< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 272 OF 272 ·
|May-19-16|| ||twinlark: <Boomie>
<The CIA considered Zarqawi to be a high level target. But Bush and company didn't want to tip off Hussein about the impending invasion.>
Makes you wonder why they didn't send in a delta squad to quietly off the guy one night, and avoid a costly and messy war.
<Next, the invasion itself created the kind of chaos that movements like IS thrive upon. How many lives were lost due to that bonehead invasion?>
If that's the case, why did Powell did provided all that "proof" of Iraqi WMDs? How was this relevant to Zarqawi?
<Finally, the decision to dismiss the entire Iraqi army led to a country full of soldiers in search of a job.>
Not just the Army but the entire Ba'athist bureaucracy. This Ba'athist structure became the Ba'athist insurgency, many of course joining various militant groups including ISIS, al Qaeda, al Nusra and the alphabet soup of competing insurgencies stoked by sectarian divide-and-rule tactics initiated by the occupation forces.
<They knew that Hussein and al-Qaeda were bitter enemies.>
<If he had known Zarqawi had a camp in Iraq, he would have sent his army after him.>
One of the strengths of the Hussein regime was that it was a secular government...the fate of secular governments in the Middle East has been an unfortunate set of events...Libya, Syria. Starts to look like a pattern.
<Yet the NSA contends that Hussein was in league with his enemies? Apparently, the NSA led by Rice was calling the shots. I keep sensing evidence that these guys are not very smart.>
Comes back to the "evidence" provided by Powell at the UN "proving" that Iraq had WMDs. They were smart enough to trump the CIA's intel as well as the intel of every other agency to conform with the desires of Rice, Bush and Cheney, ie to take Iraq and take out Saddam Hussein.
My impression is that the US actually achieved all of its goals...namely the destruction of an independent secular regime, seizure of its resources, destruction of its civil society, destruction of opposition to Israel and US imperial interests, and chaos on the borders of its other enemies Syria and Iran.
Since then Syria has been all but destroyed, as foreseen by almost everyone since 2005, while the official emphasis on the greatest existential dangers to the US has just shifted from ISIS to Russia, China and...Iran.
Look at the trail of bodies left since the fall of the Iron Curtain and especially since 9/11 - Yugoslavia in its various increasingly shrink-wrapped forms, Serbia, Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Yemen, Sudan, Libya, Ukraine.
What do all these countries have in common?
I find that a useful filter for understanding events is the geopolitical struggle between the US and independent governments around the world, the biggest of course being the BRICS countries and Iran. Brazil has just fallen, India is virtually ungovernable, Russia and Iran are under sanctions, and South Africa is paralysed politically, years after agreeing to ditch its socialist agenda and retain the infrastructure that served the apartheid regime and its western clients so well.
|May-19-16|| ||Boomie: <twinlark>
<If that's the case, why did Powell did provided all that "proof" of Iraqi WMDs? How was this relevant to Zarqawi?>
Frontline interviewed Powell. The CIA had edited the UN speech to conform with what they knew about the situation. None of their edits survived. Zarqawi is mentioned many times in the speech. The White House was trying to connect Hussein with Zarqawi and Zarqawi with al-Qaeda. The CIA not only found no connection between Hussein and Zarqawi, they also knew that al-Qaeda had essentially disowned Zarqawi. Zarqawi wanted to incite a civil war between Sunnis and Shiites. al-Qaeda did not want any part of that.
|May-19-16|| ||twinlark: It doesn't make sense, the dots just don't connect.
- Zarqawi was supposed to be in northern Iraq
- he was a senior member of al Qaeda, the organisation created in Pakistan by Pakistan and the US using its asset Osama bin Laden
- bin Laden was blamed for 9/11 on the basis of no real evidence, otherwise the FBI would have had him on their wanted list for the crime
- nevertheless, the US invaded Afghanistan despite offers by the Taliban to hand bin Laden over if the US had any actual evidence, destroying the country and yet still failed to catch bin Laden
- for some reason, al Qaeda/bin Laden through Zarqawi was then linked to Saddam Hussein, again in the absence of evidence, especially given that al Qaeda had disowned Zarqawi and that Saddam and al Qaeda were bitter enemies
- Powell lied to the UN about evidence of WMDs in Iraq, with Blair's connivance with these lies with his own "sexed up" report
How does all this connect with the decision to invade Iraq? It reads as an incoherent set of lies.
If Iraq wasn't responsible for 9/11, had no WMDs as attested by Hans Blick, the Chief of the UN WMD inspections team (Iraq had destroyed all its WMDs in the years since Gulf War I), and had no truck with al Qaeda or Zarqawi, what was the US's actual reason for invading Iraq?
I don't see how Frontline's report actually throws any useful information on what happened. It seems to actually muddy the waters even further.
