< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 31 OF 102 ·
|Jun-28-12|| ||I play the Fred: <It was, or should have been, an absolutely crushing loss for the Hawks--but in the locker room, a reporter interviewed Wilkins and he calmly shrugged his shoulders & said "win some, lose some, there's always next year." I remember thinking that if a reporter had stuck a mic into Bird or Magic's face at a moment like that, they'd have bitten the guy's head off.>|
You might think that based on their success, and Bird could be prickly to the media at times, but I never saw either Bird or Magic fail to answer questions earnestly, even after a tough loss. After the '84 Finals, the loss in game seven at the Garden, Magic said through a smile (I paraquote) "We helped them, we gave it to them...and they won it at the same time." Bird said, dourly but not rudely, after a Finals loss to the Lakers (again para-quoting) "They didn't want it any more than we did. They just played better."; also, "Magic's just unreal, you know...the best I've ever seen. Unbelievable...I don't know what to say."
It's tempting to believe that they would have snapped after a big loss, but both of them took many big losses in their careers, and they didn't wear their passion on their sleeves in answering for those losses, though the loss was very much evident.
As for Dominique, maybe he felt that it was important to show some poise in defeat, like 1987 was a stepping stone to greater glory. Sometimes you don't want to give your opponent the satisfaction of letting him know how much losing hurt you, and putting up a front was one way to do that.
|Jun-28-12|| ||Jim Bartle: Terry Cummings was a very good player, but...come on.|
|Jun-28-12|| ||I play the Fred: I have to refine my earlier opinion on Dominique v. Worthy: in terms of actual value, they weren't much different. I'd still take Dominique, but it's closer than I would have thought. For good measure I'll throw in Terry Cummings since he came up.|
<Games played>: 926 for Worthy, 907 for Wilkins, 835 for Cummings.
<Minutes per game>: 36.9 for Wilkins, 32.8 for Cummings, 32.4 for Worthy
<FG%>: Worthy 52.1%, Cummings 48.7%, Wilkins 46.7%
<FT%>: Wilkins 81.3%, Worthy 76.9%, Cummings 71.1%
<PPG>: Wilkins 26.5, Cummings 20.8, Worthy 17.6
<RPG>: Cummings 8.4, Wilkins 6.9, Worthy 5.1
<APG>: Worthy 3.0, Wilkins 2.6, Cummings 2.2
<BPG>: Three-way tie at 0.7
<SPG>: Wilkins 1.4, Cummings 1.2, Worthy 1.1
<Win Shares at forward>: Wilkins 3rd, Worthy 8th, Cummings 9th
<Win Shares overall>: Wilkins 7th, Worthy 17th, Cummings 19th
<Offensive/Defensive rating> Cummings 109/105, Wilkins 112/108, Worthy 112/108
<PER>: Wilkins 22.1, Cummings 19.2, Worthy 17.7
Basically, the Lakers were in a no-lose scenario in that 1982 draft, and they didn't.
|Jun-28-12|| ||King Death: < I play the Fred: ...And I must insist that (<Jim Bartle> use(s)) <brackets> instead of "quotes" in the future, or I will spill the beans about a time you agreed with a conservative on the Rogoff page.>|
Tell Jim that he's a moron and that he doesn't know a thing about basketball and he'll laugh at you, but this is serious. He'll be on the next plane out of Lima to hunt you down if you say anything like that again.
|Jun-28-12|| ||King Death: <I play the Fred> I tend to agree with your likely explanation in re Wilkins and his answer to that reporter, if one of them came to me just after I got KO'd by a two outer in a poker tournament for serious money I'd be boiling inside but they'd never see it.|
|Jun-28-12|| ||unferth: <King Death, I play the Fred> |
my recollection (which certainly may be inaccurate after 25 years) is that Wilkins was almost blase; he absolutely did not give me the impression of a man who was torn up inside, or the moment wouldn't have stuck with me all these years. and of course I saw many instances of Magic and Bird being comparatively gracious in defeat, but with both of them it was most always evident that they were inwardly seething.
