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| May-24-12 | | GilesFarnaby: Still I do not know how OCF can profusely write in here after all the grievous things that have been told about him all these days; maybe he has the 'whistleblowers' on ignore. |
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| May-24-12 | | diceman: <OhioChessFan:It takes an expert in argumentation to copy/paste a link.> softpaw was my favorite. |
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| May-24-12 | | diceman: <galdur: Can Kangaroos even swim?> Only the religious ones, atheist kangaroos drowned. |
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May-24-12
 | | Tomlinsky: There's no evidence that the ark didn't have wings and a couple of ectoplasm jet engines is there!? After all, having empowered bearded gents with the ability to part seas, feed thousands with a couple of fish fingers and creating at least one universe arming Noah with tools for a half-decent animal rescue taxi service relatively, so to speak, seems an absolute piece of piss. - Available For Children's Parties, Bar Mitzvah, Public Executions, Vicar's Lunches, Cheerleader Reunions & Balloon Dancing - |
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| May-24-12 | | diceman: <galdur:How about non-flying birds such as the Dodo?> The Dodo had a mean breast stroke. |
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| May-24-12 | | galdur: There can be only one logical conclusion. 2400 years ago all the worldīs creatures were few and concentrated in a relatively small area in the Middle East. So, all they had to do was walk a few miles to join Noah. Polar Bears and most other higher mammals first were created in the last 1500 years as a matter of fact. |
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| May-24-12 | | Zorts: Now now, Tomlinsky. The bible may have had many authors, and may sometimes contradict, but the
holy scriptures should be respected. It's tradition. Simple as that. |
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May-24-12
 | | OhioChessFan: <aw: Can someone who has thought more about this topic explain it all to me? How could the Sumerians leave clay tablets with records of events as early as 2900 BC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sumer) and the Egyptians build their pyramids before 2600 BC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egypti...) if Noah's descendents began repopulated the world ca. 2400 BC? > I don't know. You're impressed with the scholarship on Wiki enough to take that claim at face value? <How did the bison get to North America, the giant tortoise to the Galapagos, the koalas and kangaroos and echidnas to Australia, starting from Mt. Ararat?> I don't know. Maybe land bridges. Maybe on boats. On a related note, how did life come from nonlife? |
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| May-24-12 | | Zorts: Maybe the flood didn't cover the whole world, just that small area in the Middle East. In this day and age of modern science, we don't always have to take every word of the bible literally. Jesus used parables and stories to teach. Have a little faith and be thankful that the stories have been handed down. Don't riducule them. |
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| May-24-12 | | diceman: <How did the bison get to North America, the giant tortoise to the Galapagos, the koalas and kangaroos and echidnas to Australia, starting from Mt. Ararat?> Obama High-Speed rail? |
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| May-24-12 | | galdur: Zorts, itīs more that those stories were produced by people who resided in the Middle East and had no clue about the rest of the world. To them the world looked flat and with relatively few creatures. Probably there was a major flood of some sorts, one explanation has been a gigantic lake on a retreating glacier suddenly running free. |
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| May-24-12 | | diceman: <galdur: Probably there was a major flood of some sorts, one explanation has been a gigantic lake on a retreating glacier suddenly running free.> Did the glacier retreat faster than gravity? |
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May-24-12
 | | Tomlinsky: <Zorts: It's tradition. Simple as that.> Yes, simple was exactly the expression I was struggling to convey. Be seeing you. - Available For Children's Parties, Bar Mitzvah, Public Executions, Vicar's Lunches, Cheerleader Reunions & Balloon Dancing - |
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| May-24-12 | | Jim Bartle: I'm not claiming this can happen on such a huge scale, but a glacial lake breaking through the moraine which held it back can create a tremendous flood. I've seen the results from lakes from lakes up to two kilometers long, and the results are devastating. |
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| May-24-12 | | galdur: I have always thought that those who believe in those heavenly tales are that more susceptible to fairy tales from rulers down here on earth. After all, not that long ago kings supposedly had their mandate from that invisible magic guy in the sky and itīs a matter of historical record that Little Bush claimed that god had told him to attack Iraq. Of course he first mentioned this publicly months after the invasion, I guess it wouldnīt have been a great advertising point while Powell and others were defrauding the WMD scare and Hitler-Stalin-alCIAduh threat through the U.N. and corporate media. |
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| May-24-12 | | diceman: <galdur: Probably there was a major flood of some sorts, one explanation has been a gigantic lake on a retreating glacier suddenly running free.> So after 9/11, JFK, RFK, moon landings, this is the explanation galdur chooses to believe. :):):) |
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May-24-12
 | | FSR: <OCF> OK, here's a few questions about Noah's Ark that I'd be interested in knowing the answers to: (1) God supposedly decided to wipe out the vast majority of humankind and land animals because Man had displeased him, correct? What exactly had people done that was so terrible as to warrant such a draconian punishment? Was it worse than the sorts of things people do today? How is it that God, having created Man and being omniscient, hadn't foreseen how Man would behave? Wasn't God's reaction petulant and extreme, to say the least? And why slaughter the animals too - what had they done? (2) Really basic point: how many of each animal did Noah take on the Ark? Genesis 6:19-20 says two of each kind of animal (one male, one female), while Genesis 7:2-3 (very shortly thereafter) seems to say seven of each "clean beast" and fowl, and two of each "unclean beast." (3) There are millions of species of animals on Earth, right? And you would contend that all of those species must have been on the Ark or they wouldn't be here today, since species don't evolve, correct? The scientists quoted in this article say between 7.4 million and 10 million species: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/30/s... Of those, only 