  
Garry Kasparov
Number of games in database: 2,347
Years covered: 1973 to 2012
Last FIDE rating: 2812
Highest rating achieved in database: 2851
Overall record: +781 -118 =769 (69.9%)*
   * Overall winning percentage = (wins+draws/2) / total games
      Based on games in the database; may be incomplete.
      679 exhibition games, odds games, etc. are excluded from this statistic.

MOST PLAYED OPENINGS
With the White pieces:
 Sicilian (192) 
    B30 B40 B31 B50 B33
 Ruy Lopez (102) 
    C92 C84 C97 C67 C80
 Nimzo Indian (86) 
    E32 E34 E21 E20 E46
 Queen's Gambit Declined (81) 
    D37 D31 D35 D30 D38
 Queen's Indian (80) 
    E12 E15 E17 E16
 Slav (62) 
    D19 D10 D15 D11 D17
With the Black pieces:
 Sicilian (342) 
    B90 B84 B82 B83 B22
 King's Indian (158) 
    E92 E97 E76 E60 E75
 Sicilian Najdorf (111) 
    B90 B92 B97 B93 B96
 Grunfeld (98) 
    D85 D97 D76 D78 D87
 Sicilian Scheveningen (70) 
    B84 B82 B83 B80 B81
 English (34) 
    A15 A10 A11 A13
Repertoire Explorer

NOTABLE GAMES: [what is this?]
   Kasparov vs Topalov, 1999 1-0
   Karpov vs Kasparov, 1985 0-1
   Kasparov vs Kramnik, 1994 1-0
   Kramnik vs Kasparov, 1994 0-1
   Kasparov vs Karpov, 1990 1-0
   Kasparov vs Anand, 1995 1-0
   Karpov vs Kasparov, 1993 0-1
   Kasparov vs Portisch, 1983 1-0
   Adams vs Kasparov, 2005 0-1
   Kasparov vs Karpov, 1986 1-0

WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS: [what is this?]
   Karpov-Kasparov World Championship Match (1984)
   Karpov-Kasparov World Championship Match (1985)
   Karpov-Kasparov World Championship Rematch (1986)
   Kasparov-Karpov World Championship Match (1987)
   Kasparov-Karpov World Championship Match (1990)
   Kasparov-Short World Championship Match (1993)
   Kasparov-Anand World Championship Match (1995)
   Kasparov-Kramnik World Championship Match (2000)

NOTABLE TOURNAMENTS: [what is this?]
   Linares (1994)
   10th Euwe Memorial (1996)
   Tilburg Fontys (1997)
   Novgorod (1997)
   Linares (1997)
   Linares (1999)
   Sarajevo (2000)
   Wijk aan Zee Corus (2000)
   Astana (2001)
   Bled Olympiad (2002)
   Russian Championships 2004 (2004)
   XXII Torneo Ciudad de Linares (2005)

GAME COLLECTIONS: [what is this?]
   Garry Kasparov's Best Games by KingG
   Kasparov's super simuls by crawfb5
   Match Kasparov! by amadeus
   senakash's favorite games by senakash
   Size GAZA by lonchaney
   kasparov best games by brager
   senakash's favorite games qgd by senakash
   Guess-the-Move Chess: 1990-1999 (Part 3) by Anatoly21
   KASPAROV GAMES by gambitfan
   Road to the Championship - Garry Kasparov (I) by Fischer of Men
   senakash's favorite games mini by senakash
   senakash's favorite games ruylopez by senakash
   Garry Kasparov's Greatest Chess Games (Stohl) by AdrianP
   senakash's favorite games garry by senakash

GAMES ANNOTATED BY KASPAROV: [what is this?]
   Kasparov vs Karpov, 1987
   Kasparov vs Igor Ivanov, 1978

Search Sacrifice Explorer for Garry Kasparov
Search Google for Garry Kasparov
FIDE player card for Garry Kasparov


GARRY KASPAROV
(born Apr-13-1963) Azerbaijan (citizen of Russia)
PRONUNCIATION:
[what is this?]
One of the greatest players of all time, Kasparov was undisputed World Champion from 1985 until 1993, and Classical World Champion from 1993 until 2000. Known to chess fans world wide as the <Beast From Baku> on account of his aggressive and highly successful style of play, his main early influence was the combative and combinative style of play displayed by Alexander Alekhine.

