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| Aug-05-09 | | HeMateMe: I read a couple of books about the match, years ago. One by Feng Sui, the Carnegie Mellon grad student who oversaw the project, and one by an outsider. I don't think they allowed the training games to be seen. If there were any public games, they were available. I don't think it would have mattered. The best player will win. Rybka and Hydra's games are all overthe place, and they are mostly unbeatable. I thought it was interesting that Feng Sui, the chief developer of the project, is a very strong player himself. When these software programs were around 2400, he was still "competitive" with them, but was run off the board against the version that Kasparov played. I've never understood why IBM didn't allow a rematch, even for less money, or whatever. They would have been favored, perhaps even more so than in the first match. And another round against Kaspy, who gives instant star wattage, would have just brought more free publicity to IBM. In his book "American Grandmaster", Benjamin explains about how happy he was with getting this high paying gig for a year or so, working in New Jersey, refining Deep Blue. Most chess players don't make IBM money, especially semi retired ones. |
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| Aug-05-09 | | Jim Bartle: Interesting stuff. I'd really like to read that book. Now I don't know how it would be with such a powerful program as Deep Blue, especially if programmers are constantly tinkering with it, but it seems to me in general if a player can look at lots and lots of its games, he can find some weaknesses. |
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| Aug-05-09 | | HeMateMe: I think they still make mistakes in closed or semi closed positions. But GM wins against the best software are now few and far between. Maybe 10 years ago Kaspy could have reasoned some things out from the training games/and the logs of the codes. He would be the one guy to do it. But the money would have been on big blue. my first chess computer was from fidelity electronics, 30 years ago. the computer and board came together, in one unit. I think at its best, it could play at 1800,if you gave it three minutes per move. the last one I bought was about 10 years ago, it had a top rating of 2300, I couldnt give it a decent game. |
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| Aug-05-09 | | Jim Bartle: " I think they still make mistakes in closed or semi closed positions." Probably true. Which brings up something I wondered about during the 97 match: Kasparov was the world's best player, but was he the best at these sort of closed, maneuvering games? It certainly wasn't his typical style. |
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| Aug-05-09 | | HannibalSchlecter: It was not Benjamin's decision to make however he was adamant in defending the decision as can be seen in the documentary "game Over." |
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| Aug-05-09 | | HeMateMe: I saw the movie, too. I think they are correct, because the 'logs' are the computer's inner workings, not its record against people or other software programs. Its private property. Like all World Champions, Kasparov has a pretty big ego, and it made him look bad in this one instance. |
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| Aug-05-09 | | JointheArmy: <HeMateMe> *Sigh* Not this s*&* again. The issue wasn't the ethical question of whether or not IBM would hand over the logs, it was IBM AGREED to hand over the logs since Kasparov already booked a ticket out of New York forfeiting the match. IBM agreed to let Kasparov have them after the match was over. It took years before they were even made public and no one even knows if they were tampered with given the allotted time they weren't handed over. |
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| Aug-05-09 | | HeMateMe: Maybe kasparov SAYS they made that statement--is there proof that IBM publicly agreed to turn over this material? Just playing devil's advocate. |
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| Aug-06-09 | | HannibalSchlecter: IBM's attitude in that match was disgraceful. They acted so cold like it was some bitter courtroom divorce trial instead of having good sportsmanship and being friendly about it. Not handing over the logs when asked for was total b.s. and the excuse Benjamin gives for it doesn't add up. |
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| Aug-07-09 | | HeMateMe: <HannibalSchlecter:> Good sportsmanship? It was Kasparov who accused IBM of cheating. He thought they had an IM/GM level player hiding in some side room, combining human insight with the software's recommended moves, to avoid a 'computer error'. How embarrassingly childish. IBM? They have been the preeminent mainframe builders since WWII. IBM is the very definition of 'blue chip' company, they could buy and sell Baku. Kaspy might have shown a little good cheer himself, at the final press conference. I believe Gary still got his $one million dollars for a 6 game match, a little gratitude never hurts. It was a significant achievement by Feng Sui and his programmers, working with chess people like Benjamin and Nick DeFirmian. I don't think Kasparov congratulated the IBM team at all. I think his mother, Clara may have been in the front row, which is a little bit creepy, if you think about it, Kasparov being about 40 years old at the time. The accusation about a 'hidden player' is made very explicit in the documentary film on the match. Its worth a buck, if you get Netflix. BTW, these 'logs' that Kasparov spoke of are part of the internal workings of the Deep Blue configuraton. I think it falls under the category of 'intellectual property', they certainly don't have to display it to anyone. An unhappy man was unhappy in public. Certainly not as bad as "toilet gate' with Kramnik and Topalov, but not a shining moment for chess, either. |
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Mar-11-10
 | | wordfunph: happy birthday to the author of my book "American Grandmaster"!!! wish you write more books GM Joel Benjamin.. |
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| May-22-10 | | HeMateMe: Terrific book, fills in some gaps for those of us who followed chess back then. Joel's having a bad tournament, and doesn't play much anymore. I wonder if this is his last U.S. Open? |
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| Sep-24-10 | | rapidcitychess: <A few months after all the work I did on the Deep Blue project, at the US Championship, I thought "miserable Earthlings, you have no chance against me!"> --- Joel Benjamin Don't the aliens usually end up losing? |
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| Sep-24-10 | | HeMateMe: They get sent to Mexico and Romania. |
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| Sep-25-10 | | rapidcitychess: <HeMateMe> Oh ,that's why he was in Euorope. He and all his computer scientists are planning to rule the world by reverse engineering all the chess programs and combining their strong points. Or maybe not. :) |
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| Sep-25-10 | | MaxxLange: A guy from my club played him at the USATE back in the late 90's....Benjamin was wearing the US Championship ring He did the openings for Deep Blue, especially the c3 Sicilian as an anti-Kasparov weapon, and he also helped the developers train the evaluation function for things like minor piece quality, possible open lines, and that kind of dynamic positional stuff |
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| Sep-25-10 | | MaxxLange: They had other GMS on the team, also...Ilescas? One of the Spanish GMs was definitely involved, iirc |
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| Mar-11-11 | | HeMateMe: I think in the book Benjamin mentions hiring DeFirmian and his buddy John Federowicz to work on the opening book. Interestingly, I've never heard of 'Fed, Benjamin or DeFirmian making any public comments about Kasparov's allegations of "cheating" by IBM, or the controvery of these computer logs being made available. Maybe all three had to sign some sort of agreement with IBM permanently barring public comment about the project. |
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Mar-11-11
 | | Eric Schiller: Does anyone have a copy of Chess Life 1984 or 1985 of Berlin Summer Open with photo of Joel climbing Berlin Wall? CL never returned my photo. Joel nearly overslept the 4:30 pm first round! Luckily I had to call him about something! |
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Mar-11-11
 | | ketchuplover: happy birthday Joel :) |
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Mar-11-11
 | | Penguincw: Happy 47th birthday Joel Benjamin! |
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Mar-31-11
| | Penguincw: Quote of the Day:
< "A few months after all the work I did on the Deep Blue project, at the US Championship, I thought "miserable Earthlings, you have no chance against me!" > |
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Jan-26-12
| | Penguincw: Same quote as Mar-31-11. |
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Mar-11-12
| | Penguincw: Happy Birthday Joel Benjamin! |
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Mar-27-12
| | Penguincw: Quote of the Day
< "Topalov plays without fear; he is ready to go full-steam ahead." > --- Joel Benjamin |
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