< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 351 OF 351 ·
|May-28-15|| ||Jim Bartle: In "etc."|
|May-28-15|| ||chancho: Poor Doctor J...|
|May-28-15|| ||unferth: <Jim Bartle: I would place West ahead of Robertson. Robertson was a little better for the first few years, but West remained a top player into the 70s. Same for Baylor, who hurt his knee around 1966 and wasn't the same after that.> well, Oscar won an MVP and Jerry didn't, and I think the consensus rates him a little ahead, but you could put those three in any order and I wouldn't quarrel.|
<On pure stats West is certainly one of the ten best.> I can't see that at all, sorry. he led the league in scoring one year & assists per game another, and he's sixth on the all-time PPG list, that's it.
<As far as balance is concerned, yes, centers and guards dominate. Bird and LeBron are the only forwards among the very greatest.> this is where Bob Pettit has a gripe, IMO. how do you make a case for West ahead of Pettit, a 2-time MVP, 2-time champ who was an all-star every year of his career? Duncan and Erving have very strong cases too.
<Malone, <(another 2-time MVP)> Baylor, Barkley, Barry, Havlicek, Pettit, DeBusschere, etc. Are in the next group.>
|May-28-15|| ||Jim Bartle: West vs. Pettit: On this one I will go back to what I saw. Pettit was great but West was greater. I'm happy to see Pettit in the discussion, though.|
I find it hard to judge Karl Malone. He scoted tons of points, rebounded, was amazingly consistent for many years. Won an MVP over Jordan.
But somehow he didn't seem like a clutch player. Probably unfair, I know. I would say if anybody has a beef with my list it would be Moses Malone, not Karl.u
|May-28-15|| ||HeMateMe: ten best? I would replace Karl Malone with LeBron.
Laimbeer is a moderately talented thug who left the NBA when the cheap shots were outlawed to the point where it would be a liability having he and Rick Mahorn on your team. Jordan himself said, regarding superstars leaving their teams to join other stars for a ring: "I didn't want to play *with* these guys [Bird, Magic, Isiah}, I wanted to beat them." The flagrant foul rules came in around the time of the Bad Boys. That, and the improvement of the Bulls meant the end for the Pistons. Laimbeer would have fouled out trying to guard LeBron near the basket. He is just jealous of Jordan. The Bulls became champions with a weaker bench than the Pistons did, which Laimbeer well knows. When Chicago eliminated the Pistons in the playoffs, Isiah led his team off the court before the game clock had run out, without congratulating Chicago. He was rewarded with being replaced by John Stockton on the 1992 Dream Team. No surprise that Isiah and Laimbeer retired together.
Give Lebron some credit for not leaving Cleveland earlier. He entered the NBA at age 18 and stayed with the Cavs for...nine years? In that time he dragged one Cavs team to the finals. Maybe he felt the ownership didn't try hard enough to surround him with the right kind of players. More likely, stars didn't want to live in Cleveland. He paid his dues, I can't fault him for going to Miami to see if something else would work.
How good was Jerry West? Nine finals, as JB mentions. It's difficult to evaluate him on championships because he was the flip side to Russell's 11 championships, shutting him out.
How good are the Cavs? From not making the playoffs, straight to the finals this year? I'm surprised. I thought sure they would have to learn a tough lesson or two at the hands of the Bulls, Heat or Pacers. Maybe the Eastern conference just sucks, and the group with the deepest bench of healthiest bodies was going to win.
All will be revealed on 6/4. Warriors in six.
|May-28-15|| ||Gryz: I just had a look at the team-history of the Cavalier players. There were 11 names on the roster that I recognized (from watching them play this month).|
Earlier in 2015, Cleveland acquired 4 players. They are with the Cavaliers less than 5 months: Mozgov, Kendrick Perkins, Shumpert, JR Smith.
At the start of the 2014-2015 season, Cleveland acquired 4 new players: LeBron James, James Jones, Kevin Love, Mike Miller.
Three names that I hadn't seen play much: Harris, Haywood and Marion. They all joined in 2014 too.
That's 11 out of 15 players that are completely new to the team. Less than 9 months each.
Who did I not mention yet ? The "seniors" are: Dellavedova. Joined in 2013 (2 years). Kyrie Irving and Tristan Thompson. Both joined in 2011 (4 years).
And there is Varej„o. He joined the Cavs in 2004 (11 years ago). Finally a real senior player. But he's injured. So he's not playing.
Sounds like a complete new team to me. David Blatt is the coach. And it is his first year in the NBA ! With 11 out of 15 players completely new this year, I guess nobody can predict what they will do. Weird.
|May-28-15|| ||Jim Bartle: First time two first-year coaches meet in the Finals since 1947, the league's first year.|
|May-28-15|| ||chancho: LeBron James left the Cavs after seven seasons, not nine.|
He was drafted in 2003, played for the Cavs from 2003-2004, until 2009-2010.