|Jun-28-12|| ||HeMateMe: perhaps Jerry West saw Worthy as the best fit for the run and gun lakers. Was Terry Cummings more of a half court guy, a bit slow like Larry Bird, but a better rebounderthan Worthy? I was a huge Bucks fan, they were my favorite team. Nellie and his fish-design ties. Blue collar Milwaukee and cold beer. Beat the Lakers on their court and make Jack Nicholson cough up a chalupa! I do know that Cummings helped to keep the Bucks in the playoffs for years. He just may not have been fast enough to play Show Time.|
James Worthy was somewhat introverted; I haven't read too many interviews. Sports Illustrated did a piece on him back in the day, and they mentioned that Worthy'd desire, after his playing career, was to own a funeral home, to be a mortician. I'm not making this up. They also said that he kept a guest book in his house, and asked all visitors to sign in, that is to write something. The author mentioned that it is some sort of old fashioned custom in the deep south, to have guests in your home sign a guest book. Worthy was a Carolina guy, I think he played for Somehow, I don't think James Worthy would have really fit into today's In-your-face NBA.
Has anyone noticed that, when the Detroit Pistons (the BAAAD Boys) got a little older and stared to lose playoff series, the reporters never visited their locker room? Maybe they were afraid Dennis Rodman would choke them with his bra?
|Jun-28-12|| ||chancho: Terry Cummings had a heart condition I believe?|
|Jun-28-12|| ||HeMateMe: Yes, later inlife. Hope he's ok.|
|Jun-29-12|| ||Albertan: <Jun-28-12 Premium Chessgames> <Member chancho: Terry Cummings had a heart> <condition I believe?>|
Chancho I saw your post will surfing the recent messages in Chessgames.com
and thought I would answer your question. According to the website:
"Terry Cummings has an irregular heartbeat and he managed to have a productive career after the diagnosis because he had this problem treated immediately."This condition is also known as Attrial Fibrillation.It can be a very dangerous condition,which can even be fatal if not treated properly and correctly. Believe it or not one way of dealing with this condtion is to give the patient rat poison (Warafarin) in a prescription! I know about this condition because someone in my family had it.
|Jun-29-12|| ||unferth: yeah, Cummings had a heart murmur or something like that diagnosed early in his career & was put on meds. he never quite lived up to his rookie brilliance, and I recall it being speculated that the meds were the reason.|
still, he was a brilliant player, and no, he wasn't slow or immobile. he wasn't as quick as Worthy, certainly, but he could run the court. if the Lakers had picked him, he'd have been the perfect solution to their long-running (relative) weakness at pf--and maybe they could have squeezed a few more years out of Jamaal Wilkes (whom Worthy hastened into retirement) & then filled the sf spot with another scorer. as it was, they were always trying to battle inside with an overmatched Kurt Rambis & washed-up vets like Maurice Lucas, at least until they got A.C. Green (who was an an athletic upgrade but still undersized and a bit limited skill-wise).
|Jun-29-12|| ||HeMateMe: The kids would show up at the Forum with goofy Rambis look alike glasses. It looked like half the arena was getting ready to rob a bank. You had to like Kurt, a supreme overachiever.|
A.C. Green was a certainly a more complete player than "Rambo", but I wonder if the Lakers were a better team with Green? With Kurt, the Lakers beat Boston three out of five in the finals. I'm not sure if Rambis was there for all five finals. I guess it really comes down to Jabber finally getting too old to do it.
