< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·
|Feb-15-05|| ||offramp: Regarding Milosevic, I read this via the official site:|
"Milosevic's trial at the UN tribunal in The Hague, which started on February 12, 2002, has been delayed repeatedly by the poor health of the 63-year-old former president, who has a heart condition and high blood pressure."
What can you do? He is presenting his own defence... so if he is not there, the trial stops.
|Feb-15-05|| ||cu8sfan: <offramp> Thanks for the info. I wouldn't care for his heart condition like he didn't care for the overall condition of his victims. I know that this is against one of the pillars of a democracy, that one shouldn't judge without a trial but then again, he (and others like Pinochet) didn't commit his crimes in a democracy... |
|Feb-15-05|| ||acirce: <I know that this is against one of the pillars of a democracy, that one shouldn't judge without a trial but then again, he (and others like Pinochet) didn't commit his crimes in a democracy...> Are we sure about that? In what way was Yugoslavia not a democracy? That would be a matter of opinion, not undisputable fact since there were regular elections in a multi-party system just like in "respectable" countries. And why would that mean that normal principles of legal security should just be done away with anyway? Sounds like the scary logic of anti-terrorism these days.|
In fact Hague is a complete farce for a number of reasons. Of course he should face a trial and thereby the consequences of his actions. In Serbia! Not by a NATO-affiliated court designed to assist in writing history in a way that can be approved by the US and their allies -- including the portrayal of Milosevic as the big devil, stressing "the". I'm not implying he was a good guy.
Thanks to intense propaganda, the public view of the Yugoslavia conflicts is often extremely onesided and sometimes just upside down compared to reality. For an insightful account running counter to the official version in the West, I'd recommend Diana Johnstone's "Fool's Crusade".
|Feb-15-05|| ||Where is my mind: <Are we sure about that? In what way was Yugoslavia not a democracy? That would be a matter of opinion, not undisputable fact since there were regular elections in a multi-party system just like in "respectable" countries. >|
In July 1997 Milosevic was elected as Yugoslav President by the federal parliament, which was controlled by his supporters.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/st..." When Milosevic refused to recognise the election victory of opposition leader Vojislav Kostunica, hundreds of thousands of people took to the streets, and a national strike was declared. "
More like Cuban elections than fully democratic countries.
|Feb-15-05|| ||euripides: <where> the links you provide provide no evidence that Serbia's elections were problematic or as you describe them 'Cuban', simply that Milosevic twice attempted to resist their results (municipal in 1996-7 and Parliamentary in 2000). Actually, they speak volumes for the quality of the elections themselves.|
The fact that in 1996-7 Parliament was controlled by Milosevic's supporters does not actually imply that they were not elected. I do not know the quality of the elections that produced that Parliament, but it's too easy to assume it can't have been democratic because those elected were not good democrats.
|Feb-15-05|| ||acirce: <by the federal parliament, which was controlled by his supporters.> And who had got there by people electing them in 1996! That sentence makes it seem like they were appointed by Milosevic himself or something. That is what I'm talking about, vulgar propaganda that too many people buy.|
But obviously I'm not saying it was an ideal democracy, as ideal democracies don't exist. I'm therefore questioning the simple dichotomy "democracies"/"non-democracies" and I'd suggest that placing Yugoslavia in the second category would be pretty arbitrary, while there are obvious cases of clear-cut dictatorships that unquestionably belong there.
|Feb-15-05|| ||square dance: <the links you provide provide no evidence that Serbia's elections were problematic or as you describe them 'Cuban', simply that Milosevic twice attempted to resist their results> once again another case of american superiority; i.e., our government has a set of checks and balances that make election stealing legal. when are you guys going to catch up? ;-) |
|Feb-15-05|| ||euripides: <sd> You might check other kibitzers' profiles about their backgrounds before making crass nationalist insults. In any case the view I expressed is a minority one in the US as well as in my country. |
|Feb-15-05|| ||square dance: <euripides> <<sd> You might check other kibitzers' profiles about their backgrounds before making crass nationalist insults. In any case the view I expressed is a minority one in the US as well as in my country.> what kind of a stupid comment is that? im american, and im making fun of a couple of u.s. elections, nothing else. |
|Feb-15-05|| ||euripides: <sd> I thought you were accusing me of American chauvinism. Perhaps I misunderstood. |
|Feb-15-05|| ||square dance: <euripides> you must understand that i went to 'great lengths' to type <;-)> at the end of my post. :-p|
so no big deal, but it should be clear that <;-)> does usually indicate some sort of an attempt at humor.
