< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 40 OF 105 ·
|Aug-05-12|| ||perfidious: <Me-lo>'s head is so far in the clouds, I doubt he even takes notice of whether D'Antoni exists, now that he hasn't got to put up with him on an everyday basis. If Anthony doesn't get the ball when he wants it, though, there's hell to pay......|
|Aug-05-12|| ||Riverbeast: <The New York coach that Melo helped get fired, Mike D'Antonio>|
I think the media pretty much made that up
For some reason, even though Melo is a local boy, the New York media loves to blame him for everything
Melo did not get D'Antoni fired...The team was playing poorly, losing a lot of games, and D'Antoni's West Coast, run-and-gun, no-defense style, just doesn't cut it in the East
The Knicks were losing a lot of games well before Melo even came to the team
Melo was not the reason the team was losing all those games
If Jeremy Lin hadn't caught fire and temporarily saved D'Antoni's job, he probably would have been fired sooner
|Aug-05-12|| ||Jim Bartle: Anthony is a real gunner, though. In the game against Lithuania, in the fourth quarter when it was still about tied, he brought the ball down on a three-on-one, with somebody open going to the basket, and he just pulled up and missed a three-pointer.|
In fact, through most of the game, the US was content to just toss up long jumpers. And if there's a night they're not going in, it's trouble.
|Aug-05-12|| ||Riverbeast: <Anthony is a real gunner, though. In the game against Lithuania, in the fourth quarter when it was still about tied, he brought the ball down on a three-on-one, with somebody open going to the basket, and he just pulled up and missed a three-pointer.>|
Yeah...But Melo also scored 37 points in something like 14.5 minutes (!) in the game against Nigeria
I think he went 10-12 from the three point line
Anthony is one of the best scorers in the league, period....Maybe that's why the media keeps claiming he's 'selfish' and 'egotistical'
They said the same thing about Lebron James, especially when he went to Miami with Wade and Bosh
I was always baffled by that tag...Since Lebron James was trying to team up with other superstars who could also take the ball, in order to try to win a championship...That actually seemed pretty unselfish to me
And in hindsight, it seemed to be the right decision...In spite of what all the haters said
|Aug-05-12|| ||HeMateMe: The knicks went on a long losing streak, where "Melo" wasn't scoring many ponts. Then, as soon as D'Antonio got fired Melo's numbers were back up, and the Knicks won some games. |
I think it falls under the category of star player(s) get coach fired. Melo didnt wan't the motion offense that the coach wanted to use. He just dogged it until they fired Mike D. They can't fire the players, so they fired the coach.
|Aug-05-12|| ||Jim Bartle: I just watch the games, riverbeast. It seems to me Anthony loves to shoot, and sometimes shoots even if someone else is clearly open with a better shot.|
|Aug-05-12|| ||Riverbeast: <He just dogged it until they fired Mike D>|
That's what the media claimed
How do we know if he was really 'dogging' it?
If he's as selfish and as big a ballhog as the sportswriters claim he is, I would think he wold have been happy with D'Antoni's 'shoot first, ask questions later' philosophy
The team wasn't playing defense, D'Antoni wasn't preaching defense, and that's why the Knicks were losing games, IMO
You can't blame one player if a system isn't working....That's the fault of the coach
|Aug-05-12|| ||perfidious: Seems to me that <Me-lo> was happy with the system, as he would be whenever he gets to put it up 75 times a game. Imagine if you will, Anthony playing the triangle with Jordan in there. Think he'd do much whinging about getting the ball? Jordan would tell him to stuff it.|
One part of the equation which seems to be overlooked is that Nuggets were a better team once <Me-lo> left Denver. All those spare parts who took his place made that team better than what had gone.
|Aug-05-12|| ||Shams: <Riverbeast> But 'Melo was known as a black hole in Denver too. Plus, in his interviews he hardly sounds like a team player.|
|Aug-05-12|| ||Strongest Force: The whole Olympic team imo is a <Me-lo>-type team. Everyone wants to look pretty as they shoot the jumpers but who wants to do the "dirty work"? The 92 team was about dirty work: defense, rebounds and team work.|
|Aug-05-12|| ||Riverbeast: <But 'Melo was known as a black hole in Denver too>|
Maybe....But Melo was by far the best scorer on the team, so he had to take the majority of the shots
He didn't have that great a supporting cast
He's the best scorer on the Knicks, so naturally he will have to take more shots
The Knicks #2 scoring option is Stoudemire, who is not quite the same as he used to be...And after him, maybe J.R. Smith...Who can score but is very streaky (He reminds me a bit of John Starks)
If Melo can draw a lot of double teams under Woodson's system, and look to pass out of the double teams and find the open man, he will be a more well rounded player...And maybe shake the 'selfish' tag that seems to go around like a virus in the media
It always seems to have to land on someone
Anthony's teammates have gone on record saying the label is unfair...That Melo is not really a selfish player at all
|Aug-06-12|| ||Shams: <Riverbeast> Fair points. I will defer to you; I don't follow the sport that closely nor am I knowledgeable enough about it to form a valid opinion. I do prefer the college game which certainly *seems* more team-oriented, though it's hard to forget Syracuse's last national title, where the winning strategy seemed to be: give the ball to Carmelo Anthony and get out of his way.|
|Aug-06-12|| ||perfidious: <Shams> In college, that seems a defensible strategy, as the talent level is much diluted vis-a-vis the NBA. You ride your horse, then do it some more. Don't blame Boeheim one iota for that.|
As to what <Riverbeast> says regarding Anthony and his ability to adjust in Woodson's system, I'll keep an open mind but the jury's out. Changing one's makeup after playing a lifetime where one IS centre stage calls for a huge adjustment, and who knows whether anyone could adapt? We see scenarios all the time in sports where a fading star tries grimly hanging on to past glories, yet this is a player with a lot left.
