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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 16 OF 16 ·
Later Kibitzing > |
| Mar-08-08 |
| mistreaver: He was not only great tactician he is home- analyzing wizard. Kasparov indicates that Geller helped him prepare line he used in 10th game of his Anand 1995 match. |
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| Mar-08-08 |
| MichAdams: Are you sure? According to Kasparov, he only briefly worked with Geller before his WC match with Short. Are you confusing him with Tal who is generally given credit for the novelty in the 10th game? |
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| Mar-08-08 |
| mistreaver: Hmm yes i mixed those matches Geller helped him to prepare Ruy Lopez for Short match thx for correction |
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Mar-08-08
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| Knight13: This guy rocks. Happy Birthday, GELLER!
<died Nov-17-1998> WTH that's the day I got beat up by those 7 bullies and ended up in a trash can!! And then I screwed them over by stealing their backpack one by one and threw all of their stuff in the river. Screw this info, man, brings back annoying memories! |
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| Mar-08-08 |
| xrt999: Geller has a unique style of leaving most of the pieces on the board, and refusing pawn trades; if his opponent advanced a pawn into a capture position Geller would either leave it, or advance HIS pawn away from capture. By move 30 it would not suprise me to see all 16 pawns on the board, and most minor pieces intact.
This would often lead to quite complex and beautiful positions with many intricate lines and variations. In my opinion the most beautiful game ever played: the end position is so complex and compelling, almost all of Geller's pieces are attacking while simultaneously being attacked. Geller's attack is subtle yet powerful; his defense hangs by a string yet his position is unassailable; his king has no legal squares to move to yet cannot be attacked. Fischer vs Geller, 1967 |
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| Mar-08-08 |
| Cibator: The record for most wins in games against world champions (past, present or future) is actually held by Paul Keres, with nine - Capablanca, Alekhine, Euwe, Botvinnik, Smyslov, Tal, Petrosian, Spassky and Fischer. He also had an even score (2 draws) against Karpov. |
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Mar-08-08
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| brankat: <MichAdams> <According to Kasparov, he only briefly worked with Geller before his WC match with Short. Are you confusing him with Tal who is generally given credit for the novelty in the 10th game?> Tal died in 1992. Unless the novelty used in the 10th game was kept secret for 3 years, then it must have been someone other than M.Tal. Btw, and I don't quite remember this, didn't Geller work as one of Karpov's seconds/analysts sometime in the '80s, during the KK matches? |
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| Mar-08-08 |
| MichAdams: <The evil that men do lives after them; the good is oft interred with their bones.> With chess players, it's usually the reverse. I'm hazy on the details, but I believe Tal conceived of the novelty back during his time working with Karpov, whose second he was for the 1981 WC match with Korchnoi. As for Geller, I can't specifically recall him working with Karpov. He did attend the 1990 WC match, though, in regard to a book he was co-authoring with Lein and Chepizhny. |
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Mar-09-08
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| brankat: <MichAdams> Thank You for the info. I had completely forgotten about Tal working with Karpov in '81. |
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Mar-09-08
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| TheAlchemist: I have read that Geller worked in Karpov's team in the 80's along with Mikhalchishin, I. Zaitsev, Makarichev and Balashov. |
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| Mar-09-08 |
| MichAdams: Not forgetting Evgeny Vladimirov.
In the 90s, Karpov's team included Podgaets, Epishin and Henley. If memory serves, Ian Rogers may have worked as a second. |
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| Mar-17-08 |
| xrt999: < Cibator: The record for most wins in games against world champions (past, present or future) is actually held by Paul Keres,> Geller had PLUS scores against five world champions, which I think is a record. Of note is a resounding +4 -1 =7 owning of Botvinnik. Also, his lifetime record against Tal is a tie! So, he had plus scores against 5 WC's and tie against one WC. Keres on the contrary was owned by Botvinnik +9 -3 =9. Keres had a winning records against Tal, though, while Geller as mentioned tied. Although Keres had a narrow plus score against Geller, Geller had a plus score against Fischer, and Keres did not. Geller had a 59% winning record, Keres had a 70% record, but Geller played many more games well into his 70's, while Keres died at the young age of 58. Geller and Keres both had similar narrow losing records against Spassky. Keres never beat Karpov, yet Geller did, overall +1 -2 =6 against Karpov, Keres drew their 2 games overall. Geller drew 3 games and lost 1 game against Kasparov, Keres never played Kasparov. They are both great players. Based on my analysis I think Geller is the better player. |
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| Mar-18-08 |
| MichAdams: Based on your analysis, I vote Keres. |
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Mar-18-08
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| Gypsy: Keres is the only chess-player with a positive score against Capablanca (from more than a single game). |
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| Mar-23-08 |
| xrt999: lol... |
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Mar-23-08
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| timhortons: maybe morozovich is a modern day geller, though geller never become a world champ but he upset anybody on his way, moro likewise could upset anybody and unpredictable:) |
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| Mar-25-08 |
| xrt999: In 1970 Geller was rated, what, 4th in the world, ahead of Keres? He is one of the top players who ever lived.
