< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 536 OF 536 ·
|Feb-10-16|| ||WannaBe: LOL at CLE, I mean LAL@ CLE tonight, if you make me the bookie:|
Combined Kobe + LeBron shot attempts:
40 or more -115
39 or less -115
Combined Kobe + LeBron shots <MADE>:
13 or more -300
12 or less +270
Number of times LeBron looks at + passes to + acknowledge Kevin Love:
3 or more +500
2 or less -530
|Feb-10-16|| ||thegoodanarchist: http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page...|
LeBron is ranked above Magic in the NBA all-time top 5.
No way, I say. Magic was better than LaBron.
Problem is, Magic played with #2 of all time, Kareem Abdul Jabbar. Plus a host of other greats, such as Scott and Worthy. Hard to get all the credit you deserve when your teams are loaded to the hilt.
Clearly they are going to announce Jordan as #1.
|Feb-10-16|| ||plang: I continue to get a kick out of the emphasis on high draft picks and tanking.|
The number one priority is to be good at evaluating talent.
Look at the Warriors - Curry, Green and Thompson weren't the 1st people picked in the draft.
...or the Spurs - Parker Ginobili and Leonard weren't either
|Feb-10-16|| ||WannaBe: San Antonio didn't do too bad with two #1 (over all) picks either, some dude name David Robinson and some other guy name Tim Duncan.|
Surprised that Spurs didn't trade their #1 pick(s) for Greg Kite.
|Feb-10-16|| ||keypusher: It ought to be difficult to rank a forward against a guard, right? In football you generally don't think of "best 50 of all time." You think in terms of "best QBs," "best middle linebackers" etc. Basketball is a lot less structured than (American) football, obviously, but these kinds of rankings still seems tricky.|
|Feb-10-16|| ||Jim Bartle: <Look at the Warriors - Curry, Green and Thompson weren't the 1st people picked in the draft.>|
Minnesota had two picks right before the Warriors in 2009, and took two point guards, Ricky Rubio and Johnny Flynn. Then the Warriors took Curry.
Thompson was taken #11, right after Jimmer Fredette.
|Feb-10-16|| ||perfidious: <plang....The number one priority is to be good at evaluating talent.>|
You can't do that, might as well fold up your tent and stick to your day job.
|Feb-10-16|| ||Virgil A: My opinion. LeBron is overrated at #3. I'd even pick Kobe ahead of LeBron at this point in their careers. I mean 81 points, 5 rings, 15 All-NBA team. Come to think of it, LeBron doesn't even have a signature more. And Kobe has more times at the last seconds of the game where I'm like at the edge of my seat. I can not say that to any other player except MJ.|
|Feb-10-16|| ||Jim Bartle: <plang....The number one priority is to be good at evaluating talent.>|
I find evaluating talent pretty easy, and I'm almost always right. I just wait until three years after the draft, and decide who the best players were.
|Feb-10-16|| ||Jim Bartle: LeBron at #3 just sticks out as wrong. How about down to one slot below Bird?|
|Feb-10-16|| ||keypusher: <Jim Bartle: LeBron at #3 just sticks out as wrong. How about down to one slot below Bird?>|
It does seem awfully high. But why should he be lower than Bird? They're both great scorers and passers, right? LeBron is a lot better on defense, right?
I realize that's very superficial. But I'm curious to hear why it's so clear Bird should be higher.
|Feb-10-16|| ||HeMateMe: <winning has followed him like a stray puppy.>|
He made the finals....once in his first seven years, about the same achievement as Allen Iverson? If he was such a helluva guy, great teammate [Jabber], great leader [Magic Johnson], then why didn't elite free agents come running to Cleveland where they would be CERTAIN of getting a ring with "The greatest player in the world?"
Perhaps they were allergic to all of that talcum powder?
|Feb-10-16|| ||keypusher: I sure do like Durant's tweet on being selected as the #4 small forward. Hope the link works. |
|Feb-10-16|| ||Jim Bartle: I will admit to prejudices that I find hard to give up For many years I believed Elgin Baylor was the best small forward ever, and it took several straight brilliant years to make me concede that Bird was better. |
So maybe there's something like that with LeBron. LeBron has played longer at a high level than Bird did, 13 years now to 9 or 10, but I think Bird played at a higher level during those years before his back hindered his play too much.
