< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 21 OF 84 ·
|Aug-23-05|| ||WTHarvey: Here ares some puzzles from Boris's early games: http://www.wtharvey.com/spas.html|
|Aug-23-05|| ||Jaymthetactician: <Snoopdog>: Fischer would be 2900 due to inflation and Spassky's 2800 about. Inflation has caused that not Spassky performing badly :-).|
Is this true? I dont think theres a rating inflation, it's just that today's players are much stronger then the past. Evidenced by how the further back in time you go, the lower the world champion is rated. For example: If Botvinnik was 2500 later on, then Alekhine would only be rated around 2000 nowaday's, with Steinitz being about 1800, and Morphy being around 1500, Anderssen I think would 1300, while Philidor might be 1250.
|Aug-23-05|| ||martis27: <Jaymthetactician: If Botvinnik was 2500 later on, then Alekhine would only be rated around 2000 nowaday's, with Steinitz being about 1800, and Morphy being around 1500, Anderssen I think would 1300, while Philidor might be 1250.>
The most nonsenseful post i have read in cg.com.|
|Aug-23-05|| ||iron maiden: Even a century's worth of chess theory can be overvalued by some.|
|Aug-24-05|| ||Jaymthetactician: It's not non-sense if you've noticed the pattern! If you put in a typical 1250 game and a Philidor game into a computer you may find that blunders may be equally ripe in both of them. And Notice how todays champion defeated the last one, and the one before defeated the one before, and so on and so forth. Why would Tal, Spassky, and Petrosian have ratings low enough to be that of a 3rd level GM if they didnt have those skill levels compared to nowaday's in the first place? Knowledge recapitulates, some refutations modern masters known nowadays werent known to Anderrsen or Morphy, and judging from some Benko lines Spassky played to him either.|
|Aug-24-05|| ||Koster: <Jaymthetactician> If Morphy is only 1500 that means you would beat him every game, right? Somehow how I doubt that would happen. Actually if lasted 30 moves I would give you credit for being much better than the impression you make in your posts.|
|Aug-24-05|| ||martis27: Jaymthetactician: I am approximately 2000-2100 player but I can not imagine myself being equal to Alekhine. You undervalue them(players of the Past) too much. Even amateur kids after 1 year simple training can reach rating 1600.|
|Aug-24-05|| ||Koster: <You undervalue them(players of the Past) too much. Even amateur kids after 1 year simple training can reach rating 1600.>|
Exactly! And no doubt all those 1600 rated kids could duplicate Morphy's feat of 8 blindfold simultaneous games as well :)
|Aug-24-05|| ||stijn: I don't think Kasparov would bother writing books on 1500 players.|
|Aug-25-05|| ||TheSlid: Hooray for <Jaym>! Best laugh since the A level results came out.|
|Aug-25-05|| ||Jaymthetactician: Well he mentioned Greco in Volume 1 of my predicessors and gave a superior analysis in Grecos 1.e4,e5 2.f4,f5 game. Now in an engine match with shredder it gives 3.fxe4,Qf6 which allready is an improvement over what Greco played.|
|Aug-26-05|| ||Swapmeet: <Koster: <Jaymthetactician> If Morphy is only 1500 that means you would beat him every game, right?>|
I hope thats not what he's saying, considering his USCF rating is 932(P7)
|Aug-26-05|| ||SBC: <then Alekhine would only be rated around 2000 nowaday's, with Steinitz being about 1800, and Morphy being around 1500, Anderssen I think would 1300, while Philidor might be 1250>|
|Aug-27-05|| ||Jaymthetactician: 932 is quite low, even for me. In U1200 I should dispose of a #1 or #2 seed in round 1 without any real trouble. Especially since most are only used to playing open games or open with the 1.e4,c5 2.Nf3,e6 3.Nc3?!,Nc6 4.Bb5,Ne7
5.0-0,a6 garbage against the sicilian and have a pattern of planless development.|
|Aug-27-05|| ||tpstar: <Jaym> Young man, you are one of those people who just will not get the message until you are smacked in the face with it.|
All of those legends of the game were strong masters - masters, masters, masters. To even suggest they were 2000 or below is a grave insult to them as well as their fans. You will notice that nobody tries to assign ratings to players from 100 years ago or more, since 1) they aren't playing anymore 2) they didn't have ratings back then 3) it's very difficult to fairly assess their competition. But they were all the best in the world at their time, period.
