< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3323 OF 4588 ·
|Jun-29-12|| ||HeMateMe: < tpstar > Your Congressmen voted for ObamCare. Why don't you ask THEM why it's good legislation?|
In New York City, an estimated one million people, the poor and lower middle class, will now have health insurance. That means finding out whats wrong BEFORE you end up in the emergency room at 3:00 a.m.
I don't think anyone really knows the final impact of costs/savings, how it will play out. Perhaps both sides are partailly correct, partially in the know. The program will take some tweaking, but like Medicare for seniors, it is here to stay.
Any suceeding president who plans on repealing ObamaCare can start his brilliant campaign by telling seniors (90% of whom vote) that their medications are going to go way up in cost after the Healthcare Act is repealed.
Good luck with that.
|Jun-29-12|| ||tpstar: <HeMateMe> No - I am asking you to defend the ACA instead of your blind allegiance to President Obama, expecting him and his friend Nancy to fix all of our problems.|
Just like President Obama, you perpetuate this class warfare ideal where "greedy" and "wealthy" doctors are to blame for rising health care costs. Nothing to do with patients living longer and doing better - oh no, it's the greedy doctors' fault. And we'll just have to make do with a "little less" income, to the tune of $500 Billion.
I have not taken Medicaid for 12 years. Contrary to your belief, the state government cannot force me to accept Medicaid patients. Period. Many primary doctors in my retirement community stopped accepting Medicare ten years ago. Contrary to your belief, the federal government cannot force them or me to accept Medicare patients. Period. You said before that any doctors who accept "government funding" will be obligated to take Obamacare insurance, whatever that entails. If it even comes close to that point, I will opt out of Medicare and only see patients with commercial insurance. I can, and I will. You know, many other doctors can, and many other doctors will. If you think this big stick approach will bully doctors into bailing out Obamacare, then you understand neither Medicine nor Business.
Where are the doctors to care for these 50 million uninsured? It's a little late to ask that now. For the short term, those Obamacare patients may go to the VA, and they will hate it.
|Jun-29-12|| ||quantum.conscious: < FSR: Jon Stewart on Mitt Romney's position on Obamacare: http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/0>...|
very good video/article by jon stewart . i thoroughly enjoyed.
however, it also brought back some memories .
first, of the time when <QC> posted a very 'good' article by Deepak chopra about economic policies . the article favored democrat's policies. <pinnedpiece> slaughtered that article and <QC> <meekly> said something like, "what the f### i know <pinnedpiece> sir. i am naive compared to you on the maaters of economy. perhaps you are mostly right and deepak chopra a little right somewhere. "
or the time when <al wazir> posted links about <freud> and <QC> politely asked something like "Hey <al wazir> do you know any <f######> thing about psychology/human mind or you just dropping names?"
<al wazir> replied in a way not very unsimilar to the way <QC> had responded to <pinnedpiece>. yeah, there was a major difference - unlike <QC> , <al wazir> was not meek. he had the fortitude of a person who chooses to be authentic as he replied that he was just namedropping.
to counter the 'propaganda' of <pinnedpiece> , democrats on this page need someone way 'better' than <fsr> , i have a feeling.
|Jun-29-12|| ||I play the Fred: <Contrary to your belief, the federal government cannot force them or me to accept Medicare patients.>|
You forgot the word <yet>.
|Jun-29-12|| ||kb2ct: |
It is not the doctors alone who are greedy.
Remove the profit motive from health care and the price drops by a minimum of twentyfive percent. If Europe is any example, the drop will be by half.
Why should Americans pay twice as much for the same or lesser care??
Health care for profit is illegal in most of the world.
|Jun-29-12|| ||OhioChessFan: <HMM: Any suceeding president who plans on repealing ObamaCare can start his brilliant campaign by telling seniors (90% of whom vote) that their medications are going to go way up in cost after the Healthcare Act is repealed. |
Good luck with that.>
Just fill in the blanks of whatever issue, with whatever demographic of voters, and you could be describing the European continent. Things are just swell over there right now. I agree with <PiPi> that if people like you and <FSR> are taken in by this appeal of somehow getting free goods from the government, the uneducated masses are money in the bank for liberal politicians.
What wouldn't you fall for? If a candidate said, "If elected, I will give $5000 a year to all members of Chessgames.com", hey, great, he just bought a bunch of votes. And after that, he could do the same for chess.com, maybe power sellers on Ebay, etc, till he got 51% of voters in the fold. And Good Luck if he ever tried to STOP giving $, since Chessgames.com users vote. Surely you see how ridiculous that all is, and your position is not much better than that.
|Jun-29-12|| ||PinnedPiece: <FSR: Photos> Yes those are despicable. Nothing like that ever happened to George Bush, nor does it continue to this day.|
Its all ugly as sin. A Christian might call those sinful acts, though you of course wouldn't.