Why were Afghanistan and Iraq really invaded?
|May-19-16|| ||Boomie: <I don't see how Frontline's report actually throws any useful information on what happened. It seems to actually muddy the waters even further.|
Why were Afghanistan and Iraq really invaded?>
The report concerned the creation of ISIS. Zarqawi started ISIL which was specific to Iraq. I guess Frontline reviewed the invasion to show its effect on ISIL. The invasion essentially created ISIL. They wouldn't have got anywhere without it. I'm sure Frontline covered the invasion in a different segment.
The invasion of Afghanistan, on the other hand, made sense in the context of 9/11. Many of the hijackers trained there. Zarqawi also had a training base there.
Speaking of state sponsored terrorism, congress passed a bill to allow 9/11 victims to sue the Saudi government. It will probably not get much further as Obama promises a veto, but it does put the Saudis on notice that we are keeping an eye on them.
|May-20-16|| ||twinlark: Did Frontline talk about the financing and resources if ISIS? |
For it to grow it needed to recruit members and to attract major sponsorship.
|May-20-16|| ||Boomie: <twinlark: Did Frontline talk about the financing and resources if ISIS?>|
Not so much that I remember. That would be a rather large omission. Perhaps I just forgot the mention of financing. Most of their income seems to be made the old fashioned way, they steal it. The sale of stolen oil has brought in 10s of millions alone.
I just stumbled on a Wiki article specific to ISIL finances: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finan.... It lists various criminal activities and donations from the Saudis and foreign sympathizers. I suspect ISIS finances are similar. Different leader, different country but same folks.
The main Wiki on ISIL is enormous. Almost 800 footnotes...heh. It has a section on resources: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam...
|May-20-16|| ||visayanbraindoctor: A comment on <the financing and resources if ISIS?>|
Everything I have read and know indicates that the money trail mostly goes back to Sunni Islamist Arab Gulf States.
Some of the trails are hidden, Some are not. My half Pakistani uncle for example tells me that in the 1950s, Pakistan was a lot more secular than it is now. Then the government began to accept Saudi aid. Along with the aid came missionaries preaching Wahabbism in Pakistan's madrasas and mosques. All quite legal and open BTW. Now you see serious quasi Wahabbi movements in Pakistan that have triggered lots of the more recent sectarian violence.
It looks like the same story everywhere AFAIK. Madrasas and mosques controlled by Wahhabi or quasi Wahabbi Islamists are the main recruitment centers for jihadists and their mass base; and they're financed big time by oil money. I don't think this is any secret at all.
We can't expect the US government to seriously try to stop this system of mass base recruitment. US economy is tied to the petrodollar and its Gulf States allies.
|May-21-16|| ||Boomie: ->
Here's a link to the Frontline web site featuring the recent ISIS program: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/
I don't pay much attention to TV news. But the PBS programs seem to be the best of the lot. At least they try to do real journalism.
A search of "ISIS" on the Frontline site (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/?...) produces an astonishing 40,000 hits in Frontline pages. They have been all over that story.
Searching "Iraq invasion" (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/?... invasion) produced another bushel of hits.
|May-29-16|| ||visayanbraindoctor: <twinlark> Do you have access to facebook?|
|May-29-16|| ||twinlark: <visayanbraindoctor>|
Only that which is universally accessible. But I don't have an account nor have I ever logged in.
btw, sorry about the delay in my critique. A lot of our time is taken up with house hunting in the Canberra market, which is difficult at the moment but something which has become urgent for us.
|May-29-16|| ||twinlark: <visayanbraindoctor>|
No we want to move from renting to buying. Rents will be going up sharply soon.
|May-30-16|| ||visayanbraindoctor: Ah OK. I was thinking of something more disastrous. In one of the typhoons here, a doctor's house got destroyed and his mother swept into the sea; body never found.|
|May-30-16|| ||twinlark: omg, I'd forgotten how dangerous life can be in your part of the world, and in so many ways.|
Housing affordability is such that in Australia, 95% of all homes loans are now taken out by investors, both domestic and foreign.
The average owner-occupier loan, traditionally young couples, that used to be 100% of the market has almost disappeared as houses become increasing priced out of reach of the average punter.
Mainly due to houses becoming tax vehicles and investments instead of simply family homes, wildly inflating the house price.
Indigenous people here would be entitled to have an ironic belly laugh over the matter if they were so inclined, except that the whole economic mess cascades onto them disproportionately, as always, with continuous overt and economic dispossession of their lands and means occurring to meet the shortfalls created by economic greed.
|May-30-16|| ||visayanbraindoctor: <The average owner-occupier loan, traditionally young couples, that used to be 100% of the market has almost disappeared as houses become increasing priced out of reach of the average punter.>|
You mean the middle class is finding it harder to afford buying houses?
<sorry about the delay in my critique.>
Here's food for thought.
During the pre WW2 era, I have heard that there was practically no effective middle class in my country. You either owned land (mostly Spanish descendants) or a middleman businessman (mostly Chinese descendants) or were landless, legacy from the Spanish era. The advent of overseas workers was one of the causes for the rise of a middle class.
Much of my income in the second poorest region of my country derives from patients with overseas worker relatives who send them money from abroad. (Nurses, seamen, domestic helpers, construction workers, GROs or mail to order brides and girlfriends that have hooked a generous foreigner.)