Early Years

Originally named Garry Kimovich Weinstein (or Weinshtein), he was born in Baku, in what was then the Azerbaijan Soviet Socialist Republic (now the Republic of Azerbaijan), and is the son of Klara Shagenovna Kasparova and Kim Moiseyevich Weinstein. At five years old, young Garry Weinstein taught himself how to play chess from watching his relatives solve chess puzzles in a newspaper. His immense natural talent was soon realized and from age 7, he attended the Young Pioneer Palace in Baku (where for some time he was known as "Garry Bronstein".*). At 10, he began training at the Mikhail Botvinnik Soviet chess school. He was first coached by Vladimir Andreevich Makogonov and later by Alexander Shakarov. Five years after his father's untimely death from leukaemia, the twelve year old chess prodigy adopted the Russian-sounding name Garry Kasparov (Kas-PARE-off) a reference to his mother's Armenian maiden name, Gasparyan (or Kasparian).

Championships

Junior Twelve-year old Kasparov won the Soviet Junior Championship, held in Tbilisi in 1976 scoring 7/9, and repeated his success in 1977, winning with a score of 8˝ of 9. The next several years were spent marking his rise as a world-class talent. He became World Junior Champion in 1980 in Dortmund, the same year he earned the grandmaster title.

National He first qualified for the Soviet Chess Championship at age 15 in 1978, the youngest ever player at that level. He won the 64-player Swiss system tournament at Daugavpils on tiebreak over Igor Vasilievich Ivanov, to capture the sole qualifying place. He was joint Soviet Champion in 1980-81 with Lev Psakhis ** and in 1988 Kasparov and Anatoly Karpov tied in the Super-Soviet Championship***. In 2004, Garry Kasparov won the Russian Championships 2004 (2004) with a stunning +5 score.

World On the basis of his result in the 1981 Soviet Championship, which doubled as a zonal tournament for the USSR region, he earned a place in the 1982 Moscow Interzonal tournament, which he won, to qualify for the Candidates Tournament matches that were held in 1983 and 1984. At age 19, he was the youngest Candidate since Robert James Fischer, who was 15 when he qualified in 1958. At this stage, he was already the #2-rated player in the world, trailing only world champion Karpov on the January 1983 list. These Candidates matches were the first and last Candidates matches Kasparov contested, as he declined to participate in the Candidates held under the auspices of the PCA in 2002 to decide a challenger to his successor as classical World Champion, Vladimir Kramnik. Kasparov's first Candidates match in Moscow was a best-of-ten affair against Alexander Beliavsky, whom he defeated 6–3 (+4 -1 =4). After much political ado, Kasparov defeated Viktor Korchnoi in London in the best-of-12 semi-final match by 7–4 (+4 -1 =6), and in early 1984 in Vilnius he defeated former World Champion Vasily Smyslov in the best-of-16 finals played by 8.5-4.5 (+4 =9 -0) to earn his challenge against Karpov. By the time the match with Smyslov was played, Kasparov had become the number-one ranked player in the world with a FIDE rating of 2710. He became the youngest ever world number-one, a record that lasted 12 years until being broken by Vladimir Kramnik in January 1996 and again by his former pupil, Magnus Carlsen in 2010.

At one stage during the Karpov-Kasparov World Championship Match (1984), Kasparov trailed 5-0 in the first-to-win-6 match. He then fought back to win three games and bring the score to 5–3 in Karpov's favour after 48 games, making it the longest world championship match ever. At that point, the match was ended without result by the then FIDE President, the late Florencio Campomanes, with Karpov thus retaining the title. Further details can be found in the match link at the head of this paragraph. Kasparov won the best-of-24 games Karpov-Kasparov World Championship Match (1985) in Moscow by 13–11, winning the 24th and last game with Black. He was then 22, the youngest ever World Champion, and broke the record held by Mikhail Tal for over 20 years. Karpov exercised his right to a rematch, the Karpov-Kasparov World Championship Rematch (1986), which took place in 1986, hosted jointly in London and Leningrad, with each city hosting 12 games. Kasparov scored of 12˝–11˝, retaining the title. The fourth match, the Kasparov-Karpov World Championship Match (1987) in Seville. Karpov had been directly seeded into and won the final match of the Candidates' Matches to again become the official challenger. Kasparov retained his title by winning the final game and drawing the match 12–12. The fifth and last championship match between the two, Kasparov-Karpov World Championship Match (1990), was held in New York and Lyon in 1990, with each city hosting 12 games. Kasparov won by 12˝–11˝. In their five world championship matches, the combined game tally was +21 -19 =104 in Kasparov’s favour.