(p.s. I hope you noticed how your link advertises Photoshop lessons!)
|Jun-29-12|| ||quantum.conscious: < kb2ct:
It is not the doctors alone who are greedy. >
what about education ? these days i am a teacher and am hoping that in a few years time i would be making a lot of money just like so many other coaching institutes in india are making a lot of money helping students prepare for the IIT entrance exam in india.
i have worked very hard ,after all, over the years getting very good in Physics , maths , chemistry and i deserve some monetary rewards now.
in principle , however , i want quality education and healthcare to be available to everyone and if god helps me getting very rich , i would devote myself to that objective , promise.
|Jun-29-12|| ||quantum.conscious: continued from the above post :
oops, that sounds so much like <pinnedpiece> when he says that don't stop people from getting rich . when people create wealth they would benefit everyone and many would turn philanthropist.
what's happening ? a 'liberal' like me getting brainwashed by <pinnedpiece>? this page desperately need some smart 'democrat' to counter the propaganda of <pinnedpiece>
|Jun-29-12|| ||Gregor Samsa Mendel: <q.c>--From my admittedly biased liberal perspective, I believe that <fsr> does just fine at articulating democratic political positions, and compared to <PP>, is less insulting and belittling to those who disagree with him. I think that someone comes across better in an argument when they can state their positions without denigrating the positions of their opponents, being assertive without being aggressive.|
|Jun-29-12|| ||quantum.conscious: < Gregor Samsa Mendel: <q.c>--From my admittedly biased liberal perspective, I believe that <fsr> does just fine at articulating democratic political positions, and compared to <PP>, is less insulting and belittling to those who disagree with him. I think that someone comes across better in an argument when they can state their positions without denigrating the positions of their opponents, being assertive without being aggressive.>|
about style , i agree with you . we have been through that already recently. (<pinnedpiece> called that 'dressing' instead of style)
i was talking about content
|Jun-29-12|| ||quantum.conscious: continued from above post:
<fsr> does very well in the matters concerning history and some others may be.
however , i was talking about economy and similar matters when i said this page needs a 'better' democrat than <fsr> to counter the propaganda of <pinnedpiece>
|Jun-29-12|| ||Gregor Samsa Mendel: <q.c: i was talking about content>|
I think (from my admittedly biased perspective) that the liberals on this page are generally better at using content to articulate their positions; <PP> is better than many of his fellow rightists in this respect because he does not depend so heavily on a narrowly literal interpretation of the Bible for his world view.
|Jun-29-12|| ||PinnedPiece: <tpstar: Where are the doctors to care for these 50 million uninsured? It's a little late to ask that now. For the short term, those Obamacare patients may go to the VA, and they will hate it.
A significant percent of doctors who started practicing in the 70s will quit. That is a huge hit right there. Doctor-run hospitals will have to close under Obamacare. Catholic hospitals are never going to offer all the services the Big Central Govt will require of them, and will close instead.
Those like <HMM> who think a magic wand has been waved, and now people will get annual exams, go to their doctor for small problems, and suddenly stop using the emergency ward are made fools of by the Democrats yet again. The statistics in Massachussetts, whose health care by state takeover was "the model" for Obamacare, actually show no support for that viewpoint.
As I reported to <HMM> on this very forum two years and three months ago:
<Me: <A study by the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation found that the insured accounted for 83 percent of emergency room visits, reflecting their share of the population. <<<After Massachusetts adopted universal insurance, emergency room use remained higher than the national average,>>> reports an Urban Institute study. More than two-fifths of visits represented non-emergencies. Adult respondents to a survey said <<<it was "more convenient" to go to the emergency room>>> or they couldn't "get (a doctor's) appointment as soon as needed." If universal coverage makes appointments harder to get, <<<emergency room use may increase.>>>>>
Not one of the arguments in favor of Obamacare hold up, as far as I am concerned.
|Jun-29-12|| ||PinnedPiece: btw I was a very civil person back then. Some of the time.|
|Jun-29-12|| ||kb2ct: |
I just had my annual physical today.
It was free, no co-pay. Blood work, an EKG, etc.
|Jun-29-12|| ||al wazir: <OhioChessFan: Just fill in the blanks of whatever issue, with whatever demographic of voters, and you could be describing the European continent. Things are just swell over there right now.> Are you referring to the Greek debt crisis? Of course, that was obviously caused by providing universal healthcare to Greeks. Or maybe you're talking about the recession that's sucking in one European country after another like a black hole -- presumably another consequence of socialized medicine. Or are you referring to something else, like maybe their problems with illegal immigrants, who keep on trying to come in despite the terrible conditions in Europe?|
Just what do you mean by that crack, if anything?
|Jun-29-12|| ||HeMateMe: <TPstar> <I have not taken Medicaid for 12 years. Contrary to your belief, the state government cannot force me to accept Medicaid patients. Period.>|
And that is kind of sad, it really paints you as a sort of elitist type. I guess you have a clinic in bloomfield hills Michigan, someplace like that where poor blacks or arabs who can't afford $300 a month will just have to die. Hey, its "Social Darwinism", right?