If you ask people why they are so impoverished, they will answer it's because of the corruption of some government officials. No one even thinks of the huge amounts of money that the Capitol rakes in very year.
This is what I am referring to in Chapter 20. The Radio of the sci fi novel I wrote. <The Capitol rakes in 25 billion pesos each year from taxes coming in from the North and South Eastern Islands Provinces.>
That's just an estimate for taxes annually taken in by the Center from the island I live in. It does not count what it takes from other regions. It does not include the capital flight engineered by Capitol Based Corporations as they transfer profits from periphery to the Center. (90% of National Corporations have their HQ based in the Center, even if they gain their profits from the peripheries.) How the heck will a peripheral area progress economically if plunder in such a massive scale occurs <each year>?
No one thinks it's plunder of course, although the original Spanish conquistadores saw it as simple tribute. Nowadays it's called legal taxation and legitimate national corporation business. Why accept such an obvious economic shackle since the 16th century?
The psychological answer is in the same chapter.
<The brainwashing is based on the ‘We Are One Nation’ idea, and so never mind if Tunga City sucks in all the resources of the provinces; after all it is the Capitol of our One Nation.>
You'll see little bits of these juicy morsels on internal colonialism all over the story. I've written them down encrypted in the story line so that they don't look obvious. Otherwise the majority of my countrymen, conditioned into unthinking nationalism since birth by schools and the mass media, will brand me as a traitor. (",)
For more obvious literature written in essay form, you could take a look at the FB page I mentioned, and the links from it. I've begun to post on some of them. You'll be able to easily discern if I am the poster by the writing style.
|May-31-16|| ||twinlark: Thanks for the FB reference.|
|Jun-01-16|| ||visayanbraindoctor: <twinark> I've read it. Pretty personal. I hope you get your house 'fixed'.|
|Jun-01-16|| ||twinlark: As someone once said, the future ain't what it used to be.|
|Jun-01-16|| ||visayanbraindoctor: I was thinking, why not let your children read the sci fi novel I wrote? Annie says it resembles a 'young adult' novel.|
The themes in it are definitely not 'young adult' but superficially I agree it can pass off as one. Comments from your children might be helpful in improving it.
|Jun-01-16|| ||twinlark: I'll do that.|
|Jun-19-16|| ||perfidious: From elsewhere, a time ago:
<twinlark: The entire rationale for the invasion of Iraq was based on nothing but lies, and (PM) Blair had to have known that. Hopefully the movement to have him and others of his ilk like Australia's John Howard tried for war crimes comes to fruition. I''ll be popping a bottle of champers for when either of these appears in the dock at The Hague.>
Include Dubya and I am with you all the way, but am most emphatically not holding my breath awaiting that moment--I would sooner bet on the next Powerball here in USA coming good for any poster on CG.
|Jun-19-16|| ||perfidious: <twinlark: No we want to move from renting to buying. Rents will be going up sharply soon.>|
Best of luck, friend--I managed to beat the clock on buying Over Here last year, just before certain federal regulations were due to tighten the screws.
To own in this state and particularly this county is costly, but not so much as is renting: in this city, rents have risen 88 per cent since 2008. The new police chief was recently interviewed and noted that his younger officers can often not even afford to rent or buy in Burlington. At retirement or possibly before, I may leave again for cheaper climes.
As to <visayan>'s remarks regardong his novel, there is an ongoing mania in this state to tax, tax, then do it some more--their latest hobby horse is a tax on drinks containing sugar, though this is hardly original--Bloomberg of New Yawk made a splash with that manoeuvre a time ago.
|Jun-22-16|| ||twinlark: <perfidious>
<their latest hobby horse is a tax on drinks containing sugar>
The Greens here are suggesting this during the current election campaign to help deal with obesity, the savings going toward promoting healthy diets and habits.
|Jun-22-16|| ||perfidious: <twinlark....Indigenous people here would be entitled to have an ironic belly laugh over the matter if they were so inclined, except that the whole economic mess cascades onto them disproportionately, as always, with continuous overt and economic dispossession of their lands and means occurring to meet the shortfalls created by economic greed.>|
Plus ca change....
A friend moved to Las Vegas four years ago and had no trouble finding homes to buy in that severely depressed market which was only then beginning to recover from what had gone several years before; trouble was, he and his partner would make an offer and get the rug swept out from under them by companies which would counter by sweetening the deal with something extra, typically $25-40,000 more.
Can be tough to fight when the big money moves in on you.
|Jul-04-16|| ||perfidious: From <Karpova>'s forum (regrettably closed):|
<twinlark....I'll reiterate what my wife has told me on occasion, namely that you can learn from your enemies because they have no hesitation in pinpointing your weaknesses where your friends might hold back out of politeness.>
My compliments to your wife on an astute observation.
|Jul-21-16|| ||visayanbraindoctor: <twinlark>
Any opinion on what's happening in Turkey?
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