< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 6553 OF 6553 ·
|Dec-21-14|| ||Shams: <zanzibar> I don't see a political angle yet. By your standards most cop shootings (which remain rare) would seem to qualify as assassinations, but I can't agree. |
Several years ago, four off-duty cops were slain in a coffee shop south of Seattle. A lot of words were thrown around in the aftermath of that but I don't recall hearing anybody call it an assassination. I get that the NYPD is somewhat embattled at the moment but still, elevating it to the status of an assassination seems unwarranted.
The Brooklyn cop killer first offed his girlfriend in Baltimore before traveling to the city. Doesn't sound political to me.
Meh, I guess it doesn't really matter what we call it. I wasn't challenging your spelling, by the way.
|Dec-21-14|| ||zanzibar: From a NY Daily News editorial:
< To put blood on de Blasio’s hands draws an unjustified and wildly inflammatory line between the mayor’s defensible policy positions — stances shared by Bratton — and the murderous extremism of the hard-core career criminal who killed Liu and Ramos.
Now is the time for New Yorkers, in uniform and not, both critics and defenders of the NYPD, to far more wisely draw lessons that honor the ultimate sacrifice made by these two officers by pulling together with healing resolve.>
|Dec-21-14|| ||zanzibar: <JimB> Thanks - I've corrected it.|
|Dec-21-14|| ||zanzibar: Again, from another article in NY Daily News:
<<Pat Lynch, who's the enemy in your NYPD union's war?>
<Lynch’s fulminations about legitimate policy differences have been destructively overheated. His call on cops to disinvite de Blasio and Council Speaker Melissa Mark-Viverito from their funerals in the event they are killed in the line of duty drew a rebuke from Timothy Cardinal Dolan.
That said, tarring a politician before the public while negotiating a labor contract is part of the game. (City voters disapprove of de Blasio’s handling of police-community relations by 56% to 36%, according to the Quinnipiac poll.)
But urging courtesy for “our friends” and “extreme discretion” for “our enemies” while on the job suggests two standards of enforcement in a city that counts on the police for equal protection.>
|Dec-21-14|| ||ljfyffe: <zanzibar>surely, the easy access to guns,
including by the deranged, is a factor; all too often swept under the rug by politicians and the media. The gun culture, surely too, contributes to the shoot-first-and- ask-questions-later attitude of police. Many countries are apalled by such goings-on while it seems almost ho-hum news in the US.|
|Dec-21-14|| ||ljfyffe: A deranged individual, who has had many encounters with the police, might further delude himself into believing himself a revenging assassin because of reported questionable killings by police. Guns are all over thr place for the picking.|
|Dec-21-14|| ||HeMateMe: Being mayor of New York City is like being an inmate at Bellevue--everyone thinks everyone else is crazy.|
Giuliani, the former 2 time mayor of NYC was on the air today. He said De Blasio's error was in not using the pen system for demonstrations. Steel sections are built in roads, and the proetesters have to stay in the steel pens, while they wave their signs and chant things. Tough call--this ensures more police control over the crowd, but angers demonstrators, who feel they should have freedom of movement.
Giuliani had a huge number of police brutality complaints appear during his time. I don't know If they were all warranted or not, but it is interesting to look at all different angles.
Someone I was working with told me that he was in a protest march during the RG era and the huge horses were driven directly into the protestors to break up the crowd. He wasn't hurt, but some other people were knocked down.
I'd be ok with Abdel going duck hunting with Dick Cheney. Can we get this man an airline ticket?
|Dec-21-14|| ||MarkFinan: http://news.sky.com/story/1395922/m...|
|Dec-21-14|| ||Colonel Mortimer: <ljfyffe: <zanzibar>surely, the easy access to guns, including by the deranged, is a factor; all too often swept under the rug by politicians and the media. The gun culture, surely too, contributes to the shoot-first-and- ask-questions-later attitude of police. Many countries are apalled by such goings-on while it seems almost ho-hum news in the US.>|
True. If you legislate the Wild West into society, you shouldn't be surprised by the freedom everyone has to kill each other..
|Dec-21-14|| ||Colonel Mortimer: <Pulled over for Playing the Wrong Song? Authoritarianism Is Creeping Up on America|
We need to retrieve our values from the trash-heap of history where Bush and Cheney threw them.>
<On Thanksgiving Day, 26-year-old law student Cesar Baldelomar was pulled over by a police officer in northwest Miami.
So what was the reason for his stop?
He was playing the song "F**K Tha Police" by N.W.A on his radio.
According to the Miami New Times, police officer Harold Garzon confronted Baldelomar at a stop light, and reportedly said to him, "You're really playing that song? Pull over."
