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Kinghunt
Member since Oct-26-08 · Last seen Jul-24-15
Welcome to my forum. My forum is a place for open discussion of all issues, and is free from all forms of censorship. I only ask that you keep the discussion civil and refrain from personal attacks on other users. (Oh, and no trolls.)

_____________________________________________

Career supertournament wins by player
Updated 26 April, 2015

Karpov: 42
Kasparov: 38
Carlsen: 24
Kramnik: 23
Anand: 23
Topalov: 20
Ivanchuk: 15
Gelfand: 13
Aronian: 11
Caruana: 6
Karjakin: 5
Grischuk: 3
Nakamura: 2
Andreikin: 1

My definition of supertournament is quite broad: any closed international event with at least two players who have been in the top 10 in the last year constitutes a supertournament. Neither matches nor rapid/blitz events count as supertournaments, regardless of who is playing.

If there is a tie for first, it will be counted for all players involved unless the tournament used tiebreaks, in which case only the player they declared winner gets to count it. Please see posts below for details on the events considered but not counted for this list.

Also, for what it's worth, in case of a tie, the first player to reach X supertournament wins will remain listed higher.

>> Click here to see Kinghunt's game collections.

Chessgames.com Full Member

   Kinghunt has kibitzed 4517 times to chessgames   [more...]
   Jul-20-15 Wei Yi vs Svidler, 2015 (replies)
 
Kinghunt: Seems appropriate: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igx...
 
   Jun-22-15 Norway Chess (2015) (replies)
 
Kinghunt: <AylerKupp> I feel search depth is a poor way to measure how long it takes Stockfish to see something, due to Stockfish being optimized to prune aggressively and reach high depths very quickly without checking many of the branches. For example, my Stockfish found 21. g5 as ...
 
   Jun-22-15 Carlsen vs Nakamura, 2015 (replies)
 
Kinghunt: I would certainly lose this against Carlsen, but I think Nakamura's technique is sufficient to hold.
 
   Jun-21-15 Magnus Carlsen (replies)
 
Kinghunt: I could see Carlsen feeling something like this right now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEu... Austin Powers got his back, I'm sure Carlsen will too.
 
   Jun-18-15 Carlsen vs A Giri, 2015 (replies)
 
Kinghunt: Bxe3 may be best, but black is still in an awful lot of trouble after that. I imagine Giri is checking all other plausible candidates to try and find a less painful continuation.
 
   Jun-16-15 Carlsen vs Topalov, 2015 (replies)
 
Kinghunt: <WannaBe> What do you call Topalov's result here, if not luck? Had Carlsen left his hotel room five minutes earlier, he would have been reminded that there was no extra time after move 60, and the game would have ended 1-0.
 
   Jun-16-15 Norway Chess (Blitz) (2015) (replies)
 
Kinghunt: It means the old saying is true - anything can happen in blitz!
 
   Jun-07-15 Tal - Botvinnik World Championship Return Match (1961) (replies)
 
Kinghunt: Did Botvinnik really have the nickname "Iron Mike"?
 
   Jun-05-15 FIDE Grand Prix Khanty-Mansiysk (2015) (replies)
 
Kinghunt: FIDE should ideally average live ratings over the course of the year, after each game. Barring that, they should at least weight the average by number of games played in the previous month. If you don't play in a given month, that month shouldn't affect your average rating for the ...
 
   Jun-04-15 Hikaru Nakamura (replies)
 
Kinghunt: <keypusher> A lot of it is a question of scale. None of the graphs go back before 2000, and the old guys were all already 2700+ by then, so their charts have a y axis from about 2700-2800, compared to 2100-2800 for a lot of the younger players, making small changes in rating ...
 
(replies) indicates a reply to the comment.

Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 33 OF 33 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Feb-11-15  Olavi: <EeEk & Nf8>

Thank you. The Soviet championships were included following the example of our host <Kinghunt>, who did the same with Kasparov.