Down the road, if more M.D.s see it your way (they won't) and refuse to see people who can only pay the Medicaid stipend (they will still be seen--your type is a minority) then there will be 1)more medical schools opened up, and these very motivated third world people, especially the indians, perhaps talanted people from eastern Europe and the old USSR republics will be allowed to emigrate, and come here and go to med school and dental school--afraid of the competition, <TP>?. I certainly see a lot of them at the university dental clinic I use; I bet medical school is headed in the same direction. There won't be a shortage of doctors, or doctors who will take the lower payments.
Your kind of thinking is a throwback to 1965 and Peyton Place, where all the doctors were rich white men, and no one ever questioned anything they did. It is estimated that 100,000 people die each year due to mistakes made in the hospitals by doctors and staff.
If worse comes to worse, students applying to med school will be told that they have to accept a certain percentage of medicaid/medicare people each year, or lose their license to practice medicine.
Hurt's doesn't it?
<Elvis> It is not "class warfare" as you and fish put it. The wealthiest earners will have to pay a bit more in taxes so that there is more affordable healthcare. No one want the USA to turn into Cuba or North Korea, so please release the Panic Button.
Can't you open up a history book and read? Fifty years ago, the highest earners in this countyr were paying over 50% of their earnings in income taxes--much higher than what they pay now. At that time, the USA had one of the highest standards of living in the world. The tax system has to match the requirements of the times. You people are too inflexible.
It's not how much money you keep after taxes--its what the money is really worth, what is its purchasing power? Purchasing power will now include health insurance, the cost of which was way out of control.
|Jun-29-12|| ||PinnedPiece: <HMM: If worse comes to worse, students applying to med school will be told that they have to accept a certain percentage of medicaid/medicare people each year, or lose their license to practice medicine.|
Hurt's doesn't it?
The solution of tyrants everywhere, at all times in human history, and now as outlined by <HMM> coming to the U.S. of A:
"We will say what you can and can't do, when you can do it, and for how long... because we are the masterminds who know all."
--Heroes of the Left
"If we let Washington tell us when to sow and when to reap, the nation will soon want for bread"
|Jun-29-12|| ||Alien Math: <..Contrary to your belief, the state government cannot force me to accept Medicaid patients. Period.>|
According to Susan Rudd Bailey, president of the Texas Medical Association (TMA), a proposal of 1 percent cuts in Medicaid reimbursements could take effect September 1.
“This may not seem like much, but Medicaid does not cover overhead. Some doctors accept Medicaid at a loss. Further cuts to Medicaid may encourage these doctors to pull out. We need to find ways to bring doctors in, not [force them] out,” Bailey said.
Bailey said currently one-third of all doctors in Texas accept Medicaid. http://news.heartland.org/newspaper...
|Jun-29-12|| ||Petrosianic: <Not one of the arguments in favor of Obamacare hold up, as far as I am concerned.>|
The biggest thing to remember is that NOBODY wanted this bill. You're thinking "Oh, the Democrats did, right?" Wrong. This was never intended to be the final bill. They'd intended to keep tweaking it for several more go rounds until they got the bill they wanted. But when the people of Massachusetts got uppity and elected Scott Brown to try to stop it, the Democrats just stop and took what they had, so that they could say that they passed something. But what they passed is not what they wanted.
|Jun-29-12|| ||PinnedPiece: I have recently started paying a little more attention to the DrudgeReport http://www.drudgereport.com/ .....however, they must have <kb2ct> writing the headlines:|
THANKS FOR MAKING YESTERDAY 2ND BIGGEST DAY IN DRUDGEREPORT'S 17 YEAR HISTORY! PAGE WAS VIEWED 45,233,974 TIMES, FROM 115 COUNTIRES...
(Sorry for the gentle jibe, <kb>)
I can say I've probably visited a number of those countires.
|Jun-30-12|| ||PinnedPiece: Evidence that Holder lied:
Democrat pressure sent Lewis Libby to prison on far less serious charges of "making false statements" (concerning Valerie Plame outing) than Holder has now been shown to have done on Fast and Furious...
But what the hell, this is the new Amoral Age when AmLibs don't deem anything wrong that their politicians can get away with. Hey our president trumpets his promotion of abortion--its a bulwark of his reelection campaign.
Times have changed since those puritans landed at Plymouth Rock...
... Anything goes.
|Jun-30-12|| ||King Death: <HMM> If I remember right <tpstar> works on the other side of Michigan not snooty Bloomfield Hills. He's also an OK guy, better than some in these parts. My only problem with Tony is that avatar, he's no fish!|
|Jun-30-12|| ||Marmot PFL: Here are some reactions of MDs to ACA- some for, many against, others see some good and bad.|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3323 OF 4588 ·