|Feb-15-05|| ||Where is my mind: <That is what I'm talking about, vulgar propaganda that too many people buy.>Yes I bought it,documentaries always give the immpresion of Milosovic manipulation. I was using the "democracies"/"non-democracies" method of judement.I found a book review of Diana Johnstone's "Fool's Crusade" I'll read it today. |
|Feb-15-05|| ||euripides: <sd> I realised there was an attempt at humour. What I didn't realise, reading rather quickly, was that the second sentence was addressed at the Yuglosavs rather than at me. Given that, the smiley wouldn't have made much difference. My misunderstanding. Peace ! |
|Feb-18-05|| ||Where is my mind: This is some interesting information I missed while indulging in vulgar propaganda,<At the Davos summit of neo-liberal chieftains in 1999, Blair berated Belgrade, not for its handling of Kosovo, but for its failure to fully embrace "economic reform". In the bombing campaign that followed, it was state owned companies, rather than military sites, that were targeted. Nato's destruction of only 14 Yugoslav army tanks compares with its bombing of 372 centres of industry, including the Zastava car factory, leaving hundreds of thousands jobless. "Not one foreign or privately owned factory was bombed," wrote Clark. > |
|Jun-13-05|| ||vonKrolock: "War Crimes" - article and resp. "Chess Note" by Edward Winter on-line here http://www.chesshistory.com/winter/...|
|Jul-16-05|| ||vonKrolock: The link to the Article above, that presents also Ozols in his human and Chess-playing facets, was, it seems, been changed to http://www.chesshistory.com/winter/...|
|Dec-29-05|| ||offramp: Looks like John Demjanjuk might now be deported to the Ukraine.|
|Aug-09-06|| ||BIDMONFA: Karlis Ozols|
|Aug-09-06|| ||franksp: Some people I regard as war criminals get reelected and are very popular. I suppose an unprovoked invasion is OK as long as it happens to someone else.|
Need I mention names?
|Nov-18-06|| ||vonKrolock: <franksp> T Bush or D Blair!?|
|Nov-18-06|| ||technical draw: Osama Bin Laden?
|Jul-10-07|| ||whiteshark: |
<Karlis Ozols – <Cecil John Seddon Purdy>>
New South Wales v Victoria match, 14 October 1950
1 Nf3 d5 2 g3 g6 3 Bg2 Bg7 4 d4 c5 5 dxc5 Na6 6 c4! d4!? 7 c6! Rb8! 8 cxb7 Bxb7 9 Qa4+ Qd7! 10 Qxd7+ Kxd7 11 O-O e5 12 Nbd2 Ne7 13 Nb3 Rhc8 14 Nfd2 Bxg2 15 Kxg2 Nf5 16 Rd1 Ke6 17 Ne4! Rxc4 18 g4! Nd6 19 Nxd6 Kxd6 20 e3 Ke7? 21 exd4 exd4 22 Bf4 Rbc8 23 Re1+ Kf8 24 Rac1 Rxc1 25 Bd6+! Kg8 26 Nxc1 Rd8 27 Ba3 Nc7 28 Nd3 Bf8 29 Bxf8 Kxf8 30 Rc1 Ne6 31 b4 Ke7 32 a4 Rd7 33 f4 Kd6 34 Kf3 f5 35 gxf5 gxf5 36 Ne5! Rc7 37 Rxc7 Nxc7 38 b5 Nd5! 39 Nc6 Kc5 40 Nxa7 d3
41 a5! Nxf4 42 Ke3 Kc4 43 b6 Nd5+ 44 Kd2 Nb4 45 b7 Na6 46 Nc6 f4 47 h4! f3 48 Ne5+ Kb5 49 Nxd3 Kxa5 50 Ke3 Kb6 51 Kxf3 Kxb7 52 Kg4 Kc7 53 Kg5 Kd6 54 Kh6 Ke6 55 Kxh7 Nc7 56 Kg6 Nd5 57 h5 Ne7+ Drawn.
|Jan-26-08|| ||Karpova: <Our shame; His haven
Australia's Nazi cover-up
By Michael Kapel & Zandy Alter>
|Jul-29-09|| ||myschkin: . . .
"Fingering the SS"
(by Mark Aarons, The Australia/Israel Review, 1997)
|May-09-11|| ||SvetlanaBabe: I saw him play at the end of his career at the Melbourne Chess Club at 483 Elizabeth St in the late 1970's. he was still more than competitiveagainst a new generation of budding IMs and GMs who felt very lucky to even draw against him!
He was a top player.
RIP Mr Ozols. Keep playing that Leningrad Dutch!
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