Kasparov subsequently defended his title against Nigel Short under the auspices of the PCA in 1993, and against Viswanathan Anand in 1995. Five years later, in 2000 (Kasparov-Kramnik World Championship Match (2000)), Kasparov finally relinquished his crown to his former student, Vladimir Kramnik who was granted the right to challenge without having to qualify, the first time this had happened since 1935, when Alexander Alekhine selected Max Euwe as his challenger. Subsequently, Kasparov remained the top rated player in the world, ahead of both Kramnik and the FIDE World Champions, on the strength of a series of wins in major tournaments.

Under the "Prague Agreement” which was put together by Yasser Seirawan to reunite the two titles, Kasparov was to play a match against the 2002 FIDE World Champion Ruslan Ponomariov in September 2003. But this match was cancelled when Ponomariov was dissatisfied with the terms of the contract. Subsequent plans for a match against 2004 FIDE World Champion Rustam Kasimdzhanov, to be held in January 2005 in the United Arab Emirates fell through due to lack of funding. Shortly after this, Kasparov announced his retirement from competitive chess.

In an interview in 2007, Kasparov said that <…my decision in 1993 to break away from the world chess federation, FIDE, with Nigel Short was the worst mistake of my career. It was a serious miscalculation on my part. I thought we could start fresh with a professional organisation, but there was little support among the players. It led to short-term progress in commercial sponsorship for chess, but in the long run hurt the game...> ****

Classical Tournaments

In 1978, Kasparov won the Sokolsky Memorial tournament in Minsk as a wild card entry, a victory which convinced Kasparov he could aim for the World Championship. He played in a grandmaster tournament in Banja Luka, Yugoslavia in 1979 while still unrated, due to Korchnoi’s withdrawal. He took first place with an undefeated record, two points ahead of the field. Game Collection: Banja Luka 1979 He emerged with a provisional rating of 2595, immediately landing at world number 15, a feat only surpassed by Gata Kamsky in July 1990. His first win in a superclass-level international tournament was scored at Bugojno, Yugoslavia in 1982 and his win in Linares in 2002 is the tenth victory in a record for the most consecutive victories in super tournaments: Linares 4 (1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, Wijk aan Zee 3 (1999, 2000, 2001), Sarajevo 2 (1999, 2000) and Astana 1 (2001). Kasparov also holds the record for most consecutive professional tournament victories, placing first or equal first in 15 individual tournaments from 1981 to 1990. It started with the 1981 USSR Championship and finished in Linares in 1990. His five epic title matches against Karpov were held during this period. Subsequently, Kasparov won Linares again in 1992, 1993, 1997, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002 and 2005, the latter being his swan song from the game.

Olympiads

Kasparov played in eight Olympiads. He represented the Soviet Union four times, in 1980, 1982, 1986 and 1988, and Russia four times: in 1992, 1994, 1996 and 2002 playing board 1 on each occasion apart from 1980 (2nd reserve) and 1982 (2nd board). In 82 games, he scored (+50 =29 -3), for 78.7% and won a total of 19 medals, including 8 team gold medals, 5 board golds, 2 performance golds, 2 performance silvers and 2 board bronzes. Kasparov also represented the USSR once in Youth Olympiad competition at Graz in 1981, when he played board 1 for the USSR board 1, scoring 9/10 (+8 =2 -0), the team winning the gold medal.

Team chess

Kasparov made his international teams debut for the USSR at age 16 in the 1980 European Team Championship at Skara and played for Russia in the 1992 edition of that championship. He won a total of five medals including at Skara 1980, as USSR 2nd reserve, 5˝/6 (+5 =1 -0), team gold, board gold and at Debrecen 1992, Russia board 1, 6/8 (+4 =4 -0), team gold, board gold, performance silver.

Matches

<Computer> Kasparov defeated the chess computer Deep Thought (Computer) in both games of a two-game match in 1989. In February 1996, he defeated IBM's chess computer Deep Blue (Computer) with three wins and two draws and one loss. In 1997, an updated version of Deep Blue defeated Kasparov 3˝–2˝ in a highly publicised six-game match. The match was even after five games but Kasparov lost Game 6 - Deep Blue vs Kasparov, 1997 - to lose the match. This was the first time a computer had ever defeated a world champion in match play. In January 2003, he played and drew a six game FIDE Man-Machine WC (2003) match against Deep Junior (Computer). In November 2003, he played and drew a four-game Man-Machine World Chess Championship (2003) against the computer program X3D Fritz (Computer) X3D Fritz, although he was constrained through the use of a virtual board, 3D glasses and a speech recognition system.

<Human – classical> Kasparov played several matches apart from his matches in the World Championship cycles. Full details can be seen at Game Collection: Match Kasparov!.

