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twinlark
Member since Nov-17-05
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My wrap of our Chessgames Challenge: The World vs A Nickel, 2006 against ICCF Grandmaster Arno Nickel is at User: World Team Tribute.

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<The lyf so short, the craft so long to lerne.>

― Geoffrey Chaucer, The Parliament of Birds

>> Click here to see twinlark's game collections.

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   twinlark has kibitzed 17835 times to chessgames   [more...]
   Jan-13-17 twinlark chessforum (replies)
 
twinlark: Tillerson wants to block Chinese access to its artificial islands?? Who slipped the joy juice into his coffee?
 
   Nov-27-16 Fidel Castro (replies)
 
twinlark: A reminder to people who are dumping on the memory and their idea of Fidel Castro's legacy that Nelson Mandela considered a great ally and a good friend. Look at the condolence tweet below and open that link. That Nelson Mandela is revered throughout the world is without debate. ...
 
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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 327 OF 327 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Jan-15-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  saffuna: Fine. I only entered the argument after YOU put up a ludicrous comment.
Jan-15-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  Colonel Mortimer: <saffuna> CNN reported fake news, essentially a hit job against Trump. I don't like Trump, but I know propaganda when I see it.

Incredible that you should disagree with that, but then not so incredible given your propensity to post fake news, and only retract it when you are called out on the facts of the matter. (As happened on this very forum)

If you really aspire to objectivity, you have to stop getting caught up in the doofus ball game of liberals vs conservatives. It's not a binary world.

Jan-15-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  saffuna: I requested that you be factual and you be specific.

That apparently is too much for you.

CNN made a newsworthy, factual report. Period.

You know it, and that's why you can't provide any specifics to back up your argument.

Jan-15-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  Colonel Mortimer: <saffuna: CNN made a newsworthy, factual report. Period.>

Hardly. At best they reported hearsay based on unverified sources. Echo chamber journalism.

You know that, I know that..

<The allegations came, in part, from memos compiled by a former British intelligence operative, whose past work US intelligence officials consider credible>

CNN

This is the kind of reporting that led to the Iraq invasion blunder.

Jan-15-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  saffuna: CNN never reported the allegations compiled by the former British intelligence agent. It only said they were presented to Trump by the intelligence agencies.

That is true and factual.

Jan-15-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  saffuna: CNN never reported the allegations compiled by the former British intelligence agent. It only said they were presented to Trump by the intelligence agencies.

That is true and factual reporting.

Jan-15-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  TheFocus: <saffuna> Saying it twice doesn't make it so.
Jan-15-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  saffuna: <focus> I sure hope your chess research is more rigorous than your political research. If not, it will be a disaster. But I suspect in chess you look at sources, double check, make careful inferences, etc.

CNN reported that the intelligence agencies had given a briefing to Trump, and showed him a dossier of negative, unverified material which had been prepared by a former British intelligence officer.

CNN did not reveal the contents of the dossier, nor did it hint at the contents.

Later, Buzzfeed revealed the contents.

That is the truth of what happened. CNN's were jounalistically sound and proper.

Feel free to attempt to prove me wrong, but you won't be able to. (But please, use original sources, not rightwing blogs.)

Jan-15-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  chessmoron: <CNN did not reveal the contents of the dossier, nor did it hint at the contents.>

Actually CNN did. CNN claims that a credible by intelligence committee, MI6 agent, accused Trump that he was compromised by Russia agents.

What factual evidence does CNN have that Trump was compromised by Russia? NONE. Zilch.

Jan-15-17  visayanbraindoctor: Damage control by CNN.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTN...

As one commenter said: <What CNN did was basically "Report" on a very JUICY report about Donald Trump which, "While uncorraberated" "COULD BRING HIS PRESIDENCY TO IT'S KNEES" "If it is actually true.....Blah, Blah, B_llshit....CNN Pulled the World's Biggest "DON'T READ THIS REPORT" Clickbait in recent Political News....or NOT News if this report is.....true..... AND Then have the Fu_king Nerve to actually say.....oh, hey, It wasn't Us...cuz We Didn't ACTUALLY SHOW THE False Report to you...>

This is the same CNN guy that staged the fake Syrian Danny scandal. I saw that. This liar guy Anderson Cooper slandered the Syrian government and supported terrorist propaganda and got away with it. He should be in jail for doing that. When Syrians exposed it, Cooper just stopped holding interviews with fellow liar fake Danny, without admitting it was faked or apologizing.

Now everytime I see his face, I keep imagining it in a bowl of fake soup.

Jan-15-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  saffuna: Again, CNN acted with journalistic integrity on this story. No question at all.

They reported that intelligence agencies had briefed Trump on a dossier with unverified, negative information on him.

That is absolutely true and newsworthy.

CNN did not comment on the contents. It did send anybody to look at the contents because at that time the contents had not been made public.

Later, Buzzfeed released the contents. CNN had no control over that. In fact, Brian Stelter of CNN interviewed the boss of Buzzfeed and was highly critical of the decision to publish.

I suggest rightwingers, in fact everyone, inform themselves of the facts before posting on the story.

Jan-15-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  saffuna: If anybody thinks CNN acted unethically in any way:

Post the CNN video.

or

Post the CNN.com article.

One or the other.

Jan-15-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  saffuna: <Actually CNN did. CNN claims that a credible by intelligence committee, MI6 agent, accused Trump that he was compromised by Russia agents.>

CNN called the report "unverified."

I challenge <chessmoron> or anybody to show where CNN called the former British intelligence agent's report "credible."