I think Jabber was coaching American indians for several years, not so long ago, a very nice thing for him to do.
|Jun-29-12|| ||Jim Bartle: Better to get the medication and play not quite as well than to play brilliantly for a while and then die. That's what happened with Hank Gathers at Loyola Marymount.|
|Jun-29-12|| ||Strongest Force: If anyone takes a vacation in NYC this summer and want to see some street-balling at it's best, I can proudly point to two places where I played much: west 4th at 6th ave and 135th and 5th ave. West 4th is a block from the famous chess tables of WSP (the park) which is in the middle of NYU. The other is where many famous players like Wilt liked to hang...and where I was born and raised! Summer tournaments usually take place at both courts with many top school-boy and college players.|
|Jun-29-12|| ||HeMateMe: I watch them 'ball on West 4th, now and then. A slice of Americana. I heard that one year the Lakers were in town, and Magic and some of the guys stopped by West 4th to watch.|
The court is so tiny, though. The adjacent handball courts are almost unused--they should be remodeled, let there be 3 roundball courts in that square, or just two bigger ones.
|Jun-29-12|| ||I play the Fred: <With Kurt, the Lakers beat Boston three out of five in the finals.>|
Two out of three. They met in 1984, 1985, and 1987. Boston won the first one.
<I guess it really comes down to Jabber finally getting too old to do it.>
Jabbar. Not Jabb<e>r, Jabb<a>r.
|Jun-29-12|| ||unferth: <HeMateMe: I wonder if the Lakers were a better team with Green? With Kurt, the Lakers beat Boston three out of five in the finals.>|
two of three, as <I play the Fred> said. Kurt was the starter in 84 & 85, A.C. in 87. I always thought the 85 team was incrementally the best of those (even though the 87 squad had a better record) because Kareem was still a force; by 87 he was nearing his dotage--but it's pretty much a coin flip.
|Jul-02-12|| ||Jim Bartle: When LA drafted Worthy I figured he'd become the power forward, with Wilkes remaining at small forward. When they put him at SF, I think that was one of the first times a player that tall had played that position.|
|Jul-03-12|| ||Strongest Force: Thx 2 Raptors, Lin could get nice contract. Raptors & Knicks want same point guard & if Knicks get him the Raptors will punish Knicks by making them pay more (40 million for 4 years?) for Lin. Its all conjecture however.|
|Jul-03-12|| ||Jim Bartle: If Lin goes to Toronto he'll just disappear off the map in terms of visibility.|
|Jul-03-12|| ||Strongest Force: JB, you are wrong about Lin & Raptors. The Nets and Raptors continue to pressure Knicks. Nets now have Joe Johnson in back-court with Williams! Raptors just stole Landry from the Knicks to further entice Lin! If Nets get Howard it's all-over for Knicks. The Raptors know Lin would be a "cash cow" in Toronto with tons of Lin fans. Raptors also know Landry is Lin's best friend. The Raptors want Nash but if knicks get him they want Lin.|
|Jul-03-12|| ||Strongest Force: This just came in on wire: Lin will be interviewed by Rockits tomorrow!
If Knicks lose both Nash and Lin many Knick fans will be pissed.|
|Jul-03-12|| ||Jim Bartle: Is Nash considering going to the Knicks? I don't see it, but who knows? He'd be reunited with Stoudemire, the Knicks have good outside shooters to receive his passes, and they have a lot of young players. Plus it's New York.|
I think Nash will stay in Phoenix, though.
|Jul-03-12|| ||King Death: <Jim Bartle> Nash to the Knicks would be a surprise, right now the hot idea is him going to Toronto for a couple of years then saying goodbye NBA.|
|Jul-03-12|| ||King Death: < unferth: ...I always thought the 85 team was incrementally the best of those (even though the 87 squad had a better record) because Kareem was still a force; by 87 he was nearing his dotage--but it's pretty much a coin flip.>|
Two great teams any way you slice it that went at each other with everything they had over a few years, it isn't often in any sport that we see that.
Other old NBA fans may remember that the 1985 finals were the first with the 2-3-2 format and that Larry Bird bitched after the Lakers won game 2 to claim home court, about having to play 3 straight on the road. There was a pretty simple solution, the Celtics could've done the job after winning the Boston Massacre in game 1.
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 31 OF 102 ·