< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 10 OF 10 ·
|Jan-11-09|| ||blacksburg: from the batgirl page -
"While in London, <Greco developed an idea to record entire games> rather than positions for study and inclusion in his manuscripts. He returned to Paris in 1624 where he rewrote his manuscript collection to reflect his new ideas. He then went to Spain and played at the court of Philip IV. There he beat his mentor and the strongest player of the time (other than himself), don Mariano Morano."
is it not strange that we have no recorded greco games, yet he developed an idea to record entire games?
for example, why would greco not publish one or two of his games with the esteemed don Mariano Morano? (these people have cool freakin names, btw)
it just seems strange that we have so many of his "fake" games, and none against real people, while earlier players Ruy Lopez, Lucena, da Cutri, have only very few presumably "real" games, but no "fake" ones.
hmmm, i wonder, when Greco presented his manuscripts to his various benefactors, did he present them as real games against real people, or as manufactured tactical examples?
once again, karpova comes through with an informative and entertaining link.
|Jan-11-09|| ||blacksburg: maybe i'm ignoring the significance of the 400 year time difference between then and now, i don't know. they didn't even have cell phones then.|
|Jan-11-09|| ||Karpova: <blacksburg: maybe i'm ignoring the significance of the 400 year time difference between then and now, i don't know.>|
That's most likely the case. It's almost impossible to compare the chess scene of that time with today's so I'd be reluctant to criticise Greco. Just on a sidenote, Greco beat the best players while people were watching and if anybody still doubted his chess skills he could have beaten him easily also.
|Jan-11-09|| ||blacksburg: "Salvio wrote that Leonardo lost his first two games, and when King Philip was leaving, thinking this wasn't going to be much of a competition, Leonardo begged him to stay and told that him he lost those 2 games on purpose to better display his skill by positioning himself where he had no option but to win the next 3 games (and presumably the match) and, that if he didn't win all three, he'd forfeit his life. Philip II had offered 1,000 scudi bonus to the winner of three consecutive games. He won all three games in a fitting revenge for what he considered a humiliating defeat at Ruy Lopez's hands years before. Philip II was so taken by Leonardo's courage and panache that he not only gave him the money, but also a golden salamader encrusted with jewels, a sable coat and exempted the town of Cutro from taxes for 20 years."|
heh heh that batgirl website is awesome
|Jan-21-09|| ||Phantom.Nightmare: Quite funny that recorded in the database Greco scores 100%, though his games were against people who are hardly known.|
|Mar-16-09|| ||WhiteRook48: what do we find out?|
|Mar-16-09|| ||WhiteRook48: all his games are against NN!|
|Mar-28-09|| ||Dredge Rivers: Little known fact:
He and Roman Polanski invented Greco-Roman wrestling! :)
|Jun-24-09|| ||kingscrusher: Excuse me "BatGirl" (SBC)- can you explain this comment a little bit more - I am intrigued:|
"While searching I came across a funny bit of nonsense worth mentioning. This site, http://www.chesscorner.com/tutorial... , asserts that "The Giuoco Piano is named after an Italian chess player called Gioachino Greco who lived in the 17th century.""
Does not Gioachino relate to "Giuoco" !
Does anyone know for sure if Chesscorner is right or wrong about this. I'm currently studying Greco and doing some youtube videos of his games at youtube.com/kingscrusher and am currently interested in his impact.
|Jun-24-09|| ||JonathanJ: giuoco means "game" in italian. giuoco piano means "quiet game".|
|Jun-24-09|| ||kingscrusher: Yeah, but it would have been very easy for FIDE to rename it from Giuoco Piano to something else - e.g. people that Analysed it.
Here is an analogous precedent to consider:
was originally called the "Greco Counter Gambit".
Maybe it was left as Giuoco Piano in respect of Greco's first name - i.e. his first name "Gioachino". They sound the same. Also maybe also because they already zapped his Greco Counter Gambit - and left him with a rather poxy variation called the "Greco defence" - 1.e4 e4 2.Nf3 Qf6, than more respect was deserving of Greco and the Italians in general for their influence in the evolution of chess ?!