The ESPN poll was made by a panel of experts, through "thousands of head-to-head matchups." I can only think that led to a bias toward current players.
|Feb-10-16|| ||Jim Bartle: So ESPN immediately comes out with a panel of their writers and "insiders" discussing whether LeBron has a chance to pass Jordan as the best ever.|
They can do that because came out #3. It would be a lot tougher if he had been ranked #6 or #7. Color me suspicious.
|Feb-10-16|| ||unferth: <HeMateMe: He made the finals....once in his first seven years, about the same achievement as Allen Iverson?>|
he was drafted by a 17-65 team that improved by 18 games in his first season & was soon one of the top teams in the league year in and year out; when he left, they dropped from 61 wins to 19. the team he joined suddenly reached four straight finals, winning two; as soon as he left, they dropped below .500 and out of the playoffs, while the team he joined jumped from 33 wins to 53, reached the finals (his fifth straight), currently sits at .725, and is the odds-on favorite to reach the finals again. every team he's joined has gotten dramatically better, and every team he's left has gotten dramatically worse. if you don't see that as a winner's track record, I can't help you.
<If he was such a helluva guy, great teammate [Jabber], great leader [Magic Johnson], then why didn't elite free agents come running to Cleveland where they would be CERTAIN of getting a ring with "The greatest player in the world?">
um, perhaps because (a) top NBA free agents rarely change teams (b) Dan Gilbert is a cheap @#$%stick and (c) Cleveland is a @#$%hole? his record of attracting teammates is actually quite good.
|Feb-10-16|| ||Jim Bartle: During Cavs 1.0 LeBron was almost a one-man team. They really didn't have a single decent player above role player status.|
|Feb-10-16|| ||WannaBe: Wow, things just keep on getting better for them Browns:|
|Feb-10-16|| ||HeMateMe: everybody wanted to play in LA with Magic and Kareem. Why didn't anyone want to go to Cleveland? In the last couple of years players on the Miami and Cleveland teams have *pointedly* told the media "Lebron is the best player in the world."|
Is that because they were worried that if they didn't kiss some azz they might get pointed towards the door?
Every team that drafts a great player is awful when that player starts. The Bucks were a doormat when they got Kareem, two years later they were world champions.
If Lebron is so great, why did he labor alone for 7 years in Cleveland? It's not about talent, its about "Can I build around this guy? Will other players fit in well with him?" I don't think his Cleveland team is ever going to win a championship with him.
In fact, I think that in about three years Me-bron is going to leave Cleveland and humbly trot off to a contender saying nice polite things like "I'm all about winning and being the best teammate I can be! It's _____'s [fill in the blank with new young NBA stud] team, I'm just happy to be here to contribute!" He'll do just what Barkley and Karl Malone did, go run off and try to find a winner.
|Feb-10-16|| ||WannaBe: Three years?! I think his contract have the player option to leave after THIS SEASON.|
I think... Need to confirm that.
|Feb-10-16|| ||Jim Bartle: <everybody wanted to play in LA with Magic and Kareem. >|
Is that right? What free agents did they sign during the 80s? What star players did they sign during that time?
They got Mychal Thompson, a valuable sub, in a trade. McAdoo had failed with several teams before LA signed him. They got Byron Scott in a trade before he had ever played a game.
Otherwise it was Kareem, who came in a trade where LA gave up a ton of talent, and a bunch of players they got in the draft: Magic, Worthy, Green, Cooper, Nixon early on. Rambis was a free agent.
|Feb-10-16|| ||WannaBe: Here's something interesting or perspective...
If Cleveland Cavs play in the Western Conference, they'd be #4 right now, behind GS, SA, OKC.
#8 Charlotte (27-26) is 11.5 games behind CLE, #8 Utah (26-26) is 22 games back of GS.
Worst part, LAC (currently Western Conf. #4) even without B. Griffin, would be 3 games behind Cleveland, if Clippers play in Eastern Conference.
And that would make Clippers #2 in the East, behind Cleveland and in front of Toronto.
|Feb-10-16|| ||unferth: the Cavs were over the salary cap every single year of LeBron's first run, and Dan Gilbert was a small-market cheapskate. in addition, thanks to the Bird rule, top NBA players rarely change teams; here's a full list of big stars in their prime who hit free agency during LeBron's first tenure:|
2004 Kobe Bryant, Manu Ginobili, Steve Nash
2005 Ray Allen
2008 Chris Paul, Gilbert Arenas
that's it, and of those, only Nash changed teams, going from Dallas back home to Phoenix. there was a major star who broke this trend in 2010, taking a big pay cut in hopes of building a title winner with a new team, but his name slips my mind. anyway, I'm sure he did it for entirely greedy, self-serving reasons.
|Feb-11-16|| ||unferth: <HeMateMe: everybody wanted to play in LA with Magic and Kareem.> if this had been the case, Tom Chambers would've been in LA in 1988, and the Lakers would have won half a dozen straight titles ... among many other examples.|
|Feb-11-16|| ||perfidious: <WannaBe> Worst part of that story is that the idiot LB in Cleveland is already on five years' probation after being convicted of two separate incidents selling dope--has he got himself up against it.|
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