<Human – rapid> In 1998, Kasparov played a blitz match against Kramnik in Moscow, that match being drawn +7-7=10. He fared better in the 2000 internet blitz match against Judit Polgar, winning one and drawing one. The following year, he played a blitz match against the many times Greek speed chess champion Hristos Banikas of Greece, winning 5 and drawing one. In his 2002 blitz against Elisabeth Paehtz in Munich, he won 6-0. Later in 2002, Kasparov lost a four game rapid match (+1 -2 =1) over two days in December 2002 in New York City against Anatoly Karpov. In 2009 in Valencia, Spain, he again played Karpov, and won the Kasparov-Karpov Rapid Match (2009) 3-1 and the Kasparov-Karpov Blitz Match (2009) by 6-2. In 2011, as part of his Chess In Schools campaign, he played a two game Kasparov-Lagrave Blitz Match (2011) in Clichy France, winning by 1.5-0.5. A few months later in October 2011, he won the Kasparov-Short Blitz Match (2011) 4.5-3.5 (+3 -2 =3), breaking the deadlock after game 7 by winning game 8 to win the match.

<Simuls> In 1985, Kasparov played his first simul against a team, the Hamburg Bundesliga team lead by GM Murray Chandler, and lost 3.5-4.5, the first and only time he lost a simul against a team. In 1987, he played a simul against the same albeit slightly stronger team, but this time he was prepared and crushed the Hamburg players 7-1; later in 1987 he also crushed the Swiss team: Game Collection: Kasparov vs Swiss Team Simul by 5.5-0.5, drawing only with former World Junior Champion Werner Hug. In 1988 he played a simul against the French team in Evry (Game Collection: Kasparov vs French Team Simul), winning 4, drawing one and losing one; he played the French team again in 1989 (Game Collection: Kasparov vs French Team Simul 1989), this time winning three and drawing 3 games. Also in 1988 he played a simul against a group of powerful US Juniors, and won by 4-2 (+3 -1 =2)*****. In 1992, Kasparov played a clock simul against the German team ( Game Collection: Kasparov vs German National Team Simul) which included former title contender Vlastimil Hort with whom he drew, winning 2 and drawing 2. He played a simul against the Argentinean team (Game Collection: Kasparov vs Argentinian Team Simul) winning (+7 -1 =4); in 1998 he played the Israeli team (Game Collection: Kasparov vs Israeli National Team Simul) winning 7-1, and in 2001 he played the Czech team (Game Collection: Kasparov vs Czech National Team Simul) in Prague, winning by +4 -1 =3.

Rating

Kasparov's ratings achievements include being rated world #1 according to Elo rating almost continuously from 1986 until his retirement in 2005. He was the world number-one ranked player for 255 months, a record that far outstrips all other previous and current number-one ranked players. Kasparov had the highest Elo rating in the world continuously from 1986 to 2005. However, Vladimir Kramnik equaled him in the January 1996 FIDE ratings list, technically supplanting him because he played more games. He was also briefly ejected from the list following his split from FIDE in 1993, but during that time he headed the rating list of the rival PCA. At the time of his retirement, he was still ranked #1 in the world, with a rating of 2812. In January 1990 Kasparov achieved the (then) highest FIDE rating ever, passing 2800 and breaking Bobby Fischer's old record of 2785. On the July 1999 and January 2000 FIDE rating lists Kasparov reached a 2851 Elo rating, which became the highest rating ever achieved until surpassed by Magnus Carlsen in 2013. There was a time in the early 1990s when Kasparov was over 2800 and the only person in the 2700s was Anatoly Karpov.

Other

Under Kasparov's tutelage, Carlsen became the youngest ever to achieve a FIDE rating higher than 2800, and the youngest ever world number one. Kasparov also assisted Anand’s preparation for the Anand-Topalov World Chess Championship (2010) against challenger Veselin Topalov. Since his retirement, Kasparov has concentrated much of his time and energy in Russian politics. He is also a prolific author, most famously his <My Great Predecessors> series. His politics and authorship are discussed at some detail in the wiki article and at his official website cited below. In 2007, he was ranked 25th in The Daily Telegraph's list of 100 greatest living geniuses and has won 11 Chess Oscars.

Kasparov has been married three times: first to Masha, with whom he had a daughter, Polina (b. 1993), before divorcing; to Yulia, with whom he had a son, Vadim (b. 1996) before their 2005 divorce; and to Daria, with whom he also has a daughter, Aida (b. 2006).