Reykjavik 91 was an oversight, and yes it seems Biel 90 counts, and Wijk aan Zee 93 of course was KO.

Feb-11-15  Olavi: And so Waddinxveen 1979 will have to be included as well. There may be others.
Feb-11-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  Kinghunt: Updated supertournament victories of Grischuk:

Petrosian Memorial 2014
Linares 2009
Elisa FIDE GP 2008 (shared)

(Thanks EeEk!)

Feb-11-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  Kinghunt: I have decided not to change my definition of supertournaments. This means that Soviet/Russian championships will remain ineligible, despite the great strength of several of these events. However, I do hope to keep these events tallied so that if somebody else wants to count them, they can easily find the collected data.

Updated supertournament wins of Garry Kasparov:

Bugojno 1982
Moscow 1982
Nikšić 1983
Brussels 1986
Brussels 1987 (shared)
Amsterdam 1988
Belfort 1988
Reykjavík 1988
Barcelona 1989 (shared)
Skellefteĺ 1989 (shared)
Tilburg 1989, 1991, 1997
Belgrade 1989
Linares 1990, 1992, 1993, 1997, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002 and 2005 Novgorod 1994, 1995, 1997 Amsterdam 1994
Horgen 1994
Riga 1995
Las Palmas 1996
Amsterdam 1996
Wijk aan Zee 1999, 2000, 2001
Sarajevo 1999, 2000
Astana 2001
Dortmund 1992

Events excluded: Russian Superfinal 2004, Frunze 1981, Moscow 1988 (no international players)

Feb-12-15  Nf8: Some comments/corrections to other lists:

<Anand>

Note sure if Dortmund 04 should be counted; its format included knockout & non-classical games (it was identical with that of the 2002 "Candidates" event, from which Leko qualified to the match with Kramnik)

<Ivanchuk>

Novgorod 94 (shared with Kasparov) & Donner Memorial 96 are missing

<Gelfand>

Missing - Belgrade 91, Alekhine Memorial 92 (shared with Anand), Wijk aan Zee 92 (which you excluded - but Salov was a top-10 player; http://www.olimpbase.org/Elo/Elo199...)

On the other hand, Malmo 99 shouldn't be counted (insufficient strength)

Feb-12-15  Nf8: Also, you seem to have missed Bilbao Masters (2013) for Aronian (of the participants there, Mamedyarov was top-10 in previous moths of 2013).
Feb-16-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  Kinghunt: <AylerKupp> I very much enjoy reading your posts, thank you for engaging in this discussion with me!

I agree that the paper is not 100% convincing, and does not definitively settle this question. However, we seem to have different standards for what constitutes reasonable doubt. For example, you have concerns about how styles from different time periods may be evaluated differently by computers, while I do not see any reason to hypothesize such an idea (after all, aren't good moves good moves?) - but I also can't show that it isn't true.

I think all of your proposed improvements on the study are excellent and would indeed increase confidence in the results. At this point, I think we're simply discussing exactly how much confidence to place in these studies.

In my mind, this is implicitly a relative question - of computer-based studies, which have the best controls and should be trusted the most of these computer-based studies. Here, at the very least, I think we can agree that the work by Dr. Reagan is currently the best in the field, even if we disagree about how seriously even it should be taken.

Feb-18-15  sinusitis: So you are excluding the FIDE knockout world championships because some of the matches ended in rapid games, but you include Carlsen's recent blitz win over Naiditsch?

Now what will you do bout the Zurich tournament in case Anand or Nakamura win after the rapids tomorrow?

Also, did you include the Dortmund tournament(s) in which a computer participated?

I think this is a great venture, but there are too many types of tournaments to make it easy to compare apples to apples.

The FIDE world championships should without a doubt be included as they were far more prestigious then any of these supertournaments, and in most cases results were due to the classical games (at least in the semis and finals).

