< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3155 OF 6102 ·
|May-14-12|| ||WannaBe: We can't control our spending, so we want you to pay more.|
|May-14-12|| ||kb2ct: |
<WannaBe: We can't control our spending, so we want you to pay more.>
It takes about four years for a national recession to hit the states.
The 1987 crash didn't really hit until 1991.
Jerry Brown is mostly trying to protect K-12 education. it isn't like Brown's budget is a spending spree. Cuts are everywhere except K-12 education.
|May-14-12|| ||cormier: nite ...|
|May-14-12|| ||patzer2: <Jim Bartle><I'm not advocating socialism. There's a large spectrum between socialism and the laissez faire capitalism Friedman seems to advocate. I favor something between the two.> You misunderstand Friedman. He's simply advocating moving toward less government, and more freedom and free enterprise. Even the father of Economics, Adam Smith, didn't advocate capitalism without any government constraints -- just a lot less constraints.|
My thoughts are simply that the US government and state and local governments combined are spending too much and have made promises for future spending US tax payers can't afford.
Stanford Economist Michael Boskin at http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100... indicates to keep government's promises (e.g. to seniors for social security, medicare etc.), middle income tax payers, making say 60,000 as a California teacher, would have to start paying over 70% of their income in taxes.
That's a burden the economy can't withstand, and younger tax payers won't put up with.
Spending cuts need to be made, and this administration hasn't even been able to put together a budget and get it through congress. Other than just piling up deficits and debt, that will crush the economy once interest rates begin to rise, the Obama administration hasn't put together any realistic plan to reign in future spending. We need some hope and change, but not the kind President Obama is offering.
|May-14-12|| ||patzer2: <kb2ct><It takes about four years for a national recession to hit the states. The 1987 crash didn't really hit until 1991.> OK! I'll bite. I don't believe it, and think it's absolute nonsense. But if you have a source saying it takes "four years for a national recession to hit the states," please provide it.|
P.S.: Since the longest US recession since WWII was 18 months, taking four years to "hit the states" is quite a feat.
|May-14-12|| ||patzer2: <WannaBe: We can't control our spending, so we want you to pay more.> Well said! Instead, the taxpayers need to tell Washington in Nov 2012 we can't afford your spending! You're fired President Obama!|
|May-14-12|| ||kb2ct: |
Business will have less restraints when it earns them.
Charters should be rewritten to encourage social responsibility.
The AIDS cocktail that costs the U.S. government $200. per year per patient to ship to Africa costs $20,000 a year for U.S. patients.
|May-14-12|| ||karnak64: <JB> <There's a large spectrum between socialism and the laissez faire capitalism Friedman seems to advocate.>|
I'm wondering -- have you ever read, at least, Friedman's "Free to Choose"? He sets out there some clear roles for government action in and regulation of markets, although less than perhaps you'd care for (maybe a spot less than I would). But I wouldn't call him purely lassiz faire.
His general rule seems to be (and others are free to correct me from the text, which I have not at hand because, hey, I'm watching the Rangers-Devils game) that we should give preference and presumption to markets, but should consider government interventions and regulations on an objective cost-benefit basis.
I think the best critique of this position actually comes from some of the nuns I work with, who would point out that Friedman's ideas of cost and benefit are purely fiduciary, and that there are values that are more pressing, spiritual values and such, and I think there is something to that critique.
If I get time I'll chat about the radical nun from El Salvador who spoke at graduation on such matters a few days ago, but, um, the game is on.
Back to hockey ... proof I am a lost soul.
|May-14-12|| ||WannaBe: You are watching hockey?? I am watching blood/boxing on ice. :-))|
|May-14-12|| ||karnak64: <Wannabe>: I confess -- that's why I'm watching.|
|May-14-12|| ||kb2ct: |
When I said there is a time delay of about four years for recessions to hit the states, I was speaking from personal experience. I know as fact that NYS did not lay off any government employees after the 1987 crash until 1991.
I suppose I could find a link that confirms my experience, but why bother.
California had a particularly bad housing bubble and unemployment there is higher that the national average. Still it has been nearly four years.