Michael Jordan started playing for the Bulls in the 1984-85 season and it took him seven seasons (1990-1991) to finally hold that trophy.
LeBron James got desperate for the <bling> and jumped ship.
He went back to Cleveland most likely because deep down in his mind he needed to redeem himself for the way he left Cleveland.
If he can win a championship for that city, yes, that will go a long way, but I suspect that he will end up on the losing end just like last season.
Golden State would have to collectively choke on toxic fumes in order to lose that final.
But I will admit: stranger things have happened.
|May-28-15|| ||Calli: <Get this:
Game 1, Thu June 4
Game 2, Sun June 7 >
I got it, although someone thought I was being "harsh". I think NBA training camp starts right after the finals. Hmmm, wonder why there are so many more injuries these days and teams don't repeat titles as much.
|May-28-15|| ||perfidious: Teeveemoney rules, yet again.
On the Chicago coaching carousel, Jerry Reinsdorf weighed in with a heavy-handed move, the following paragraph of which is an excerpt:
<"When everyone is on the same page, trust develops and teams can grow and succeed together. Unfortunately, there has been a departure from this culture.">
Guess sacking Thibs was not enough--had to paint the bugger as the worst thing to hit Chitown since Capone hisself.
|May-28-15|| ||chancho: Prior to the head coaching job at Chicago, Tom Thibodeau was an assistant coach for Doc Rivers and he helped the Celtics defense in that run to the title in the 2007-2008 season.|
I would not be surprised if he ends up working with Doc and the LA Clippers.
|May-28-15|| ||Jim Bartle: I think he's past being an assistant.|
|May-28-15|| ||chancho: <Jim> If he does not get offers for a head coaching job, I doubt he'll sit down and wait.|
Jimmy Rodgers was head Coach for the Celtics, and he got fired.
Ended up as an assistant with the Bulls.
|May-28-15|| ||unferth: he's going to get a ton of offers. I'd want the Lakers to go after him were it not for his tendency to run players into the ground|
|May-28-15|| ||perfidious: <unferth> Thibodeau going to Lakers would, at least, have the virtue of getting <Ko-me> to the end of the line all the quicker.|
|May-28-15|| ||chancho: <perfidious> lol...|
|May-29-15|| ||HeMateMe: Reinsdorf is an idiot. Chicago wasn't even a playoff team till Tibs took over.|
|May-29-15|| ||Strongest Force: It's terrible what happened to Thompson of GS. A knee to the head caused serious damage but the need to win was such that they put him back in the 5th game where things could have gotten much worst. My analogy may not fit but it reminds me of "lift that bale, tote that cotton" slavery. Maybe we are in the golden age of slavery were the 'slaves' are overcompensated:)|
|May-29-15|| ||plang: Tests cone a day later and they still don't think he has a concussion. Obviously there was an injury but it hasn't been diagnosed yet. Not clear to me that anything wrong was done.|
|May-29-15|| ||HeMateMe: Most certainly the locker room physician walked Splash Brother through the basic concussion Dx steps. That's all they can do, really. You can't specifically define a concussion with an MRI or EKG. If he can pass the basic steps the doc can let him play.|
If the signs appear later, a day or two, then perhaps he should be held out a minimum of one week? No one has all the answers to this.
This is different than the NFL, where you *will* get pummeled in the head each and every game. New policy there is to take out a player who has concussion symptoms, and that player cannot return to play that day. The players get around this by not admitting they have concussion symptoms, in the moment, but at least some effort is being made to prevent the worst of this.
In years past the Finals dates were flexible. If there were a lot of blowouts in the conference finals,they simply moved up the start date, usually giving both teams a minimum of three days off. It's the NBA, not the NFL. Maybe there is money involved, scheduled golf tournaments or some other crap, that blocks immediate coverage of the finals. It may be that the main networks will cover the finals in prime time, instead of TNT and ESPN, and this effects the scheduling?
|May-29-15|| ||plang: Pretty sure all Finals games are on ABC|
|May-29-15|| ||HeMateMe: Yeah, thus the unflexible scheduling.|
|May-29-15|| ||WannaBe: News: K. Thompson buys $2.2M house/mansion in Dana Point, CA.|
Guess Northern California just isn't for him. Or the property value are just out of his reach. He's not multi-billionaire like them Silicon Valley people. =)
|May-29-15|| ||Calli: Players on GS who make more than Steph Curry:
David Lee $15,493,680
Klay Thompson $15,501,000
Andrew Bogut $12,000,000
Andre Iguodala $11,710,456
Draymond Green - pending new contract
Stephen Curry $11,370,786
|May-29-15|| ||plang: Kerr admitted that had Lee not injured his hamstring at the end of pres-season he would probably still be starting and Green would be coming off the bench. Lee is a former All-Star but is having trouble getting playing time now.|
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