< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 1687 OF 1974 ·
|Apr-01-12|| ||HeMateMe: Harry, have you seen the film "Bobby Fischer Against the World"? You would like it, I think. i just saw it, rental. Very well done.|
|Apr-02-12|| ||praterinsel: I thank chessgames.com for having provided me the
opportunity to read here, those who made substantive,
informative or interesting contributions, and all who
were respectful of Fischer.
|Apr-02-12|| ||SimonWebbsTiger: @<HeMateMe>
I saw the doc for the first time about a week ago -- it had its Danish TV premier.
I liked the large amount of footage, some I had never seen before, e.g. when Fischer glares at the TV camera during the 1st Game of the 1972 match. (The start of the Fischer versus Chester Fox saga!)
btw -- does anybody know about Fischer's chess set? The Eastern Europeans have a white bobble on the black bishop miters and a black one on the white bishops I believe; not sure why and did RJF pick that one up in Yugoslavia perhaps?
|Apr-02-12|| ||Maatalkko: http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail...
It's now confirmed that Fischer was correct about 1. e4 e5 2. f4 exf4 3. Nf3 d6! 4. Bc4 h6! 5. d4 g5! being best play for Black. Congratulations Bobby, wish you'd lived to hear the news!
|Apr-02-12|| ||King Death: So it was Tartakower that had it right with 1.e4 e5 2.f4 ef 3.Be2! so many years ago!|
|Apr-02-12|| ||Maatalkko: OK, so I may have been had. Upon further review, the article says [emphasis added]: |
<On March 31> the author of the Rybka program, Vasik Rajlich, and his family moved from Warsaw, Poland to a new appartment in Budapest, Hungary. <The next day>, in spite of the bustle of moving boxes and setting up phone and Internet connections <Vas, kindly agreed to the following interview>, which had been planned some months ago.
I'll be disgusted if this is their idea of a "He he he gotcha!" moment.
|Apr-02-12|| ||Sneaky: <Maatalkko> Thanks for that link to http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail... ... amazing stuff. |
The "TLDR" version is this: that after 3000 CPUs crunched numbers for 4 months straight they concluded what Fischer wrote in his famous pamphlet "A Bust to the King's Gambit": that 3...d6 is a "first class waiting move" that leads to a Black victory. Here's a snippet from the interview:
<Vasik Rajlich> 50 years ago Bobby Fischer published a famous article, "A Bust to the King's Gambit", claiming to have done exactly that. I was curious to see how valid his conclusions were. Turns out they were amazingly accurate. The main line of the King's Gambit, 1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3, is indeed winning for Black. Moreover, the only winning move is 3... d6!, just as Fischer claimed. For instance the more popular 3...g5 allows White to draw after 4.h4! In fact, Fischer's main line holds up incredibly well: 3...d6! 4.Bc4 h6! 5.d4 g5! (an exclam denotes any move which gives a better theoretical result than every alternative), although some side-variations from his article do have inaccuracies.
<Chessbase> Genius or luck?
<Vasik Rajlich> Probably mostly luck. Naturally some of his lines are not accurate: they weave in and out of draws. But the main conclusion is correct.
<Chessbase> So is the King's Gambit really busted?
<Vasik Rajlich> No, just if White plays 3.Nf3. Incidentally 3.Bc4 loses as well to 3...Nf6! (incredibly every other move allows White to draw). But this is where the fun begins. It turns out that the weird looking 3.Be2! leads to a draw. In fact we found that 3.Be2! is the only move that avoids a white loss.
"Mostly luck", haha. Like Capablanca said, "The good players are always lucky."
|Apr-02-12|| ||Sneaky: <I'll be disgusted if this is their idea of a "He he he gotcha!" moment.> that reminds me of mathematician and puzzle aficionado Martin Gardner who once published in his newspaper column that "Computer scientists have proven that the game of chess is a draw, with perfect play." It was April 1st.|
In this case though, I think it's legit. A few years back Chessbase got a lot of criticism for publishing an April fool's gag that was a few days late. (They saved it up for some PlayChess broadcast or something.) I really doubt they'll make that mistake again.
|Apr-02-12|| ||JoergWalter: chessbase tried to crack a joke on april 1, 2008 shortly after Fischer's death. They produced fake emails showing that Fischer was advising Miles to play 1....a6 against Karpov's 1.e4, advising Kasparov in the 1984 match, advising Leko in his match with Kramnik etc. etc..|
I'm a bit sceptical about this latest chessbase article.
Anyway, here is Fischer's original article:
Fischer's system against the King's Gambit was meant to show that after 3....d6 white is forced to play 4.Bc4 and after h6 5.d4 g5 6.0-0 white has to switch to the Hanstein variation which can also may result from 3....g5 4.Bc4 Bg7 5.0-0.
What Fischer did not discuss is this:
3....d6 4.d4 g5 5.h4 g4 6.Ng1
and now black has to play carefully
|Apr-02-12|| ||boz: <SimonWebbsTiger> The <Dubrovnik> chess set was apparently Bobby's favourite. I'm sure I have heard an interview with him in Yugoslavia in which he said so. I couldn't find a link. Maybe I read it in Brady. This is from a chess set dealer's website:|
<DUBROVNIK 1950 - maple & walnut - chess pieces
In 1950 the IX. chess olympiade was held in Dubrovnik (Croatia). Teams from 16 countries participated in it, and after 480 matches the Yugoslav team won the gold medal, Argentina silver, and West Germany bronze.