Biography: http://www.kasparovagent.com/garry_... Kasparov’s official website: http://kasparov.com/ Kasparov Chess Foundation: http://www.kasparovchessfoundation.... ]

* http://timkr.home.xs4all.nl/chess2/...; ** [rusbase-1]; *** [rusbase-2]; **** [rusbase-3]; ***** http://www.chessbase.com/newsprint....

Wikipedia article: Kasparov


 page 1 of 94; games 1-25 of 2,347  PGN Download
Game  ResultMoves Year Event/LocaleOpening
1. E Kengis vs Kasparov ½-½54 1973 Vilnius LTUB88 Sicilian, Fischer-Sozin Attack
2. Kasparov vs S Muratkuliev 1-032 1973 Baku tt U18C77 Ruy Lopez
3. Kasparov vs O Vasilchenko 1-040 1973 KievC03 French, Tarrasch
4. E Magerramov vs Kasparov 0-135 1973 BakuB54 Sicilian
5. Kasparov vs Averbakh 1-048 1974 Moscow clock simC68 Ruy Lopez, Exchange
6. Kasparov vs B Kantsler 1-032 1975 Junior competitionC00 French Defense
7. Kasparov vs Yurtaev 0-144 1975 BakuB39 Sicilian, Accelerated Fianchetto, Breyer Variation
8. Rizvonov vs Kasparov 0-137 1975 VilniusE17 Queen's Indian
9. Kasparov vs Smyslov 0-130 1975 Team GM/Young PioneersC60 Ruy Lopez
10. Kasparov vs Yermolinsky 0-148 1975 BakuB05 Alekhine's Defense, Modern
11. Einoris vs Kasparov 0-142 1975 BakuB59 Sicilian, Boleslavsky Variation, 7.Nb3
12. Kasparov vs Yermolinsky 0-148 1975 LeningradB67 Sicilian, Richter-Rauzer Attack, 7...a6 Defense, 8...Bd7
13. Dvoirys vs Kasparov ½-½45 1975 BakuB89 Sicilian
14. Kasparov vs A Sokolov 1-032 1975 BakuB67 Sicilian, Richter-Rauzer Attack, 7...a6 Defense, 8...Bd7
15. Karpov vs Kasparov 1-045 1975 LeningradB92 Sicilian, Najdorf, Opocensky Variation
16. Kasparov vs E Kengis ½-½27 1975 BakuB52 Sicilian, Canal-Sokolsky (Rossolimo) Attack
17. O Pavlenko vs Kasparov 0-134 1975 BakuE71 King's Indian, Makagonov System (5.h3)
18. Kasparov vs Polugaevsky ½-½25 1975 LeningradB40 Sicilian
19. Korchnoi vs Kasparov ½-½42 1975 Palace of Pioneers sim.E80 King's Indian, Samisch Variation
20. Kasparov vs Gorelov 1-058 1975 BakuC61 Ruy Lopez, Bird's Defense
21. E Vladimirov vs Kasparov ½-½30 1975 VilniusE17 Queen's Indian
22. Tilichkin vs Kasparov 0-143 1975 BakuB87 Sicilian, Fischer-Sozin with ...a6 and ...b5
23. Kasparov vs Vasalomidze 1-034 1976 TbilisiC72 Ruy Lopez, Modern Steinitz Defense, 5.O-O
24. Kasparov vs A Galle 1-038 1976 WattigniesC05 French, Tarrasch
25. Murey vs Kasparov 0-139 1976 MoscowE76 King's Indian, Four Pawns Attack
 page 1 of 94; games 1-25 of 2,347  PGN Download
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Kasparov on Kasparov: Part I

Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 418 OF 716 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Aug-24-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  brankat: Compared to the above, comrade Stalin emerges as quite a modest man :-)
Aug-24-07  Trinculo: <acirce>
Not that it makes a lick of difference -- but just for the record: a critique of capitalism is one thing; a defense of the repressive, inhuman dictatorship of North Korea is quite another. I simply cannot believe that any sane person could possibly defend this regime. Your views are, quite frankly, appalling -- if not to say frightening. If this is the alternative to the current "rotten" political institutions of Sweden, then I pray your struggle for reform will remain barren.
Aug-24-07  csmath: Like with any other fanatics, the problem with commies is not that they believe in something (in this case the social engineering of human beings) but that they force other people to behave accordingly. When they don't they offer no alternative other than a destruction.

As for US being abomination, I'll just say that we do have serious immigration problems and I do not see these types of problems affecting North Korea. Thus, as much as they get abused and exploited, people still flock here for "better life." Apparently there is no such thing as "better life" in NK.