|Aug-06-12|| ||HeMateMe: Hasn't Denver been winning, and improved over last season, by taking the best young Knick players and getting rid of Melo? I believe they improved over last year. They seem to have done well, and got a rid of a player who no longer wanted to be there.|
But, I guess one can't fault the Knicks for grabbing an "impact" player.
Wise evaluators must have realized that Denver let Melo go because the team simply hadn't progressed with him--seven years is long enough to form an opinion--the Knicks aren't stupid, for the most part. When the stars are properly aligned, on some nights, either Melo or Stouramire will get off and score 30, and the team will win. They just don't look deep enough, right now, to have any real impact in the league.
Most certainly, NBA expansion should end, as the talent is heavily diluted. The fact that Lebron and the skinny guy could go to Miami and almost immediately win a championship says it all.
|Aug-06-12|| ||I play the Fred: FWIW, Denver had its best NBA season ever with Melo in 2009, winning 54 games and two playoff series.|
<Most certainly, NBA expansion should end, as the talent is heavily diluted.>
When was the talent pool most recently less diluted? Ten years ago? Thirty?
|Aug-06-12|| ||HeMateMe: 2009 was three years ago. The team was stalemated.
Too diluted? I would say the last expansion, which I think included the charlotte Bobacats and Memphis team, were ill advised. They haven't made money, and the league is spread just that more thinly.
|Aug-06-12|| ||I play the Fred: Charlotte was the 30th NBA franchise, added before the 2004-05 season. There were 22 franchises from 1977-80, then 23 from 1981-88. Two were added in 1989, two more in 1990, and still two more in 1996.|
But as far as diluted talent goes, we're nowhere close to that. Since 1977, the US population-to-team ratio has always been at least 9 million people per team, often over 10 million. That's just US population; we get a lot of players from other countries.
|Aug-06-12|| ||HeMateMe: There are too many, small market teams that stink. That's dilution.|
|Aug-06-12|| ||I play the Fred: I'm noticing a certain lack of rigor in your replies. Time to move on.|
|Aug-06-12|| ||perfidious: <HMM> Memphis wasn't an expansion team-they were moved from Vancouver, whence they got the nickname Grizzlies.|
|Aug-06-12|| ||perfidious: <Fred> Fair enough. My recollection though is that something was rotten in the state of Denmark, and we all likely remember reports coming out of Denver throughout the saga of 'will they or won't they trade the bugger?'
George Karl was at the end of his tether, trying to deal with Anthony as I recall.|
|Aug-06-12|| ||I play the Fred: <perf> I actually am more on your side than not, but for fairness' sake Denver's 2009 occurred <with> Melo on board. I haven't looked into it yet, but my guess is that Melo's game was about the same then as it always was.|
If Melo could play with a top-notch all-rounder, a LeBron, Chris Paul, or in-his-prime Jason Kidd just to name three, that would be perfect. That duo would win 55-60 games per year because the primary ballhandler would know exactly when to get it to Melo or when not to.
|Aug-06-12|| ||Jim Bartle: I wonder what damage (positive, that is) Anthony could have done before zone defenses were legalized. He would have been deadly on the isolation plays, which are now largely a thing of the past.|
|Aug-06-12|| ||perfidious: <Fred> Here are Anthony's career stats: http://www.basketball-reference.com...|
He seems to have remained much the same player as when he debuted in the NBA, with one exception-he's an improved three-point shooter.
You mentioned that Nuggets won 54; the same season, they also went to the West finals against Lakers. The next year Denver won 53 but took an early train home.
The Western Conference has been tough for years now-more so than the East. Bit of a role reversal from the 1980s, when Lakers were the only consistently strong team and the East was brutal.
|Aug-08-12|| ||perfidious: Another piece on Anthony:
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