Feb-18-15  sinusitis: Also please add Nakamura's Gibraltar win.
Feb-19-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  Kinghunt: <sinusitis: So you are excluding the FIDE knockout world championships because some of the matches ended in rapid games, but you include Carlsen's recent blitz win over Naiditsch?>

Two things. First, this is a difference between a single playoff and events determined almost entirely by playoffs - a strong player lacking in rapid/blitz skills could easily win a tournament like Baden-Baden, but would find it near impossible to win a world cup. Second, and more importantly, I am not including KO events primarily because they are better described as a series of matches, rather than a tournament. It doesn't matter if they're all decided in classical games, because advancing just means you won your match. Counting total match victories would be an excellent different project for somebody to take on, though!

<Now what will you do bout the Zurich tournament in case Anand or Nakamura win after the rapids tomorrow?>

Whoever the tournament organizers declare the ultimate winner will get the tournament victory here. If Nakamura ends up triumphing, while it might seem strange to give him credit, I do not think it would be any stranger than some of the Bilbao-style scoring results (for example, Biel Chess Festival (2012), where Carlsen finished on +4 and Wang Hao finished on +3, but because of the scoring rules in place, Wang Hao was awarded tournament victory).

<Also, did you include the Dortmund tournament(s) in which a computer participated?>

As far as I know, the only Dortmund event with a computer was in 2000, which I am crediting to Kramnik.

<Also please add Nakamura's Gibraltar win.>

Please read the definition of a supertournament I am using. Opens are not included, for a number of reasons, chief among them being that even when there are many strong players participating, they are infrequently paired. For example, only 4 of Nakamura's 10 games were against top 100 players. I think this supports my decision not to count even very strong opens as supertournaments.

Feb-19-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  Kinghunt: Career supertournament victories of Anatoly Karpov

Alekhine mem 1971
San Antonio 1972
Interzonal 1973
Madrid 1973
Portoroz/Ljubljana 1975
Milan 1975
Las Palmas 1977
Tilburg 1977
Bugojno 1978
Montreal 1979
Tilburg 1979
Waddinxveen 1979
Bad Kissingen 1980
Bugojno 1980
Amsterdam 1980
Tilburg 1980
Linares 1981
Moscow 1981
London 1982
Turin 1982
Tilburg 1982
Tilburg 1983
London 1984
Oslo 1984
Amsterdam 1985
Brussels 1986
Bugojno 1986
Amsterdam 1987
Bilbao 1987
Wijk aan Zee 1988
Brussels 1988
Tilburg 1988
Skelleftea 1989
Reggio Emilia 1991
Reykjavik 1991
Madrid 1992
Biel 1992
Dortmund 1993
Linares 1994
Dos Hermanas 1995
Groningen 1995
Vienna 1996

Events excluded: Tilburg 1994, Wijk aan Zee 1993 (KO-style events), Soviet ch 1976, Soviet ch 1983, Soviet ch 1988 (no international players)

(Huge thanks to <Olavi>, as well as <Eeek> and <Nf8>)

Feb-19-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  Kinghunt: Correction: Magnus Carlsen won Baden-baden 2015, not Zurich 2015, which is currently ongoing (thanks Nf8!)

Career supertournament wins of Carlsen:
Wijk aan Zee 2008, 2010, 2013, 2015
Baku 2008
Aerosvit 2008
Nanjing 2009, 2010
London 2009, 2010, 2012
Bazna 2010, 2011
Biel 2011
Bilbao 2011, 2012
Tal Memorial 2011, 2012
Candidates 2013
Sinquefield Cup 2013
Zurich 2014
Gashimov Memorial 2014
Baden-Baden 2015

Events excluded: Biel 2007 (insufficient strength)

Feb-19-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  Kinghunt: Tournament added: Bilbao 2013, won by Levon Aronian (thanks Nf8!)