This constant fixation on rating and strength is not making your own game any better - just the opposite. Moreover, this constant bashing of great players from the past does not help you look any better either - just the opposite.
|Aug-27-05|| ||chancho: Morphy 1500, Steinitz 1800.The World champion was rated 1800.If we could somehow build a time machine,then went to the past and played Steinitz,why, we all have a shot at becoming World Champion! Hey boys! the dream is still alive! Keep hope alive!|
|Aug-27-05|| ||OneBadDog: Unless, we're Jeff Sonas, Arpad Elo, or some other statistician, how can any of us really assign players in history a rating?|
|Aug-27-05|| ||Assassinater: Wow. Morphy was 1500? I guess that maybe Capablanca would be just a regular IM for us? There's no way that the old players would be that bad if they were put in our world with some exposure to chess at a reasonable age with the ability to assimilate all of the accumalated knowledge. I mean, you know all of that opening knowledge that your computers and you possess? Someone had to do the dirty work of finding out what worked and didn't. And before that, they had to work with what they had.|
|Aug-27-05|| ||MoonlitKnight: Even without the opening knowledge of today I still think Morphy would come straight out of the time machine and smash strong players. Given a few months, he would probably become a GM.|
I mean, does anyone really understand chess at all? Kramnik has stated that the more he understands of chess the more he realizes there is to learn. Chess is not some accurate science that you need a lot of knowledge to master. It's an abstract way of thinking that requires a lot of creativity, so why would the undisputed champion of 150 years ago play so much worse than today's players. Answer is he didn't.
|Aug-27-05|| ||chancho: When I wrote my earlier post, I myself was not assigning any ratings.I was just teasing the idea that somebody here proposed that Steinitz was 1800, and for crying out loud! That Morphy was 1500,and for more laughers that Anderssen was 1200. How crazy is that?|
|Aug-28-05|| ||azaris: If Philidor was put in a time machine and sent to our time, he would be a strong IM.|
If <jaymthetactician> was put in a time machine and sent to Philidor's time, it would be a blessing to us all.
|Aug-28-05|| ||Jim Bartle: Here's an idea: It seems that if top players today are better than those of the past, it's because of greater opening knowledge. I don't see people claiming today's players are better in the middlegame or endgame. So I'd guess if you gave Lasker or Morphy or Steinetz the chance to play a balanced position starting at move 25, they'd hold their own against Kasparov, Fischer or anybody. Doesn't sound like 1800 player to me.|
Look, the 1991 Candidates quarterfinal in Brussels featured, Karpov, Anand, Short, Gelfand, Yusupov, Ivanchuk, Korchnoi and Timman. Except for Karpov and maybe Ivanchuk (who lost, in any case) at around 2700, the others were rated between 2600 and 2650. Who thinks that this group was weaker than today's top ten?
|Aug-28-05|| ||tud: This is irrealistic. Look at Lasker`s evolution in time. He plays great chess in 1930s like in 1890s. And we changed 40 years of chess. The strength has not so much to do with the evolution of the chess theory. Capablanca an IM ? Botvinnik, Reshevski, Fine , the new kids in town don`t have a plus with him. And Alekhine in his 50s beats Keres regularly without any problems (Keres the future great player...) We should give a bigger time window.|
|Aug-28-05|| ||chancho: How about the very idea that Adolf Anderssen was a 1300 player? I was laughing so hard at this one that tears were rolling down my cheeks!|
|Aug-28-05|| ||Bogdanel: <azaris><If <jaymthetactician> was put in a time machine and sent to Philidor's time, it would be a blessing to us all.>
lol, that was indeed funny. Still laughing.|
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