< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 98 OF 125 ·
|Jul-07-12|| ||HeMateMe: Murray is first Brit finalist in 74 years. God speed.|
|Jul-07-12|| ||Jim Bartle: The men's doubles final is being played by four players I have never heard of. A lot of people say these guys are doubles specialists and better than the top singles players in doubles. |
I don't think so, but I guess we'll see at the Olympics, where I assume a lot of the top singles players will be playing doubles as well.
There are certainly exceptions, great doubles players who weren't so great in singles, but at least they were still in the top 100. What I do remember is teams made up of former top players past their primes (Roche-Newcombe, Smith-Lutz in the mid-70s) carving up teams made up highly-ranked singles players. And having fun doing it.
|Jul-07-12|| ||HeMateMe: Serena gets her fifth Wimbly. First 30+ champ since Martina N., 1990.|
|Jul-07-12|| ||Jim Bartle: I'd be fascinated to know how many total matches Serena has played vs. Navratilova when she won Wimbledon at age 30 (1987). I'll bet Martina had played twice as many.|
|Jul-07-12|| ||Calli: I get 88 singles matches for Martina through 1987:
8 wins 8 x 7 = 56
3 SF = 18
2 QF = 10
1 3rd = 3
1 1st rd = 1
For Serena, I get 75:
5 wins + 2 finals 7 x 7 = 49
1 SF = 6
2 QF = 10
1 4th Rd = 4
2 3rd Rd = 6
But of course Martina won 3 more times and thus played deeper into the tournament.
|Jul-07-12|| ||Jim Bartle: Actually I meant all matches in all tournaments, which can't be easy to calculate. I was hoping to suggest that Serena may be a pretty young thirty in athletic terms since she has played relatively little. Certainly neither of the Williams sisters have been regulars on the women's tour outside the Slams. (Which is fine.)|
Of course Serena had a serious medical problem last year, something which Navratilova never had that I know of.
|Jul-07-12|| ||achieve: Shiva
Thanks for the extension, I watched the Robin Hood act; quite stunning.
My comp has had circuit failure, so just logging in here for a few tablet remarks.
Great second set by Radwanska, but surely Serena was much too strong, and keeping it together was all she needed to do.
Men's final - wow Murray's really moved up several gears and will make life hard, very hard, for fed. Then, third and fourth sets, the chips are down and lots can be won or lost. I wonder whether Fed can carry the weight. wonder
|Jul-07-12|| ||Jim Bartle: During the first set I really thought we might be watching a 6-0 6-0. But Radwanska improved some and Serena really dropped in the second set, and even in the third she wasn't hitting anywhere near as hard as at the start.|
Unnamed announcer said that after the first set Serena looked like she was thinking about her technique, hitting carefully and properly. He said she should just be seeing the ball and crushing it, no deep thinking.
Tomorrow's gonna be great. All I want is that neither one gets wiped out in three quick sets. I wonder which royals are going to be there? William and Kate? Steffi and Andre?
|Jul-07-12|| ||achieve: Who is the unnamed annoucer? Jimmy A.? ;)
Davenport said that Serena has serious troubles handling the tension, with increasing age. AGainst Stosur, and at the french... In the first set I was wondering how the heck Radwa had gotten to the final, such was the weakness in her shots, but she upped her game after th break, Serena dropped hers, and a watchable final for a change. I predict tomorrow will be very good, esp regarding the psychologies of the two; whether they can free up to play their fluent and forceful games. Both have superb footwork, M served like a demon vs Tsonga, and there should be fireworks if the mental side holds up and functions well. I can't wait, I assure you that.
|Jul-07-12|| ||Jim Bartle: Unnamed announcer: Arias, of course.
Increasing age: I think athletes begin to realize how important big games or matches are, start thinking more, makes it tougher. Some of the best are able to ignore it, stay cool.
Dan Marino made a comment to that effect, saying he wasn't nervous playing in the Super Bowl his second year, and not even that upset his team had lost. He figured there would be lots of other opportunities. As he got older he realized how hard it was, and he felt the tension.
|Jul-07-12|| ||achieve: Yes. And yet there is certainly a biological component in play, which is commonly known, though little solid research, is my guess. In chess and Billiards, Snooker, where the physical degeneration/decline plays less of a role, one can observe this, though exceptions to the rule are there, like Raymond Ceulemans in Billiards. |
Psyychlogically, as your career lengthens, the number of defeats will accumulate, and the brain starts to "recollect" those "bad memories" more and more, and the physiology of the sweating and related reactions will affect, ironically, the player with " experience" more so than the younger conqueror and still improoving and climbing fearless one.
