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zanzibar
Member since Feb-01-12
<<The wounds received in battle bestow honor, they do not take it away...> ― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote>

<<Every day my mind grows keener, my good arm stronger...> ― Ignatz>

<< The men of the New England States are proverbially cool and calculating, and generally may be classed as long-headed, and it from this stock that Pillsbury has sprung. >

The Games in the St. Petersburg Tournament, 1895-96 ... edited by J. Mason, W. H. K. Pollock>

Oh yes, sometimes I post more chess stuff here:

https://zanchess.wordpress.com/

>> Click here to see zanzibar's game collections.

Chessgames.com Full Member

   zanzibar has kibitzed 20207 times to chessgames   [more...]
   Nov-17-18 Kibitzer's Café (replies)
 
zanzibar: <soldal> putting those two versions together reminded me a bit of a 4th July from my past - when an AM radio station signed off with two versions of the Star Spangled Banner - one by Jimi Hendrix, and the other by Mormon Tabernacle Choir. Of course, there's also this ...
 
   Nov-17-18 chessgames.com chessforum (replies)
 
zanzibar: chessmetrics is back http://www.chessmetrics.com/cm/CM2/... .
 
   Nov-16-18 Carlsen vs Caruana, 2018 (replies)
 
zanzibar: <RT> right, I should have written it as "drawfest", with quotes.
 
   Nov-16-18 Kenneth S Rogoff (replies)
 
zanzibar: Have to agree with Summers on that one... If ever there was an issue that should garner bipartisan support, it's infrastructure.
 
   Nov-16-18 Carlsen - Caruana World Championship Match (2018) (replies)
 
zanzibar: This tweet by Ian Rogers explains his statement of "non-affiliation" at one of the recent press conferences: https://twitter.com/GMIanRogers/sta... .
 
   Nov-16-18 Kateryna Alexandrovna Lahno
 
zanzibar: <<JNC> Should CG consider changing the spelling?> yes.
 
   Nov-16-18 Rudolf Rezso Charousek (replies)
 
zanzibar: <sachistu> http://www.mhoai.org/wp-content/upl...
 
   Nov-15-18 Biographer Bistro (replies)
 
zanzibar: Great link/photo <sneaky pete>.
 
   Nov-15-18 Memorable Quotes chessforum
 
zanzibar: I think even better was this one just a little bit later, <"That ship has sailed."> -ibid
 
   Nov-15-18 Caruana vs Carlsen, 2018 (replies)
 
zanzibar: Video of the post-game interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gH... (Skip forward for Carlsen--Caruana section) Caruana is Mr. Steady, almost deadpan steady. But he represents himself well. Carlsen is relaxed and gets the best line of the interview off... <That ship has
 
(replies) indicates a reply to the comment.

Zounds!

Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 14 OF 14 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Oct-07-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  Tiggler: Here is a conundrum: had Pol won their round 11 match, and finished with 18 match points and the highest S-B, would they have nevertheless lost out on any medal because, for tiebreaking purposes, they only had 17 MP?
Oct-07-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  Tiggler: OK,sorry, scratch my last post, because they would still have had 18 MP, and would have won Gold.
Oct-08-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  zanzibar: <Tiggler> once I get the tiebreak procedure correct, those kinds of hypotheticals would be trivial to do...

* * * * *

OK, I followed the suggestion you made to modify tb1 for the teams that won by default. It's clear that C-R is using this procedure for tb1', tb3, tb4 - though I had to finesse by hand the dropouts, and haven't gotten it all into code correctly, at least just yet.

Not sure I really like, or truly understand, the implications of this tiebreak methodology. But it does suggests that actually spending the time to code it up right might just end up agreeing with the tb2 calculations. And for that I owe you a big thanks for both your help and patience/tenacity - since the primary goal was reproducing the C-R results, which at this point no longer seems quite so inaccessible.

.

Oct-08-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  Tiggler: <z> I am glad we are able to do some teamwork, if that is how you see it. I agree that if the C-R results are duplicated, we are done. I still suspect we will find that C-R is doing something not supported by the English of the regulations. Then we will have to figure out what they are doing and, maybe, why.

