< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·
|May-02-06|| ||Gioachino Greco: <Maatalkko>
I agree that Greco is debateable. His writings alone are not sufficient grounds for a world championship claim--just as Carrera, Polerio, Lopez, Damiano, etc. cannot be regarded as world champions.
What distinguishes Greco is the fact that he travelled around Europe playing the best players and defeating them. His chess skill is also well-documented (in sharp contrast to his predecessors). While it is definitely possible that the games are composed, it is equally true that Greco could certainly have played them if he composed them.
I take the fact that Greco was dominant in his home city, in his travels across Europe, and against Morano to be the closest anybody could come to the "strongest player" title in the 1600's.
Regarding Staunton: Yes, he was a promotional genius and organizer, but he holds wins over Harrwitz, Horwitz, and (most importantly) Saint-Amant, who was considered to be the French champion. He also played numerous games (most of which he won, as I recall) against Cochrane--another top chess player. He lost the 1851 tournament, but this is partly attributable to the fact that he was simultaneously trying to organize it. I think that this must have had some effect on his playing strength.
|Sep-03-06|| ||BishopBerkeley: This website maintains that there was a style of Chess pieces named for the Café de la Régence (photo shown):|
It's a rather pleasing style, I think! I wonder if this is true?
The "Selenus" style (shown on the page above) is also quite appealing, in my opinion.
(: Bishop Berkeley :)
|Sep-03-06|| ||Open Defence: yes bishop nice chess sets :)|
|Feb-12-07|| ||Egoch: I am desesperatly looking for the author of this portrait of La Bourdonnais. And by the way, in which circonstances was it drawn?|
|Mar-11-07|| ||Knight13: How tall was this guy? 160 centimeters?|
|Mar-11-07|| ||elLocoEvans: <I am desesperatly looking for the author of this portrait of La Bourdonnais> well the drawing has some Simpson's air, that maybe it was Matt Groening.|
|Sep-09-07|| ||Karpova: A picture:
The Chess Note:
|Nov-27-07|| ||DarthStapler: Who was a better player, La bourdonnais or Philidor?|
|Dec-19-07|| ||nimh: <Who was a better player, La bourdonnais or Philidor?>|
Computer analysis shows that La Bourdonnais and McDonnell were by far more accurate players than Philidor.
|Jan-17-08|| ||Knight13: <Computer analysis shows that La Bourdonnais and McDonnell were by far more accurate players than Philidor.> That's because 1. Philidor's age was less advanced in chess knowledge/theory and 2. Philidor barely has any games in the database.|
|Jan-25-08|| ||TigerG: Did this person spend his life playing with Alexander McDonnell?|
|Jan-26-08|| ||savagerules: < TigerG: Did this person spend his life playing with Alexander McDonnell? >|
Yes, I believed this was mentioned somewhere in the movie Brokeback Mountain.
|Jan-26-08|| ||Open Defence: heh I believe they were buried side by side is that right ? ... hmmmm probably they had a different idea of check mate|
|Mar-12-08|| ||kellmano: I never knew who i preferred out of McDonnell or Labourdonnais until i saw that picture.|
Every time i play through one of their games now, i will be picturing Labourdonnais at the board and be hoping he wins.
|Mar-12-08|| ||pawnofdoom: Haha he does look pretty funny. Like a really short, chubby man. But still an awesome player. Way better than me at least. I'm not sure how he would compare to players today. But he makes exciting, usually decisive chess.|
I wonder if you wrote out his name on a piece of paper, would it be taller than him?
|Mar-14-08|| ||sneaky pete: De La Bourdonnais also composed problems. This one was published in Le Palamède, 1837:
click for larger view
# in 7
|Mar-26-08|| ||Knight13: <TigerG: Did this person spend his life playing with Alexander McDonnell?> No need to use sarcasm, right? It was 1834, reason his games are mostly against McDonnell is because they were the best at that time and people cared enough to record the games. There weren't many masters in 1834. Of course, La Bourdonnais played many games against other weak players.|
|Sep-07-08|| ||GrahamClayton: The De La Bourdonnais v McDonnell match was the first match where all of the games were recorded and made available to the general public.|
Source: David Hooper and Kenneth Whyld, "Oxford Companion to Chess", 2nd edition, OUP, 1992
|Sep-07-08|| ||sneaky pete: Only 85 of the 88 games known to be played "were recorded and made available to the general public."|
|Oct-09-08|| ||Karpova: Jeremy Silman's article about La Bourdonnais: http://www.jeremysilman.com/chess_h...|
<What makes this all the more impressive is the fact that de la Bourdonnais, once wealthy (he and his English wife lived in a chateau at St Malo with, reportedly, five servants and two carriages), had lost his fortune (how this happened has never been made clear) and was now earning a living from chess and chess alone. A man that loved to talk and laugh, he had a tendency to swear horrible oaths (in French) of horror and frustration when he was losing. One reason for this might have been the fact that, while de la Bourdonnais tended to move quickly, McDonnell often took 1 to 2 hours for a SINGLE move! That’s right, the chess clock hadn’t been invented at that time and a player could sit there all day and think about what he intended to do! On the other hand, McDonnell’s long thinks allowed de la Bourdonnais the time to go to another room and play games for money with anyone who wished to place the bet. JUST IMAGINE: you’re playing a serious game against a man who claims he’s the world’s best (McDonnell), you make your moves quickly while he thinks forever, and you play dozens of quick games for cash at the same time as you are playing an unofficial World Championship match game! Then, to top it all off, you crush him (and everyone else you play) like a bug. Now THAT is domination!>
|Oct-09-08|| ||drukenknight: DIdnt at one pt. in one of the matches, after no one had moved for an hour or two, one of the players looked up and said: "Oh is it my move?" Or is that apocryphal?|
|Nov-05-09|| ||vonKrolock: In 1840, in the rooms of the Cercle des Echecs , Rue Menars, Paris, Louis Charles Mahe De La Bourdonnais (or 'Labourdonnais') interviewed an old chess-player, Barneville, or <"le Chevalier de Barneville">. From his memories, he received and from Philidor, but, in the other hand, with Jean Jacques Rousseau he played giving odds! |
Méry: quote<"-Il était donc bien faible.
