< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 57 OF 57 ·
|Nov-14-18|| ||beatgiant: <al wazir>
By objecting to the draw claim, White can hope that he won't be charged with "prearranged result." This stumper was a lot more complex than I first thought!
|Nov-14-18|| ||Tiggler: <beatgiant> is correct, of course, but I like <Marmot>'s answer. Forfeit both players!|
|Nov-16-18|| ||al wazir: Okay, suppose the arbiter rules that it is not a draw. The game continues:|
8.Ng1 Ng8, etc.
What does the arbiter do now?
|Nov-16-18|| ||beatgiant: <al wair>
We need to know more details. <the arbiter rules that it is not a draw> accepting the argument that the initial position does not count? Or the arbiter warns the two players to play a real game or face forfeits?
After the further moves you posted, is someone trying to claim a draw again? Or they keep repeating indefinitely until the arbiter notices the situation? In other words, what did they do after "etc."?
|Nov-16-18|| ||beatgiant: OK, I'll continue the story. It's a world championship live broadcast.|
Black makes draw claim. Arbiter refuses and warns the players to play a real game or face forfeit.
Kibitzer 1: Finally a player moves a piece past the center line. Now we'll see a real fight!
Kibitzer 2: <Kibitzer 1> This is chess, not football.
Kibitzer 3: White can't allow 10...Bxf3. His knight took 9 moves to reach f3. If it gets exchanged now, I'm not sure the bishop pair is enough compensation for losing 9 development tempi in the opening. This suggests White has to play 10. Ng1.
Kibitzer 4: <Kibitzer 3> Agreed. I've crunched the numbers, and statistics show that players who favor knight moves over bishop moves have a 1.23 percent win advantage in world championship play.
Arbiter: I warned you to play a real game and now I've got to forfeit you.
The White player appeals and cites the chessgames.com kibiting in defense of his move.
What happens next?
|Nov-16-18|| ||al wazir: One time, back in my college days, an annoying classmate named Jonnie came by when I was shooting pool. He said to me, "Let's play chess."|
"Not now," I said. "I'm playing pool."
"You can do both," he said. "We don't need a board. We can play in our heads." (This would have been a dubious venture at any time. Jonnie had a well-attested reputation for dishonesty.) I ignored him.
He didn't accept this. "Come on. I'll move first. Pawn to king four." (This all happened before computerization made algebraic notation de rigueur.)
I said, "Pawn to king two," and went on playing pool.
"Pawn to queen four."
"Pawn to queen two."
"Knight to king bishop three."
"Knight to knght one."
"Wait a minute," he said, finally realizing that something was amiss. (In addition to having a thoroughly irritating personality, Jonnie wasn't a very good chessplayer.) "What kind of move is that?"
"I'm moving your pieces back to their original squares," I answered. "I don't want to play chess now."
|Nov-16-18|| ||OhioChessFan: <The White player appeals and cites the chessgames.com kibiting in defense of his move.|
What happens next?>
The arbitrator looks at Rogoff instead of the game kibitzing and immediately retires.
|Dec-10-18|| ||al wazir: Here's a good problem from http://brainden.com/logic-puzzles.h...|
<There are three switches downstairs. Each corresponds to one of the three light bulbs in the attic. You can turn the switches on and off and leave them in any position.
How would you identify which switch corresponds to which light bulb, if you are only allowed one trip upstairs?>
But I'll make the problem a little harder. Suppose that one of the bulbs may have burned out, but you don't know in advance if this is the case or which one it is. How would you figure out which switch is which, making only one trip to the attic?
|Dec-10-18|| ||OhioChessFan: That does make it harder...|
|Dec-10-18|| ||OhioChessFan: Oh, duh, got it. That's rather enjoyable.|
|Dec-11-18|| ||al wazir: <OhioChessFan: Oh, duh, got it.> That was fast work.|
<That's rather enjoyable.> Thanks. But are you *sure* you got it?
|Dec-11-18|| ||moronovich: How many Rogoffers will it take to switch a light bulb ? :)|
|Dec-11-18|| ||ChessHigherCat: <moronovich: How many Rogoffers will it take to switch a light bulb ? :)>|
Two: one to change the lightbulb and the other to pose below it to look like he's having his first bright idea
|Dec-11-18|| ||john barleycorn: <moronovich: How many Rogoffers will it take to switch a light bulb ? :)>|
Light? which light? a bulb? which bulb? In <saffuna>'s words : "Show me where I said there was a light on Rogoff let alone one burning light" 100,000 volts and no light on.
|Dec-11-18|| ||Check It Out: And then another million chess players to analyze the technique used to change the light bulb: gait analysis, spread sheets, computer models calibrated for efficiency, etc
Followed up with "discussions" regarding the WCC format, best time controls, GOAT, and nazis.|
|Dec-11-18|| ||john barleycorn: <Check It Out: And then another million chess players...>|
Nah, no more. AZ is the new hope. AZ as in All's Zero.
|Dec-11-18|| ||al wazir: I want to give some pause (or should that be paws?) to those who think they have found the solution to the stumper I posted.|
I did a little experiment. I turned on a lamp with an incandescent bulb and checked to see how quickly it heated up. The bulb became warm to the touch almost immediately. I could still rest my hand on it up to about 30 seconds, but by a minute it was too hot to keep touching for more than a second or so.
As soon as I switched it off it began cooling. By thirty seconds I could touch it without discomfort. By two minutes I could barely feel any warmth. By three minutes it was undetectable.
But another bulb (e.g., one with a different wattage, or a compact fluorescent bulb) might have heated up and cooled off at a very different rate.
|Dec-11-18|| ||beatgiant: <al wazir>
Usually, the cleverness of these puzzles rests in the fact that nobody told us we can use the warmth of the bulbs. But what else didn't they tell us we can use?