Career supertournament wins of Levon Aronian:
Linares 2006
Wijk an Zee 2007, 2008, 2012
Sochi 2008
Nalchik 2009
Bilbao 2009 , 2013
Tal Memorial 2010
Alekhine 2013
Wijk an Zee 2014

Events excluded: Tal Memorial 2006, 2011 (lost both on tiebreak)

Feb-19-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  Kinghunt: <Nf8: Note sure if Dortmund 04 should be counted; its format included knockout & non-classical games (it was identical with that of the 2002 "Candidates" event, from which Leko qualified to the match with Kramnik)>

Thanks for pointing that out, that's a really tough one to make a call on. However, I think I will keep it included. Anand was the only one at +2 after the "normal" rounds, plus he won the playoff, so however you look at it, he was clear winner, and I don't think adding "extra" games at the end takes too much away. While trying to remain as consistent as possible, I think this is close to a tossup.

Feb-19-15  sinusitis: Haha...right after all these tie break arguments we got a controversy today when the Zurich organizers changed the original tie break rule towards the end of the tournament and decided on a blitz armaggedon winner take all game.

http://www.chess.com/news/nakamura-...

Only in the chess world do you get this! Kasparov would have walked right out of the playing hall at this kind of disrespect.

Feb-24-15  Olavi: Re Karpov's tournament wins: as <Nf8> pointed out Biel 1990 meets the criteria. It was played in July, and of the other players Andersson was world number 11 on July first, but he was nr. 9 in January and nr. 8 in July 1989.
Feb-27-15  Lambda: This seems like a good place to post the results of a supertournament survey I've done, somewhat inspired by the one here, which looks back far further into history, at all the world champions and a few others, and also counts the total number of supertournaments competed in (between a player's first and last victory), to try to make figures over vastly varying rates of occurrence slightly more meaningful. (Several players start off winning them reliably then compete in many more with little success, I've extracted additional partial figures for them.)

I'm using a somewhat different definition, it needs to have four top 10 players (or at least three other than the player currently under consideration), and otherwise just needs to be classical, all play all, and not a training tournament. A tie is counted as half a win (or a third for a three-way tie). Chessmetrics was used until 2004, because it puts all the information in one place and makes things easy. A few irregularities: Alekhine is counted as winning Mannheim 1914, which he was leading when WWI brought it to a premature end, Rubinstein is counted as top 10 for Berlin 1918 despite being technically unrated because he clearly was at that level, and Fischer is counted as competing in the candidates tourney he pulled out of. (Would be nice to add maybe Ivanchuk, Topalov and Aronian, but modern players are more work.)

player time-period years wins/played win-rate (wins/played per year)