Aug-24-07  dehanne: This is what happens when one tries to trim a tree "planted by Kim Sung II himself": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axe_Mu...
Aug-24-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  awfulhangover: <<acirce>..It is a multi-party socialist democracy ..> I hope you are joking. It's so weird that I have to compare it with "Arbeit macht frei" above the gate of Auschwitz. Aren't you even a bit disgusted by the scary and bizarre personality cult? Do you believe the official story that "Kim once shot five holes-in-one in a single golf round, got bored and never played the game again." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_... - or other scary/funny nonsense?
You are from Sweden. If you became disabled, would you still prefer NK? How are the gay and lesbians organisations doing there? Wake up!
Aug-24-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  Karpova: <awfulhangover: It's so weird that I have to compare it with "Arbeit macht frei" above the gate of Auschwitz.> Nothing compares to the Holocaust.
Aug-24-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  awfulhangover: <<Eric Schiller>: <awful> Not that this is the place for world politics, but you might consider the formula "communism = socialism plus fascism".> Communism can be a lot of things. And I don't think about what stupid right wing looneys call communism (everything left of themselves or Djenghis Khan). Theoretically it's anything from marxism to stalinism. Marx was anti-state, Stalin was total state control. It's also everything from Pol Pot and North Korea to the Italian Communist party. Only the term 'communism' is shared, but in reality it's bizarre hell in the first cases to moderate social democratics in the latter case. Or, look to India. One state there is governed by communists, but there you find the best health care, the far highest BNP, most equality, absolute free press and so one. So, in fact they are moderate socialist like myself. Not much 'fascism' there. (Fascism is also not what people usually think. Mussolini was not a Pinochet.) And, you mention socialism. In USA that almost means communism in the stalinist sense. To me it means some state control with big companies and economy, strong labour organisation and high enough taxes for the well off to finance a welfare society. But a country that can elect Bush Jr. twice (!!) will never understand why that is good :-) And people who support North Korea understand even less - I would say nothing - about what a good society is.
Aug-24-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  Appaz: <<slomarko> "The hotel is one of the world's largest structures, however, it has been abandoned for 15 years, unfinished."> A Potemkin Village http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potemk...

<<Karpova> Nothing compares to the Holocaust.> A lot of things compare to Holocaust. In modern times Rwanda comes to mind.

Aug-24-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  brankat: <Appaz> I saw in Your profile that You live in Oslo. So, out of curiosity. Just heard on the news this morning that (apparently) Oslo is the most expensive city in the world to live in. Is this true? Thank You.
Aug-24-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  acirce: <Trinculo> I appreciate you being frank. I usually am myself. After all, we might just as well say what we mean.

More than anything else, to me the significance of DPR Korea is that it is an alternative - a real example, in the real world - that shows that we can take a step forward, and that by its very existence if ever so slightly it increases the possibility that others can follow them in taking said step. I was never aware that I had to like or even respect every aspect of the country. To be completely honest, the world as a whole is horrible beyond any possible description, a veritable hellhole: mass suffering, mass killings, enormous poverty, humiliation, oppression, exploitation, the sentence of many hundreds of millions of people to be kept down in the most inhuman misery because of a global system (which is not seriously challenged by so-called "moderate socialism") where literally everything is subordinate to the profit interests of a tiny stratum of people and that is led by one of the most aggressive superpowers that has ever existed.

The reason the propaganda against DPRK is so intense is simple - it is going its own way and challenging the whole World Order by insisting on anti-imperialism, democracy, socialism and freedom. Indeed every movement and every state that has ever taken even modest steps in this direction is demonized, be it DPRK, Cuba or even Venezuela. The lies and misleading pieces of propaganda about Venezuela are grave enough but the reason they are so much graver about DPRK is simply, I suspect, that it is a more closed country which makes it harder to refute them. If the media reporting about Venezuela is on an embarrassingly low level, that is nothing in comparison.

The process of humanity overthrowing a horrendeous system that depends on wars and genocides to secure profits and survival will be very long, very hard and will be full of suffering, defeats, deaths and failures. But it is either to accept this or to give up. It's great that the people of DPRK do not give up, despite repeated disasters and even when threatened by war and destruction.