Can we ask a second person to go to the attic while we try switches? Do we have a multimeter and a screwdriver so we can pull off the face plate and check what's going on in the circuits? Can we set up a video system to monitor the attic? Do we have one of those apps for remotely controlling the switches from our mobile device? Can we inflate three balloons each with a different pop sound, and leave one next to each light bulb? Can we attach different colored strings to the switches and run them up to the attic? Can we set up an array of mirrors between downstairs and the attic?
|Dec-11-18|| ||al wazir: <beatgiant: But what else didn't they tell us we can use?> Good point.|
I was going to wait a while and then post my solution to show everybody how clever I am. But you convinced me that my solution and I aren't so clever after all.
|Dec-11-18|| ||OhioChessFan: <beat: Usually, the cleverness of these puzzles rests in the fact that nobody told us we can use the warmth of the bulbs.>|
They only count as clever if you <know> your answer is correct.
<But what else didn't they tell us we can use?>
Meh, feeling the bulbs doesn't seem to violate the spirit of the puzzle. I know pornography and spirit of the rule breaking when I see them.
<Can we ask a second person to go to the attic while we try switches? Do we have a multimeter and a screwdriver so we can pull off the face plate and check what's going on in the circuits? Can we set up a video system to monitor the attic? Do we have one of those apps for remotely controlling the switches from our mobile device? Can we inflate three balloons each with a different pop sound, and leave one next to each light bulb? Can we attach different colored strings to the switches and run them up to the attic? Can we set up an array of mirrors between downstairs and the attic?>
Of course not, to all of them. I did consider mirrors, or simply a window reflection, but I <knew> those violated the spirit of the puzzle.
|Dec-11-18|| ||beatgiant: <OhioChessFan> <al wazir>'s post above seemed to be challenging the feasibility of using the heat of the bulb. If we all agree that we definitely can always use the heat of the bulb, then I'd call this a fair puzzle.|
But if <al wazir> has some other solution in mind that uses anything more than turning switches on and off and looking at or handling light bulbs, then I'd say all bets are off.
|Dec-12-18|| ||al wazir: <beatgiant: <al wazir>'s post above seemed to be challenging the feasibility of using the heat of the bulb. If we all agree that we definitely can always use the heat of the bulb, then I'd call this a fair puzzle. But if <al wazir> has some other solution in mind that uses anything more than turning switches on and off and looking at or handling light bulbs, then I'd say all bets are off.>|
As I implied, because of your post I'm no longer going to insist that my answer is better than anyone else's. But I'll run it up the flagpole anyway and let the rest of you decide whether to salute or shoot at it.
The intended solution to the original puzzle is as follows: Call the three switches A, B, and C (you can give them other names if you prefer, like Tom, Dick, and Harry), and the bulbs they control a, b, and c respectively.
1. Turn switch A to on.
2. Turn switch B to on.
3. After five minutes turn switch B to off.
Then rush up to the attic. When you get there, one bulb is lit. That is bulb a. The other two are off, but one of them is still warm. That is bulb b. By elimination the third one must be bulb c.
I'm guessing that <OhioChessFan>'s (and others') solution to the modified problem proceeded as above, but had an additional step, something like this:
4. Turn switch C to on, and then after 15 seconds turn it off.
After you rush to the attic one bulb will be lit, one will be very warm and one will be less warm. They are then identified as (respectively) a, b, and c. And if one of them is burned out (my modification of the problem) you can still identify two by sight or touch, and the third by elimination.
That was the first solution I thought of too. But after a bit I became dissatisfied with it, for the reason given in my previous post: you don't know a priori how long it takes for the bulbs to heat up or cool down. The two unlit bulbs might seem equally warm or equally cool. So I thought some more and came up with a different solution to the "modified" problem.
In this solution steps (1)--(3) are unchanged. There is no step (4). When you get up to the attic there are three possibilities:
Case (i): One bulb is lit. That is bulb a. The other two are off, but one is still warm. That is bulb b. The third must then be bulb c. To find out whether or not it is burnt out, swap it with the bulb in fixture a. If it doesn't light up it is burnt out and needs to be replaced.
Case (ii) When you get to the attic one bulb is lit, but both of the other two are cold. You know that those two must be b and c and that the bulb in fixture b must be burnt out, but you don't know which is which. Take one bulb out of its socket and try it in place of the one that is lit. If it works, then it must have come from fixture c, and the bulb in fixture b must be burnt out. If it doesn't work, it must have come from fixture b and be the one that is burnt out. You now know which is which.
Case (iii) When you get to the attic no bulb is lit, but one bulb is warm. That is bulb b. The other two are therefore bulbs a and c, but you don't know which is which. Swap them. One will light up. Now you know that this is the fixture controlled by switch A, and that the bulb you just removed from it is burnt out; the bulb that you have just inserted is the one that was previously in fixture c. So once again you have complete information.
Some of these operations necessarily have to be performed with no bulb lit. Having a flashlight would avoid a lot of fumbling and stumbling around in the dark.
I never said you couldn't use a flashlight.
|Dec-12-18|| ||beatgiant: <al wazir>
<my solution and I aren't so clever after all>
Actually that is the kind of solution I was expecting. And you are as clever as anyone here. However, from previous kibitzes I can guess a few limits too: you probably are not a professional meteorologist, software developer or Russian translator ;-)
|Dec-12-18|| ||al wazir: <beatgiant: I can guess a few limits too: you probably are not a professional meteorologist, software developer or Russian translator ;-).>|
I'm not a meteorologist.
|Dec-12-18|| ||OhioChessFan: Turn on A&B for 5 minutes. Then turn off B and turn on C. This method doesn't necessitate switching out an unlit bulb into a lit bulb's socket, which is what I thought at first.|
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