Steinitz 1870-1882 12 <3>/4 <75%> 0.25/0.333

Tarrasch 1885-1907 22 <6.33>/14 <45%> 0.288/0.636

Lasker 1895-1924 29 <8.5>/10 <85%> 0.293/0.345

Rubinstein 1907-1912 5 <4.5>/9 <50%> 0.9/1.8

Rubinstein 1907-1925 18 <6>/19 <32%> 0.333/1.056

Capablanca 1911-1936 25 <5.5>/13 <42%> 0.22/0.52

Alekhine 1914-1934 20 <8.33>/15 <56%> 0.417/0.75

Bogoljubow 1922-1928 6 <4.33>/11 <39%> 0.722/1.833

Euwe 1934-1934 0 <0.33>/1 <33%> N/A

Keres 1937-1952 15 <4.5>/12 <38%> 0.3/0.8

Keres 1937-1962 25 <5.0>/25 <20%> 0.2/1

Reshevsky 1937-1937 0 <1.33>/3 <44%> N/A

Botvinnik 1935-1956 21 <7.5>/14 <54%> 0.357/0.666

Bronstein 1948-1955 7 <2.5>/6 <42%> 0.357/0.857

Smyslov 1949-1956 7 <3>/7 <43%> 0.429/1

Tal 1957-1961 4 <5>/6 <83%> 1.25/1.5

Tal 1957-1979 22 <5.5>/19 <29%> 0.25/0.864

Petrosian 1959-1976 17 <5>/18 <28%> 0.294/1.059

Spassky 1961-1983 22 <3.5>/17 <21%> 0.159/0.773

Fischer 1962-1970 8 <3>/5 <60%> 0.375/0.625

Korchnoi 1957-1973 16 <1.83>/15 <12%> 0.102/0.938

Karpov 1971-1986 15 <13.5>/23 <59%> 0.9/1.533

Karpov 1971-1989 18 <16.5>/30 <55%> 0.917/1.667

Karpov 1971-1996 25 <17.83>/41 <43%> 0.713/1.64

Kasparov 1982-2002 20 <25.5>/35 <73%> 1.275/1.75

Kasparov 1982-2005 23 <26>/38 <68%> 1.130/1.652

Anand 1991-2015 24 <15.83>/63 <25%> 0.660/2.625

Kramnik 1995-2014 19 <13.5>/55 <25%> 0.711/2.895

Carlsen 2008-2015 7 <12>/27 <44%> 1.171/3.857

Apr-26-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  Kinghunt: Event added: Gashimov Memorial 2015, won by Magnus Carlsen

Career supertournament wins of Carlsen:
Wijk aan Zee 2008, 2010, 2013, 2015
Baku 2008
Aerosvit 2008
Nanjing 2009, 2010
London 2009, 2010, 2012
Bazna 2010, 2011
Biel 2011
Bilbao 2011, 2012
Tal Memorial 2011, 2012
Candidates 2013
Sinquefield Cup 2013
Zurich 2014
Gashimov Memorial 2014, 2015
Baden-Baden 2015

Events excluded: Biel 2007 (insufficient strength)

With this, Carlsen moves to 24 career supertournament wins - ahead of Kramnik, Anand, and in fact all other active players! (Still significantly trailing Karpov and Kasparov, but well on pace to catch them before turning 30.)

Apr-27-15  sinusitis: So who are you giving the Zurich tournament to? Or maybe it should not be included due to the last minute change in tie break regulations.
Apr-27-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  Kinghunt: <sinusitis> Thank you for the reminder, I forgot to add the event. As for who gets credit, I stand by my decision just before the rapid games were played:

<Whoever the tournament organizers declare the ultimate winner will get the tournament victory here. If Nakamura ends up triumphing, while it might seem strange to give him credit, I do not think it would be any stranger than some of the Bilbao-style scoring results (for example, Biel Chess Festival (2012), where Carlsen finished on +4 and Wang Hao finished on +3, but because of the scoring rules in place, Wang Hao was awarded tournament victory).>

So plus one victory to Nakamura!

Apr-27-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  Kinghunt: Event added: Zurich 2015, won by Hikaru Nakamura

Career supertournament wins of Hikaru Nakamura:
Wijk an Zee 2011
Zurich 2015

Events excluded: Donostia 2009 (insufficient strength)

May-07-15  devere: <Kinghunt> It seems that many users (myself included) have now been excluded from posting on Wesley So's player forum, but you have not. If I were you, I'd be a bit insulted. LOL
May-09-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  Kinghunt: <devere> Haha. I'd like to think that most of my posts there, as unpopular as some of them are, are sufficiently fact-based to not warrant being labeled as trolling or unreasonable. You have my sympathies, though.
May-14-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  Tiggler: <kinghunt> and <daisuki>.

I came upon this site that offers Monte Carlo simulation of the Grand Prix:

https://chessnumbers.wordpress.com/...

Perhaps you are already aware of it.

May-20-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  Kinghunt: <Tiggler> Yes, that is a great site! It does its simulations in quite a similar way to how I ran mine for the Candidates, but with the added benefit of me not needing to do any of the work! I have been following its updates quite closely and am a big fan.
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