Interesting to study the changing dynamics in there, and the constant struggle for the aging top player to withstand and deal with, compensate for, those pressures and processes. Taking a break can also work wonders; and for others it is lethal.
|Jul-07-12|| ||Jim Bartle: One of the best-known examples of this is the inability of top professional golfers to putt well as they get older. Players like Tom Watson can still hit the ball as well or close to as well as the best pros (not quite as far any more) but instead consistently making 5-foot putts, he now consistently misses them.|
|Jul-07-12|| ||achieve: Very good example, the putting woes. Some of the older guard still regularly features on the leaderboard after 2, perhaps 3 rounds, but invariably in the last round they can not keepp the driive on the fairway, or their putting goes down the hole, err, drain. Or both. The irons somehow seem less affected negatively.|
I'll drive myself to my bed now, as I want to be top fit for tomorrow's final. It'll get tense. Federer's little interview and look ahead sounded very self-assured, "I could get nervous, but I'll deal with that so it won't happen", he said casually, as if dealt with already. Fed is back kind of tone.
|Jul-08-12|| ||HeMateMe: <JB> Martina N. DID have a serious illness, in her early 20s. She was suffering from BigMacemmia, where the fatty "special sauce" from McDonald's Big Macs accumulates in your blood stream, causing slugishness and weight gain.|
This affliction is more common in chessplayers and NFL footballers, not so much in tennis. Martina changed her diet and made a spendid recovery.
|Jul-08-12|| ||shivasuri4: Strictly speaking, it's not just Federer's mental side that has gone down. This may not be the most appropriate time to say it, but his passing abilities have diminished. He hits the net more often nowadays. This problem surfaced against the attacking Benneteau, but not so much against Djokovic, who played mainly from the baselines.|
|Jul-08-12|| ||achieve: I could not disagree more, Shiva, you can not draw a conclusion like that from one game example, and on top of that Benneteau is not a net-player, he hits very aggressive groundstrokes when he is hot, and Federer barely got the chance to position for a decent passing shot. Added to that, the BH passing shots versus Djokovic looked breathtaking at times.
If anything Federer is about to get back to #1, among heavily improved competion by Nole and Rafa, 2009 Delpo, and tomorrow Murray is up.|
Words of assessment like "going down" and "decline" are really insultive to Federer's 2012 (plus late 2011) surge.
|Jul-08-12|| ||achieve: But really let's not get into arguments on the eve of the most anticipated Wimbledon Final in modern history, with a Brit in the final after 70+ years, and the greatest ever going for #1 plus 7th title on the other side of the net.|
Of course we may be critical at any time we please, but some proportionality and timing may be advised. ;)
|Jul-08-12|| ||shivasuri4: No, it's not just that one match. I have watched Federer hit passes more consistently earlier, and I am certain this aspect of the game has gone down. It's all relative, of course, for others may not get to even hit the ball until the net.|
And no, Federer is certainly not going down, it's only some aspects of his game.
Prediction for today's finals: Men's singles: Federer- Murray The Swiss should take this in 4, with Murray winning either the second or the third set.
Mixed doubles: I expect the pairing of Mike Bryan and Lisa Raymond to win in 3 sets against Leander Paes and Elena Vesnina.
|Jul-08-12|| ||shivasuri4: Oh wow, the Williams sisters won the ladies' doubles! They will fancy their chances in the Olympics next.|
|Jul-08-12|| ||achieve: What do you mean by "earlier" ?
At any rate I do not share your observtion on Federer's passing, quite contrary is true, and I have watched a lot of Federer these past 6 months. But I. Refrain from entering a contest of this nature, where some solid stats to back it up is lacking. As an eye-witness I conclude quite the contrary, and that is my last word for now. Wilander has said many times this year that Federer of Spring 2012 is a better player than the 2004 even.
Some 5 hours to go, are they scheduled for 2pm London time?
|Jul-08-12|| ||shivasuri4: <achieve>, earlier as in the years 2005-07. Never mind though, neither of us will convince the other.|
Another 6 hours and 15 minutes to go. Yes, it's 1400 London time.
|Jul-08-12|| ||achieve: I do hpe that they have the roof closed already, as it is pooring rain here for many hours and its headed in a direct line to London. Pretty sure they will start indoors, and later in the day perhaps a few bright spots.... The noise inside will be tremendous.|
|Jul-08-12|| ||achieve: Murray a break up, tension already... andy is on fire|
|Jul-08-12|| ||Jim Bartle: 3-4 Federer. Murray is playing great.|
|Jul-08-12|| ||Shams: Now the match is drifting in a direction I expected-- Andy having to work extremely hard to survive his service games, but Federer holding serve with ease. 4-4 all.|
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