Now, while I'm at it, something about the DPRK cult of personality, that indeed takes certain bizarre forms: it is for a Westerner a very hard phenomenon to understand, but we should try to do our very best to get rid of self-righteous colonial thinking and see it from the perspective of the Koreans. I would never start to think that it is all perfectly OK, but we shouldn't be overly moralizing about their traditions and their choices. First off, the Western reaction to the cult of Kim Il Sung is usually primarily based on a complete lack of understanding of what the man has meant in Korea's modern history, first as liberator of the land from Japanese occupation and colonial yoke and laying the foundation of modern independent Korea, then as the one who for decades as leader in the North worked successfully for building the socialist state and protecting the interests and independence of the people, state and nation and made himself genuinely loved as the people's great leader.

Aug-24-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  acirce: ...continued. Kim Jong Il's deeds are not at all anywhere near this kind of significance, and the cult of him can be even more questioned, but he is seen as the person who continues the work of his father and has managed to ensure that their dear socialist system has survived despite enormous difficulties. Second, part of it is of course the Confucian tradition with everything that comes with it like the ideas of a strict social hierarchy and great respect for authorities. Not even a socialist state can get rid of deeply enough entrenched ideas in even a century's time - we Swedes are still marked by Luther in everything we do, everything we think. Not that they have really tried the same way China did. It should also be said that the personality cult is <not> just focused on the personalities (leaders) themselves but also and not least on their close connection to the people and the collective. There are many Kim Il Sung statues in the country, for sure, but there are also indeed a lot of statues and monuments of common people, workers, farmers, symbolizing the strength of the whole people. Also, the stories people like to tell about Kim Il Sung and Kim Jong Il contain a strong symbolism overall - they get to personify the whole people's struggles and successes, and they are used as model moral examples for how leaders should live and behave - promoting great democratic ideals like justice and solidarity. Indeed the amount of genuine solidarity is something absolutely fantastic about the country, as far as I can judge and as not just Communists have seen but also Red Cross workers and others who have witnessed this.

Ok, too tired to write more. Perhaps a comment on <Marx was anti-state, Stalin was total state control.> In fact they were both 'anti-state' equally much or equally little - for a future classless and stateless kind of society called communism, but also for a strong state in the hands of the people as long as needed (dictatorship of the proletariat). Marx underestimated the time it would take to reach communism, and in fact didn't believe that socialism would be built in a single country (like the Soviet Union) at all.

Good night.

Aug-24-07  WillC21: <acirce> makes it sound like freedom and intense solidarity are the cornerstones that make N. Korea admirable, albeit not perfect.

How about considering the words(and feelings) of an actual North Korean?

http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/07...

I doubt the average citizen of North Korea feels a great sense of freedom, although I suppose many, sad as it is, might be so desensitized as to not know the difference.

Aug-24-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  JointheArmy: <Just heard on the news this morning that (apparently) Oslo is the most expensive city in the world to live in. Is this true? Thank You.>

I guess they beat out St. Petersburg - it was most expensive city last year I believe. Either that or Moscow.

Aug-24-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  Appaz: <<brankat> Oslo is the most expensive city in the world> That may very well be, usually we compete with Zurich for that "honour".

Norway is expensive in general (although with a high income level so that the locals doesn't notice it as much as a visitor), and because Oslo is by far the largest city it takes most of the pressure of the urbanization.

Aug-24-07  Akavall: <JointheArmy><I guess they beat out St. Petersburg - it was most expensive city last year I believe. Either that or Moscow.>

Had to be Moscow, but then of course, there are different ways to measure 'expensiveness'. Both Moscow and Oslo are very expensive cities to live in, so either one could come up first depending on what the measurements are focused on.

Aug-24-07  Akavall: I think this is the most popular list:

http://money.cnn.com/2007/06/15/pf/...

Aug-24-07  csmath: <acirce: It's great that the people of DPRK do not give up, despite repeated disasters and even when threatened by war and destruction.>

The people there do not really have any choice. It is either to escape any way they can or to "agree" with the "leader."

Aug-25-07  csmath: <acirce: ... horrendeous system that depends on wars and genocides to secure profits and survival...>

Then why do wars occur in socialism? There was a war between USSR and China, between China and Vietnam, between Vietnam and Cambodia.

And how about genocides/massacres in Cambodia, Bosnia/Yugoslavia, China' "cultural" revolution etc?

All of that without any profit?

Aug-25-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  brankat: <Appaz><Akavall> <JTA> Thanks guys. London and Tokyo are probably high on the list, too.