Especially for this occasion a new set of chessmen was made, under the name "Dubrovnik". It was well accepted by the chess world, due to an elegant and interesting look. The design was made by Andrija Mauroviè, a famous Yugoslav cartoon writer, and pieces were made in the workshop of master Jakovljeviè in Zagreb.
By many sources these were the favorite pieces of WORLD CHAMPION BOBBY FISCHER (pictures), and were also used in the Spassky - Fischer 1992 rematch in Sveti Stefan (picture).
With a help of mr. M. Hannon from GB we came across interesting radio interview with Bobby Fischer, where he mentioned the set "Dubrovnik". You can find interview in our gallery, while we should only mentione short part of Bobby's comment: "THIS IS THE BEST SET I HAVE EVER PLAYED ON. IT IS MARVELLOUS.">
<On following links you can also find videos of Bobby Fischer playing with a Dubrovnik set. He certainly liked it!!!
|Apr-02-12|| ||JoergWalter: a couple of illustrative games with the Fischer's defense and 6.Ng1:|
A Bangiev vs F Mayr, 1987
A Planinc vs Portisch, 1973
Popovych vs Spassky, 1986
Hebden vs Psakhis, 1986
A Bangiev vs Lymar, 1988
Sevelev vs J Klovans, 1980
|Apr-02-12|| ||JoergWalter: <In fact we found that 3.Be2! is the only move that avoids a white loss.>|
a few examples
Bird vs J Mortimer, 1887
Bird vs Zukertort, 1886
Bird vs E Schallopp, 1885
Tartakower vs Capablanca, 1924
Tartakower vs Bogoljubov, 1924
Tartakower vs Yates, 1924
Tartakower vs Alekhine, 1924
|Apr-03-12|| ||harrylime: <HeMateMe: Harry, have you seen the film "Bobby Fischer Against the World"? You would like it, I think. i just saw it, rental. Very well done.>|
I will check it out. I could get that and 'Lennon vs the USA' from amazon on a double bill lol
thanks for the info tho.
|Apr-03-12|| ||harrylime: Spassky never lost playing against the kings gambit I believe..|
Spassky v Fischer kings gambit 1960 ..some game ! lol
Two of the most gifted players of the 20th century going for 'va banque' .. Swashbuckling chess..
|Apr-04-12|| ||Joshka: http://chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp...
Anyone know what type of board and pieces they used for game 3 and then games 7 thru 21? How large were the squares? 2 inches? 2 1/4? They show the table but not the board and pieces!! Any help appreciated!
|Apr-04-12|| ||keypusher: <Sneaky: <I'll be disgusted if this is their idea of a "He he he gotcha!" moment.> that reminds me of mathematician and puzzle aficionado Martin Gardner who once published in his newspaper column that "Computer scientists have proven that the game of chess is a draw, with perfect play." It was April 1st.
In this case though, I think it's legit. A few years back Chessbase got a lot of criticism for publishing an April fool's gag that was a few days late. (They saved it up for some PlayChess broadcast or something.) I really doubt they'll make that mistake again.>|
|Apr-04-12|| ||acirce: It's odd so many people thought it might be true, given how implausible the story is, even disregarding the giveaways. This won't be reality in our lifetimes.|
|Apr-05-12|| ||Riverbeast: <Harry, have you seen the film "Bobby Fischer Against the World"? You would like it, I think. i just saw it, rental. Very well done>|
I learned a lot I didn't know
Fischer was staring at the camera, and complaining about it to Schmid the arbiter, right after he made his first move 1...Nf6
There was a ton of footage I had never seen before...The film makers did a great job of research
I thought it was also very well made, and dealt with Fischer sensitively and objectively
It doesn't gloss over the rough parts of Fischer's life and psyche - but tries to understand it from a more human angle
It's rare to see such a balanced treatment of Fischer from the non-chess media
|Apr-05-12|| ||moronovich: The Fischermovie is hereby recommended.|
|Apr-05-12|| ||HeMateMe: Has checkers been "solved" yet? I know Chinook, a world class checkers program, was beating the world's best checkers players over ten years ago.|
I thought maybe, with a simplistic game like checkers, the final outcome might be determinable with various openings--is checkers a forced draw? I think it is.
|Apr-05-12|| ||alexmagnus: <Has checkers been "solved" yet?>|
Checkers is solved in the sense that there is a program which cannot be beaten, even theoretically (for both sides). But it doesn't play perfectly, i.e. it is sure to at least draw but it won't necessarily win in a won position.
|Apr-05-12|| ||spinal pat: I believed it too, lol.
On the bright side we can still explore this opening without any mixed feelings about it, still a legitimate opening.
Must be something when computational power really becomes great enough and begins to crunch those numbers and openings begin to fall.
|Apr-05-12|| ||harrylime: I though 'checkers' was licked long ago by silicon..? |
It will never happen in chess .. (lol)
Robert Fischer with silicon help, like todays GM's, would be pretty scary.. As if he wasn't scary enough lol
|Apr-05-12|| ||spinal pat: I'm pretty curious about Bobby Fischer against the world, must see it.|
I've seen a Fischer movie, Bobby Fischer live, the worst movie I've ever seen. How could they make such a turbulent character into such a bland (and bad) movie in 2010 I still can't fathom it.
|Apr-05-12|| ||harrylime: I usually avoid anything on Fischer like that because the film makers cannot understand chess or him.. But I will have to check it out.|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 1687 OF 1974 ·