It does not really matter who spends money. The velocity of money is much more important than the source.
|May-14-12|| ||Shams: Find myself rooting for New Jersey. I guess I've finally forgiven them for sucking all the air out of hockey in the 90s with that offsides trap.|
|May-14-12|| ||karnak64: <shams>: Well, I live in (sort of) northern New Jersey and the ambivalence here is so thick you need a chain saw to cut it. Strange thing about this part of the U.S. sports world -- Ranger and Devils fans are just about on par, and thus with so many other regional professional sports (Nets/Kicks, Jets/Giants and all that). |
I sort of have this thing for the ancient NHL (I grew up watching them play without helmets, and I watched them play Gordie Howe, for crying out loud -- oh, and with today's sticks and gear I wouldn't suggest that no helmets thing), so I have a modest favor for the Rangers. Modest.
Well, anyways, with the Blueshirts' third goal, it's all moot for tonight. Do I drink in celebration or commiseration? At least, I drink. And drink.
|May-14-12|| ||PinnedPiece: What the "dead man walking" magazine world won't do these days for a publicity hit.|
Living in Africa I occasionally took some heat from educated Africans who would tell me that until western exploration and British colonialization, they didn't have what is now called slangly "white man's disease".
African-Americans are a group least impressed with Obama's recent "outing".
He is getting the beaucoup bucks from big donors however, so I'm sure he isn't worried bout being tagged like this:
"All his tribes" - new daytime serial starting in the fall.
|May-14-12|| ||al wazir: <OhioChessFan: I vote the Department of Education be closed, Social Security be phased out, and the US get out of the United Nations. Where's my ballot?>|
This looks like a fun game everyone can play. Do I only get three wishes? Let's see. I vote that marijuana be legalized, all upside-down mortgages be forgiven, and Goldman Sachs be nationalized.
|May-15-12|| ||patzer2: <kb2ct> <When I said there is a time delay of about four years for recessions to hit the states, I was speaking from personal experience. I know as fact that NYS did not lay off any government employees after the 1987 crash until 1991.> There was no recession in 1987. The stock market declined but it wasn't accompanied by or immediately followed by a recession. |
The layoffs in NYC may have been due to the July 1990 - March 1991 recession, which was not caused by the 1987 stock price decline. Prior to that, the previous US recession was July 1981 - Nov 1982.
|May-15-12|| ||patzer2: <kb2ct><Business will have less restraints when it earns them.> Well freedom does have to be earned and our men and women in uniform have paid dearly for it. Some of them are now small business owners looking for a little freedom from onerous government regulation and excessive taxation.|
Providing this freedom with the election of a Republican President and congress will free up US businesses, large and small, to invest, grow and put the US on a firm path toward strong economic growth and full employment.
|May-15-12|| ||King Death: <patzer2> That's one hell of a guest list, I wish that I could hire a few to play at my place!|
|May-15-12|| ||King Death: < Jim Bartle: Well, the high school incident isn't a lie. Romney admitted it happened. But it was high school, it doesn't matter.>|
For ordinary folks it might too, see what came back to bite this woman in the ^#! 40 years after the fact.
|May-15-12|| ||MORPHYEUS: <Well, the high school incident isn't a lie. Romney admitted it happened. But it was high school, it doesn't matter.>|
Libs attacking the conservative candidate. This is normal.
Conservatives attack Obama likewise. All politics.
|May-15-12|| ||cormier: http://www.usccb.org/bible/readings...|
|May-15-12|| ||Tomlinsky: <MORPHYEUS: Libs attacking the conservative candidate. This is normal. Conservatives attack Obama likewise. All politics.>|
All distraction from solutions based on reality other than personal agenda.
- Available For Children's Parties, Bar Mitzvah, Public Executions, Vicar's Lunches, Cheerleader Reunions & Balloon Dancing -
|May-15-12|| ||kb2ct: |
I lost a lot of money in the crash of 1987. Over 3 million dollars and I did not recover until Clinton was elected. I am convinced that it caused the recession of 1991 largely because states are not allowed to carry a debt load like the federal government is. Thus the time lag.
The Obama concept of revenue sharing would eliminate this problem and help California immensely. Unfortunately Republicans and blue dog Democrats killed the concept.
Do you know what happened to JPM last week?? In essence they doubled down on a derivitive and called it a hedge when it really wasn't. This should be illegal. Buying derivitives through a clearing house and the Volker Rule would have prevented this.
Republicans are either financially illititerate or they actually want to bring the economy down for political reasons
|May-15-12|| ||MORPHYEUS: <I lost a lot of money in the crash of 1987. Over 3 million dollars and I did not recover until Clinton was elected.>|
In the name of social liberalism, care to make a 50$ donation to AJ?
|May-15-12|| ||Jim Bartle: Elementary question, kb2ct: JP Morgan lost 2 billion or more. Is that money just gone, or did somebody else get that money?|
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