The same news item also claims that Vancouver, Canada, where I happen to live, is currently "the most desirable" city to live in! If I had not heard it on TV, I would have never guessed :-)

Aug-25-07  Akavall: <brankat><London and Tokyo are probably high on the list, too.>

Yeah, there was a list at the bottom of the page I was linking to:

<World's most expensive cities 2007

1. Moscow
2. London
3. Seoul
4. Tokyo
5. Hong Kong
6. Copenhagen
7. Geneva
8. Osaka
9. Zurich
10. Oslo
11. Milan
12. St. Petersburg (Russia)
13. Paris
14. Singapore
15. New York City
16. Dublin
17. Tel Aviv
18. Rome
19. Vienna
20. Beijing>

http://money.cnn.com/2007/06/15/pf/...

<The same news item also claims that Vancouver, Canada, where I happen to live, is currently "the most desirable" city to live in! If I had not heard it on TV, I would have never guessed :-) >

It has to be pretty good at least in the summer time :).

Aug-25-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  brankat: <Akavall> Actually it pretty good here year-round.

We hardly ever get any snow (Scandinavians would not like it:-)). Mostly mild temperatures and incredibly beautiful location.

Mountainous wilderness starts at the very edge of the city. Couple of hours walk from downtown, and You're in an intact, pristine wilderness!

You will also notice, Vancouver is not on the above list :-)

Aug-25-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  brankat: <Akavall> Another important fact. There is a number of breweries, including the mini ones, in Vancouver. Would be Your natural environment :-)
Aug-25-07  achieve: Upon reading <acirce>, <csmath> and <trinculo>'s posts something came up immediately..

These songlyrics by Randy Newman:

When karl marx was a boy
He took a hard look around
He saw people were starving all over the place
While others were painting the town
The public spirited boy
Became a public spirited man
So he worked very hard and he read everything
Until he came up with a plan

Therell be no exploitation
Of the worker or his kin
No discrimination cause of the color of your
Skin
No more private property
It would not be allowed
No one could rise too high
No one could sink too low
Or go under completely like some we all know

If marx were living today
Hed be rolling around in his grave
And if I had him here in my mansion on the hill
Id tell him a story twould give his old heart
A chill

[... (one verse I left out)...]

Oh karl the world isnt fair
It isnt and never will be
<They tried out your plan
It brought misery instead
If youd seen how they worked it
Youd be glad you were dead
Just like Im glad Im living in the land of the
Free
Where the rich just get richer
And the poor you dont ever have to see
<It would depress us, karl
Because we care
That the world still isnt fair>
>
(I couldn't have said it better myself)

-- From his album "Bad Love" --

Randy Newman's additional comment:" I'll admit to a certain anti-imperialism. Ive got stock and yet I root against the stock market every day. I just cant help myself. Im constitutionally a cubs fan. Ive always rooted for Underdogs, and usually they lose. you know why? cause theyre the underdog."

My personal opinion is that <acirce> actually posted a, to me, touching account of his views.. Every system is flawed, by definition, and I do not see a change for the better, neither here nor in North Korea..

UNLESS..

Leading Multi-national Companies, with a few humane CEO's, take matters in their own hands ("looping" traditional political burocratic structures - effectively eventually <pressurizing> them!) and improve the conditions for people in the countries they "exploit" -- The realisation is there within a few companies in Holland - and some initiatives are being put in action already..

That is my only hope, to be honest..

Aug-25-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  brankat: <achieve> <Leading Multi-national Companies, with a few humane CEO's, take matters in their own hands>

I wish I was young and an idealist, too. Sorry to disappoint You my friend, but the M-N Companies will do no such thing. On the contrary. It was when they did take things in their own hands, some decades ago, that things really went downhill.

Humane CEOs? I doubt they would have been chosen/appointed CEOs had they been "'humane" in the first place. Those ones that, perhaps, are, will not last long.

The humanity, together with the rest of life on this planet would have to be on it's deathbed for the realization to truly sink in. By then, of course, it will be too late.

Your views, like <acirce>s are well meaning and sincere, and I sure hope they can materialize in practice, but I just don't believe in it any more.

It is good though, that we still have people who are sincerely hopeful. Without it, there would be nothing good at all left to expect.

I may be too pessimistic about this, but I feel as if we are on a course heading to the eventual collective suicide.

Aug-25-07  achieve: <Humane CEOs? I doubt they would have been chosen/appointed CEOs had they been "'humane" in the first place. Those ones that, perhaps, are, will not last long.> Most of the time, yes, I agree. But I can give a few examples from "overhere" that suggest otherwise..

Of course nothing remotely close to any <critical mass>.

<I may be too pessimistic about this, but I feel as if we are on a course heading to the eventual collective suicide.> I won't disagree with you on that -- At the moment I feel the same way. Pessimistic it may be..

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