Such as: dropping the team against whom the game points were lowest for the particular round played by the opposing team in question, instead of for whom they were themselves lowest (that sounds very garbled, I know). If the Russian organizers of the Kanty-Mas Olympiad (2010), where these rules were first used, went one way then C-R would be under pressure to follow their interpretation. Not by using their code though, I imagine. C-R is in the business of providing services to tournament organizers, so they cannot afford to get crossways with such important clients as the Russian Chess Federation or the FIDE bureaucracy.

Oct-09-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  zanzibar: OK, I've managed to completely reproduce *all* the tie-break scores on <Chess-Results>.

Not sure I should publish it though, at least until the product placement contract with Bayer Aspirin gets signed.

Oct-09-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  Tiggler: <z> Congratulations. Take your time, but eventually I'd like to see your z-chess blog where you explain it all. Also, you ought to report back to the cg.com Olympiad page where we started this discussion. Glad we took it off that thread in the interim.
Oct-10-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  zanzibar: <Tiggler> did you do the tiebreak calculations for these teams:

SOM, BDI, CGO, RWA ,CIV, NGR and MDV, TOG

in addition to SCO and POR?

There're the ones with the most "funny" business.

Also, on the off-chance, do you know any Olympiads where a team defaulted during the middle of the tournament?

.

Oct-10-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  Tiggler: No I did not, but those are the ones who defaulted in round one are they not? For them, but only for them I think, you have to invoke the last part of the mysterious rules that involve "virtual opponents". Is that your understanding?

Regarding previous Olympiads, no I don't, but if there is a solution for the current one, I was going to suggest trying it on old ones since 2010. I believe the data for some of them at least are still available at C-R.

Oct-11-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  zanzibar: <Tiggler> yes, those teams either defaulted, or played a defaulting team.

I guess I should also have added QAT, KUW.

There is some funny business between the R1 paired vs unpaired defaults which I think is bizarre, if I understand it correctly. It would be nice to have an independent confirmation on these calculations, in particular.

I guess at this point redoing the 2016 Olympiad would be a good test. It takes a lot of setup time to generate the team match stubs.

.

Oct-11-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  Tiggler: 2016 was interesting because in the last round Azerbaijan lost out to the USA in a similar way to how USA lost out to China this year. I think the round ten listings of the S-B scores were somehow misleading in each case.
Oct-12-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  zanzibar: RE: Baku OLM 2016

On the right track:

<

>>> OLM.TB = TB
>>> TL.sort( TB_sort )
>>> for i in TL[:10]: print TB[i]

USA 20 20 413.5 31.5 152
UKR 20 20 404.5 31 153
RUS 18 18 419 32 151
IND 16 16 354.5 27.5 159
NOR 16 16 344.5 26.5 147
TUR 16 16 341.5 30 135
POL 16 16 331 29.5 132
FRA 16 16 330 30 132
ENG 16 16 323 26.5 144
PER 16 16 306 26.5 139

>

India and France are off, but not by much.

http://chess-results.com/tnr232875....

The setup was a big PIA, as FIDE listings omitted many players, and TWIC seems to need tweaking, just like the official PGN does too.

Oct-12-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  zanzibar: OK, again had to get the paired defaults done correctly:

<

USA 20 20 413.5 31.5 152
UKR 20 20 404.5 31 153
RUS 18 18 419 32 151
IND 16 16 350.5 27.5 158
NOR 16 16 344.5 26.5 147
TUR 16 16 341.5 30 135
POL 16 16 331 29.5 132
FRA 16 16 326.5 30 131
ENG 16 16 323 26.5 144
PER 16 16 306 26.5 139

>

It's a bit late tonight, maybe tomorrow I'll compare all the tiebreaks, and not just the top-10.