-Mais en revanche, dit le Chevalier, il avait un amour propre colossal, et le plus affreux caractère de joueur d'échecs qui ait existé. Comme il avait la manière de se croire grand mathématicien et de faire de la musique avec des chiffres, il voulait appliquer les calculs algébriques à l'échiquier. Nous plaisantions fort là dessus et alors il brouillait les pièces du jeu avec une certaine rage peu philosophique, et on ne le voyait plus au café pendant quinze jours."> ... The French Revolution :
<" Et 1789 ne vous a pas dérangé de votre habitude ?
-89 ! J'ai laissé passer 89 comme une année ordinaire. Le 14 juillet à midi moins le quart, je remontais sur le quai des Célestins des hommes qui allaient prendre la bastille, moi je me rendais au café de la Régence pour faire ma partie avec M Louvet de Couvray. <...>
Et en 93, vous avez donné relâche sur l'échiquier ?
... <"Ainsi, demanda Labourdonnais, vous avez laissé passer la révolution sans la voir ?
-Je n'ai pas eu le temps de la voir. Le matin, j'avais ma toilette à faire, à midi, j'avais mes échecs, je rentrais à six heures chez moi, je lisais Lolli degli Scacchi, un auteur très fort ! J'étudiais des gambits, je méditais les combinaisons Calabrese. Tout cela prend beaucoup de temps. Un jour on m'apprit que nous avions un empereur, c'était en 1804 ou 5; je donnais un échecs au Roi à un capitaine de Berchiny. Un empereur ! pas possible ! s'écria le hussard, et il fut échecs et mat sur le coup."> (thanks to B. Lucas for transcribing Méry's article online)
-En 1793 Je jouais régulièrement aux échecs au café de la Terrasse des Feuillants, et presque tous les jours, j'avais pour galerie M de Robespierre, M Danton, M Barrière qui venaient assister à mes "échecs au Tyran" avant de se rendre à la convention. J'ai même fait quelques parties avec M de Robespierre qui jouait fort mal.">
|Dec-12-09|| ||Marmot PFL: Every book i have spells this player's name Labourdonnais. Maybe this is wrong but I found it very hard to search out his games on the site.|
|Dec-25-09|| ||Chessical: Here is a rough translation of the Barneville interview conducted by Labourdonnais. Improvements are welcome!|
"Jean Jacques Rousseau was so very weak. "But on the other hand", said Barneville, "he had an enormous pride, and most frightful character for a chess player that ever existed. Thus, he had the manner of a great mathematician making music with numbers, he wished to apply calculus to the board".
"We joked to extremes, and it scrambled a certain and not very philosophical fury into our play , and one did not see him any more in the cafe fopr two weeks".
The French Revolution:"And in 1789 was not your usual mode of life disturbed?
-89! "I passed 89 as an ordinary year. On July 14 at 11.45am, I was on the Celestine quay with the men who would storm the Bastille, I myself went to Cafe de la Regence to play my game with M Louvet de Couvray". <...>
"And in '93, were you tied to the chessboard?"
-" In 1793 I played chess regularly at the Cafe de la Terrasse Feuillant, and almost every day, I had as an audience M Robespierre, M Danton, M Barrière who came to attend my "failures in tyranny" (a pun? on chess/failure being the same word) before going to the Convention. I even played a few games with M Robespierre who played badly. "> ... <"So" asked Labourdonnais "you've let the Revolution pass you by without even seeing it"? "I have not had time to see it. In the morning I prepare to go out, at noon, I play chess, I come home six hours later, and I read Lolli's " Degli Scacchi", he is a very profound author! I studied gambits, I analysed Calabrese's combinations. All of this takes time. One day I was told we now had an Emperor, it was in 1804 or 5. I was checkmating a captain of the Berchiny regiment. "An Emperor! Impossible!" said the Hussar, and it was checkmate on the move".
|Dec-25-09|| ||vonKrolock: For me the 'échec au Tyran' sounds just like <"check to the tyrant"> (the opposing King, with obvious allusions to Kings in general). More excerpts from the same interview can be seen online in http://www.mjae.com/barneville.html (the parts writen by M. Lucas himself can not be reproduced without his authorization) |
Merci beaucoup de la traduction, <Chessical>, .. et encore, étant donée l'ocasion: un joyeux jour de Noël e bonne nouvelle année deux-mille-dix pour Vous et tous les amis de chessgames.com
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