1.3 million have actually been named and catalogued so far. Id. Now some of those are fish and other aquatic creatures, which presumably wouldn't have been on the Ark. But could an ark (of 300 x 50 x 30 cubits, Genesis 6:15) really hold (at least) two of each of the remaining millions of species? (4) How did Noah get two of each of those species? As the above-cited article indicates, a majority of species haven't even been named and catalogued yet. Indeed, the concept of "species" didn't exist. How could Noah have gotten all those animals from species a majority of which that scientists even today haven't named and catalogued? And how did he get animals from far-flung areas of the globe that he didn't even know existed? (5) Did Noah get microbes too? Microbes that only live on land, not the sea, would presumably have died if they weren't on the ark. But microbes weren't even discovered until 1675, by Antoni van Leeuwenhoek, many centuries after Noah. http://www.leben.us/index.php/compo... Did Noah know of microbes, if so how, and how did he secure at least a pair of each species of them? (6) Did any of the members of the species on Noah's Ark die before reproducing, or prove incapable of reproduction? (7) All of the animals resulting from these matings of just two (or maybe seven in some cases) animals would be very inbred, right? Did problems resulting from that cause any of the species to die out? Did any species did out because there were so few of them, and they did not succeed in reproducing enough animals to sustain the species before it went extinct? (This would seem to be a <very> great danger with just two or seven of each species.) (8) How did Noah stop the animals from eating each other? (9) What did Noah feed all these millions of animals over those 40 days and 40 nights? How was he able to store all that food on the ark? How did he know what kind of food each animal ate? For example, koalas only eat eucalyptus leaves - did Noah know that, and where did he obtain all those eucalyptus leaves? Did Noah have refrigeration to store all this food? Surely otherwise it would rot over those 40 days and 40 nights, right? Or were the bacteria enjoined from eating it? How did he keep animals from eating each other's food, and from fighting one another over food? |
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May-24-12
 | | FSR: To <OCF>
PART TWO:
(10) How did Noah keep enough water on the Ark for these millions of animals? It's not as though the animals could drink sea water. (11) How did Noah deal with the <massive> quantities of feces and urine that these millions of animals must have generated? Many of us have known people who own eight or ten cats and whose houses smell like a gigantic cat urinal. Similarly with pig farms and so forth. Noah's Ark would have had sanitation problems many orders of magnitude worse, which Noah and his family members could not possibly have dealt with. (12) What about after the animals got off the ark? The flood must have destroyed almost all of the food these animals ate. There would have been no land animals left for the carnivores to eat, and surely very few plants (if any) could manage to survive being submerged underwater for 40 days. Why didn't the animals starve to death after they left the ark? The natural thing to do would be for them to eat each other, but that would wreck the whole plan, wouldn't it? (13) As <al wazir> said, how did the non-flying animals get dispersed to all parts of the globe? These are just a few questions I've come up with off the top of my head (OK, with a minor assist from <al wazir>). Surely you can appreciate that the logistical problems associated with Noah's Ark must have been beyond massive. I can't imagine how even a huge team of scientists could create a Noah's Ark even today with our vastly greater scientific knowledge and technology. There is no way that Noah could have done so. |
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| May-24-12 | | diceman: <Jim Bartle: I'm not claiming this can happen> Jim rarely says or claims things. |
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| May-24-12 | | diceman: <FSR:
(11) How did Noah deal with the <massive> quantities of feces and urine that these millions of animals must have generated?>They just called it:
Occupy Noahs Ark. |
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| May-24-12 | | Jim Bartle: No, diceman, I said "I'm not claiming this can happen on such a huge scale..." Nice dishonest editing job. I have seen the effects of breakouts of glacial lakes. They are horrendous. They happen. If it happened on a very large lake (which is created by a glacial moraine) the flood would be huge. |
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| May-24-12 | | diceman: <Jim Bartle: No, diceman, I said "I'm not claiming this can happen on such a huge scale..." Nice dishonest editing job.> You mean what a lightweight who calls interpretations lies
would call dishonest editing.
(unless you didnt say or claim anything)
Anyone notice the one who never claims or says anything, is the only one subjected to
<dishonest editing> how ironic? |
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| May-24-12 | | galdur: Seems like a control mechanism to me. You had those kings/priests back there whose power and law came from some supernatural being which of course could become dangerously pissed if his earthly representatives werenīt obeyed in full. It was a very nice scam, plenty of choice meat for the priests from sacrificed animals. Perhaps they even controlled the important leather industry. In any event fear has always been a control mechanism. Itīs nothing new. In our times major fear inducing events are carefully televised. Itīs a case of mass trauma. While you are totally beaten down and in the most vulnerable state they pump you full of their propaganda. This sort of brain washing can be extremely difficult to shake. People can consistently believe the most ludicrous nonsense. |
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| May-24-12 | | Jim Bartle: It was dishonest editing, diceman.
My phrase was "I'm not claiming this can happen on such a huge scale..." You cut it down to "I'm not claiming this can happen..." That's dishonest, because in the post I claim very specifically that it CAN happen on a smaller scale, because I've seen the results of the breakouts of probably a dozen glacial lakes. |
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May-24-12
 | | kb2ct: The single most important concept in life is sustainability. It means more than sitting and watching your electric meter run backwards or reducing your use of gasolene from a thousand galleons a year to 12 galleons a year. The wealthier people have already figured it out. Conservatives won't like it because it means changing the way they think. The old adage "If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem" has never been more applicatable. Stop talking about miniscule problems like the existence of God Get off your butt and do something. :0) |
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Later Kibitzing> |