Jan-15-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  chessmoron: <Jim> This assertion from CNN is enough for readers to think this "might" be true: "The allegations came, in part, from memos compiled by a former British intelligence operative, whose past work US intelligence officials consider credible."

Do you know that Richard Engel from NBC News actually trying to do investigative work on these salacious claims and found nothing credible?

Where are CNN investigators since October of last year trying to exactly that?

Jan-15-17  visayanbraindoctor: <saffuna: I suggest rightwingers..>

I am not a right winger, and neither are the Colonel or twinlark. You should know that if you read up on my posts on the nature of the state and on economics.

On the other hand, I see CNN and liar Cooper as proto-fascist elements in US society, lying to their audience in order to serve big corporate interests.

I hope you stop supporting their endeavor or doing apologetics for them. You might end up as a de facto proto fascist yourself, whether you are aware if it or not.

Maybe you don't see it yet. I believe you have good intentions, but you are supporting the wrong guys.

Jan-15-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  saffuna: Ok, I was wrong and I apologize for that. It was foolish on my part.

I do not know enough about Syria to judge CNN's coverage. It is certainly possible you are correct.

However CNN is 100% in the right on this Trump dossier story. All criticism should be directed at Buzzfeed.

Jan-15-17  visayanbraindoctor: <chessmoron: <Jim> This assertion from CNN is enough for readers to think this "might" be true: "The allegations came, in part, from memos compiled by a former British intelligence operative, whose past work US intelligence officials consider credible.">

What CNN did (and not only to Trump) is to insinuate a slanderous accusation but leave room for it to plausibly deny the slur. It's a form of propaganda that hides under the cover of legitimacy and legality. I've seen it dozens of times. Well-oiled mass media rumor mongerers have been doing it for a long time. I call it dragon lies.

Jan-15-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  saffuna: No. CNN presented real news. Journalism.
Jan-15-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  chessmoron: Actually both CNN and Buzzfeed did a great disservice to investigative journalism. I actually did not mind what Buzzfeed published. However Buzzfeed's reasoning to publishing it is quite disturbing.

Now we know that Harry Reid's letter to Comey on Russia-Trump link is from this salacious and unverified memos.

The FBI has already debunked these memos via NYT before the election which CNN report, that suggested Trump was compromised by Russia, were NEVER reported on.

Jan-15-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  Big Pawn: <What CNN did (and not only to Trump) is to insinuate a slanderous accusation but leave room for it to plausibly deny the slur. It's a form of propaganda that hides under the cover of legitimacy and legality. I've seen it dozens of times. Well-oiled mass media rumor mongerers have been doing it for a long time. I call it dragon lies.>

Well said!

Unfortunately, the brainwashing has been accomplished already by US media, and <saffuna> is a prime example of it. He would give his <LIFE> in defense of the lies.

I hope an outside perspective will help him overcome his blind partisan bias.

Jan-15-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  TheFocus: <saffuna: Again, CNN acted with journalistic integrity on this story. No question at all. They reported that intelligence agencies had briefed Trump on a dossier with unverified, negative information on him.

That is absolutely true and newsworthy.>

How would they know what was revealed in a classified intelligence meeting?

Does that mean that CNN is "not" acting ethically?

Because "classified" means no one at the meeting was supposed to tell.

So where did CNN get their information, and why would they reveal that classified information?

Not exactly journalistically ethical after all.

Jan-16-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  saffuna: <So where did CNN get their information, and why would they reveal that classified information?>

CNN revealed no classified information at all.

It revealed that the intelligence agencies had briefed Trump on classified information, which included information potentially damaging to Trump.

It got the information as a leak, from some confidential source, which is done all the time and is journalistically ethical. For example, the Pentagon Papers were a leak. The Wikileaks DNC/Podesta emails were from a confidential. That didn't bother you at all, as I remember. (Wikileaks, not the Pentagon Papers.)

It appears you simply don't like information damaging to Trump to reach the public.

<How would they know what was revealed in a classified intelligence meeting?>

They knew it included information negative to Trump, unverified information as they reported. That itself is not classified information.

I don't know about the other cases <visayanbraindoctor> mentions, but on this case CNN is 100% in the clear.

Jan-16-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  chessmoron: <Jim> Leaks on Podesta/DNC and Pentagon Papers were verified to be true.

When FBI already debunked the memos before the election and CNN still trying to asserts that there's some truth on these memos (see how CNN reports frame the MI6 is credible to US intelligence), that tells me that CNN doesn't care about truth. They are only advancing their own agenda to keep that Russia-Trump link alive.

Jan-16-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  saffuna: I am only discussing the current CNN story that the intelligence agencies briefed Trump about the negative, unverified dossier about him.

As far as I know, nobody has questioned that the agencies did in fact brief Trump and the negative dossier does exist. <What CNN reported is true.>

Now as far as the Pentgon Papers and the Podesta emails are concerned, nobody knew whether they were true at the moment they were released, did they? It was afterward--as was the only way--that they were verified.

Jan-16-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  saffuna: Here is the statement by Director of National Intelligence James Clapper. He criticizes the leak but specifically confirms that the dossier exists and that he discussed it with Trump. Also he does NOT deny that the aencies briefed Trump on its contents earlier.

https://www.dni.gov/index.php/newsr...

Neither at his press conference nor elsewhere has Trump ever claimed the dossier does not exist or that he was not briefed on it. He simply says the contents of the dossier (which CNN did not reveal) are false.

So CNN's report has been confirmed as true by any reasonable standard.

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