Oct-12-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  zanzibar: I remember this cryptic post:

chessgames.com chessforum (kibitz #29477)

Now we know the back story:

<<CG> That was a bit of fudging on Dan's part especially since he had cut Sargon's monthly pay in <half> at the time. Dan was basically trying to cover for that decision.>

Susan Freeman chessforum (kibitz #108)

Oct-12-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  zanzibar: Susan Freeman chessforum (kibitz #110)
Oct-13-18  Z truth: Here's another deleted post of mine, this time from <Memorable Quotes>

<<<SF> What is the ACTUAL point diceman?>

chessgames.com chessforum (kibitz #31071)

We all wonder this about <diceman>, from time to time.

<<>>>

(Roughly reconstructed from memory)

Now the irony here is both the truth of the observation, but also that the style fits so well with <diceman>'s MO itself.

.

Oct-19-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  TheAlchemist: <zanzibar> Hey, I have made my response in my own forum:

TheAlchemist chessforum (kibitz #3379)

Oct-19-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  zanzibar: Thanks, <TA>, left a couple of posts for you elsewhere.
Oct-19-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  Dr Winston OBoogie: That's a really nice thing you did for Daniel's mum, the photos on the webpage you posted in her forum :)

Keep your head up Zanzy. Don't let the pathetic trolls bully you.

Oct-19-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  zanzibar: <Winnie> I hardly notice the fleas in the circus most days. I only occasionally peek in on the non-sense.

So, rest assured, they're wasting their time far more than mine.

.

Oct-19-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  Dr Winston OBoogie: Good man. They're all on my ignore list but I only see Billy Gee (he's a nice fella) defending you and Jim, so I do see cross chatter. Personally I couldn't care less what they say about me anymore. Daniel's death just made me realise how ridiculous all of this is, there's just more important things to life than bickering with mindless morons on a website and our time on this planet could end anyday - no one's promised tomorrow. I just don't like to see what I perceive as bullying a nice fella, I thought Daniel's untimely death would have taught us all a lesson but nothing's changed with that lot. Nothing!

I just don't care if someone insults me anymore, I stick them on ignore and keep it moving. 🤷

Oct-26-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  zanzibar: <RE: Olympiads>

These are very hard to manage events, given the large number of games and players.

<TWIC> does a pretty good job of delivering usable PGN for the tournaments; more readily available/reliable than the PGN from the official sites in general.

I haven't studied the comparison of TWIC's PGN vs. Olimpbase, at least systematically.

<Has anybody else compared <TWIC> vs <Olimpbase>?>

The tiebreaks are completely owned by <Chess-Results>, aka <C-R>, afaik. The same can be said for recording team defaults/byes as well as individual board defaults/byes.

All the same, I've been able to tame 2018, 2016, and 2014 Olympiads, or almost do so. It's still a bit rough, as the tools are still evolving. Nonetheless, progress is being made, and the tiebreaks given by <C-R> have been *almost* duplicated.

Of course, it's infuriating to be so close, but still not be able to exactly replicate all the tiebreaks.

<E.g. can anybody explain why a team which is paired for R1, but defaults, and never plays a single game at an Olympiad, scores a tb4 of 65?>

I think my algorithms give 56 only, and even then the logic is a bit strained.

(There's a simple prediction by Gauss that gives 55, or even 66(!) - but how does 65 come about?!)

Oct-30-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  cormier: <zanzibar>: .. hi, have a great day sir ... i wanted to trick or threat the guys with let's say the little diagrams .... first thing is, i don't have any merits about them ...... i am a bit late for any halloween-funs, but nevertheless i hope the guys will obtain a little fun out of them, ths
Oct-31-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  zanzibar: <cormier> thanks for the wishes.

Would the little diagrams referred to have been similar to this good little puzzle?

(White to move after 0...Nd5-f4)


click for larger view

Anyways, thanks for the good wishes, and a good All Saints Day in return to you sir.

Oct-31-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  cormier: <<<<<ths <zanzibar>>, you too ...>

*for the diagrams* ....>

*i hope the guys will be interrested* .....>

*for a certain time to come !!!*****>

Nov-02-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  cormier: <zanzibar> ... it's more like the reverse of your example i think, ..... in your diagram, 1.BxNf4 is possibly winning big, and even if ...Bf5 black would loose if it is played in the place of ...Nf4, ths
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