The Greco Counter Gambit was later renamed by Fide to be the "Latvian Gambit" because of a lot of later analysis done it by Latvian players.
|Aug-06-09|| ||Dredge Rivers: <kingscrusher> What's to analyse with the Latvian Gambit? It's garbage, end of story!|
|Sep-21-09|| ||Karpova: In C.N. 6320 Jeremy Silman wrote to Edward Winter in order to express his admiration for Greco. It's a long Chess Note with some annotations also, so it's definitely worth checking out.|
Here are some remarks:
Jeremy Silman: <There are many games which show Greco toying with his hopelessly over-matched opponents, and one gains the impression that he was a master of tactics and of open games, and that he was so far beyond other players of his time that it was, in effect, a case of a grandmaster versus players rated between 1000 and 1800. Once in a while, Greco would face someone who could fight back, which allows us to see Greco’s positional skills. It is possible that some, or even all, of the games were fabricated, but even if they were inventions they still show a chess understanding centuries ahead of his time.>
<My impression is that Greco was further ahead of his contemporaries than any player who came after him. He was clearly of grandmaster strength at tactics, his openings were (for his time) cutting-edge, and his play in open positions was world-class. Yes, he took liberties which would not stand up against stronger opponents, but I think that he was well aware of his opponents’ failings and thus had little or nothing to worry about – he swung the bat freely in an effort to create classic mates and attacks that no doubt amused him.
He had solid positional skills too.>
|Sep-21-09|| ||Gypsy: I love how SBC, just in passing, drops profound comments on the nature of games:
<... modern chess proved to be more tactical, and therefore more strategical (as all tactics flow from good positions). ...>|
|Jun-05-10|| ||SU1989: I recently started reading an openings book by the Turkish author Umit Unkan. In his book he gives the following game between Greco and a certain Marconi:|
<White: Gioachino Greco, Black: Marconi. (Genoa, 1619) 1.e4 e6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Bd3 Nc6 4.Nf3 Be7 5.h4 0-0 6.e5 Nd5 7.Bxh7+ Kxh7 8.Ng5+ Kg8 9.Qh5 Bxg5 10.hxg5 f5 11.g6 and mate to follow>
Now, I am not sure if this game is in the database or not. However, considering that all Greco's opponents were NNs, I found it interesting that the name of this player was given in the book. Maybe not all Greco's games were composed?
|Jun-05-10|| ||Calli: <SU1989> The game is here: Greco vs NN, 1620 Unkan probably meant Mariano Morano but, as far as I know, none of Greco's opponents are identified.|
|Jun-05-10|| ||SU1989: <Calli> Thanks for the link to the game. <as far as I know, none of Greco's opponents are identified.> That's why I found it very interesting that Unkan has provided a name. I had suspected that the name "Marconi" is stereotypically Italian and thus could have been made up, but a simple "Greco-Marconi" search gives this: (I believe it is in Spanish)|
|Jul-14-10|| ||fm avari viraf: Greco Sir, Nescio Nomen is at your service always but pardon me of my Chess tactics!|
|Jan-14-11|| ||kevins55555: Gee, the NN opponent must be easy!|
|Aug-11-12|| ||torrefan: RIP master Greco. We were saddened by your untimely demise.|
|Aug-11-12|| ||Petrosianic: Yeah, none of us will ever forget that day.|
|Aug-11-12|| ||perfidious: NN certainly wasn't displeased to see him pass on, I'm sure. Had the two never met, there would be a mere 480 losses against NN's ledger.|
|Jan-27-13|| ||dumbgai: Born "around 1600" but has two games dated 1590. ?|
|May-27-13|| ||offramp: RIP master Greco.|
|May-27-13|| ||Fiona Macleod: He's dead already??|
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