If there was no Spassky, would it have been possibly Fischer-Geller in 1972? |
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| Mar-25-08 |
| Petrosianic: Not likely. Geller was in the 1971 Candidates, and he lost to Korchnoi handily. Geller is one of the most underrated players of all time, easily belonging on everyone's list of best players to never be champion. But he hit The Big 4-0 in 1965. 1972 was a bit past his window of opportunity to be world champion. Chessmetrics has him rated #10 in January 1970.
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| Mar-25-08 |
| xrt999: Geller peaked in 1963; he was rated #2 in the world from May through June. He tied for second with Keres in the 1962 cadidates at Curacao, in a bid to play Botvinnik for the world title in 1963. Petrosian won said candidates in 1962 and went on to defeat Botvinnik and became world champion in 1963. (To disprove your point regarding his age, Geller was #4 in the world in November 1975, and #5 in December 1975 at the age of 50.) |
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Mar-25-08
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| brankat: If Geller had won '63 Candidates he would have had an excellent chance to defeat Botvinnik. Later, in '65 and '68, his misfortune was B.Spassky in top form. After '68 it was too late. Barring Spassky, perhaps, I think Geller would have been fully capable of defeating anybody in a title match, between about 1956-1968, with a posible exception of Petrosian in '66. The problem was to get there, to the threshold. Not only for Geller, but for some others, too. A number of factors play a role:
--to stay in top competitive form for years
--to have an enormous will power, strong nerves, healthy dosage of self-confidence --not allow anything to get in the way
--a bit of luck doesn't hurt either.
Good examples of the above were Smyslov's quest (1952-57), and Spassky's (1964-69). I've always felt that it was much harder to become an official Challenger (after 1948), than to win the title match. In most of the matches between 1951-1990 the victory could have gone either way. The exceptions being '59, '60, '63, '72, '81 and '85. The other 11 matches were, more or less, wide open affairs. Any qualified Challenger would have had a good chance. It is hard, perhaps impossible, to estimate P.Keres's chances in a title match. He had more solid opportunities to get there than anybody else (1948-62), not counting '65. Second in the Candidates 4 times in a row! Somehow he always came up short when it mattered the most. There was something lacking in his overall make-up. Not a lack of talent, knowledge and experience. I'd say willpower, nerves, total determination. The Qualities necessary for a champion-like material. Due to this, despite many great tournament results, I don't believe Keres would have been able to beat any of the Champions in a title match, anytime between 1951-1966. |
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| Mar-25-08 |
| Voltaic: this is a player i've still need to examine more. i know the most general things about him, like he defeated a lot of world champions and had a some great games, but i really feel one can learn a lot from him. btw he seems to have been a very affable person. |
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| Mar-28-08 |
| xrt999: http://db.chessmetrics.com/CM2/Play... here is just one of many reasons I like Geller. He was involved in the 1952 candidates cycle.....and the 1982 candidates cycle. 30 years of a quest for the World Championship! |
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| Apr-02-08 |
| xrt999: does anyone know where I could find Geller's books? I have been looking on ebay and Amazon and have not had any luck. I believe there are 2 books that he wrote, one is more autobiographical, and the other is straight chess analysis of his games. |
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Apr-02-08
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| refutor: i found "applications of chess theory" by geller in a used book store. it is 100 games, 64 of his best, then 36 wins v. world champions. i think it is on amazon http://www.amazon.com/Application-C... |
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| Apr-18-08 |
| xrt999: In his lifetime, Geller played 890 games as black and only lost 90 of these games. He won 264 and drew 536.
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