When Baldelomar pulled over, the officer claimed that it was illegal for him to being playing music that loudly within 25 feet of another person.
Being a law student, Baldelomar knew that wasn't the case. In fact, as Baldelomar told the Miami New Times, "In 2012 the state supreme court struck down any law banning loud music. I knew that because it was a case I had actually studied in law school."
Officer Garzon then reportedly issued Baldelomar a ticket for not having proof of car insurance (even though he did and offered it to Garzon) and tickets for not wearing a seatbelt and having an out-of-state license.>
Americans need to take their country back, not invade other countries.
|Dec-21-14|| ||zanzibar: Few details, just more bad news - another killing of a police officer, in Florida:|
|Dec-21-14|| ||zanzibar: <shams> the assassination discussion has a semantic component to it. |
In my mind I think the Seattle killings could be labeled an assassination - though the press tended to use phraselogy like "execution-style".
But the killings were targeted against the police as a whole, and were planned out well in advance.
I found this:
<State Attorney General Rob McKenna termed the shootings an "assassination.">
I've also seen recent news reporting where Bratton also terms the NYC killing an "assassination".
|Dec-21-14|| ||devere: Cop Killer Ismaaiyl Brinsley Posted Quranic Verse: ‘And Strike Terror Into Their Hearts’|
Muslim NYPD Brooklyn Cop Killer Sold Kill George Zimmerman T-Shirts
|Dec-21-14|| ||Colonel Mortimer: Cops shoot people, people shoot cops.
That's what happens when everyone expresses their 'freedom' to bear arms.
Obviously the American 'solution' is to throw more guns at the equation instead of looking to countries with low gun deaths, which surprise surprise have gun restrictions.
|Dec-21-14|| ||Colonel Mortimer: Add to that a massively unequal society and you sow the seeds of social unrest.|
The gap between rich and poor in America is so vast, the rich are having to buy a 2nd yacht.
|Dec-21-14|| ||al wazir: Here in Rogovia we seem to disagree on every political issue pertaining to the Muslim world. But we're not the only ones: <Discord among the gulf states has undermined efforts to coordinate support for rebels fighting President Bashar al-Assad of Syria and contributed to the emergence of the Islamic State. It has muted the attempts of the Gulf Cooperation Council, the alliance founded by the six gulf states, to counter what they see as expanding Iranian influence. And in Libya, rival gulf states have backed competing armed factions and hastened a slide toward full civil war. [...] Having struck an alliance with the Muslim Brotherhood in a play for regional influence, Qatar financially supported the group’s former government in Egypt, opposed the military takeover as an illegal “coup” and provided a haven to Islamists in exile after the subsequent crackdown. Qatar’s Al Jazeera network has repeatedly excoriated the new government of President Abdel Fattah el-Sisi. Saudi Arabia and the U.A.E., which consider the Brotherhood a threat to their own stability, both backed the Egyptian military takeover. And both have pressed Qatar to expel the exiled Islamists and curb Al Jazeera.> http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/21/w...|
|Dec-21-14|| ||cormier: Gospel LK 1:26-38
The angel Gabriel was sent from God
to a town of Galilee called Nazareth,
to a virgin betrothed to a man named Joseph,
of the house of David,
and the virgin’s name was Mary.
And coming to her, he said,
“Hail, full of grace! The Lord is with you.”
But she was greatly troubled at what was said
and pondered what sort of greeting this might be.
Then the angel said to her,
“Do not be afraid, Mary,
for you have found favor with God.
“Behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son,
and you shall name him Jesus.
He will be great and will be called Son of the Most High,
and the Lord God will give him the throne of David his father,
and he will rule over the house of Jacob forever,
and of his kingdom there will be no end.”
But Mary said to the angel,
“How can this be,
since I have no relations with a man?”
And the angel said to her in reply,
“The Holy Spirit will come upon you,
and the power of the Most High will overshadow you.
Therefore the child to be born
will be called holy, the Son of God.
And behold, Elizabeth, your relative,
has also conceived a son in her old age,
and this is the sixth month for her who was called barren;
for nothing will be impossible for God.”
Mary said, “Behold, I am the handmaid of the Lord.
May it be done to me according to your word.”
Then the angel departed from her.
|Dec-21-14|| ||devere: France: Driver Runs Over People 'for the Children of Palestine'|
Driver shouts "Allahu Akbar" as he runs into groups of people in the eastern French city of Dijon, injuring 11.
|Dec-21-14|| ||Abdel Irada: <The element of surprise, the targeting for uniform alone, and the "desire to acquire fame or notoriety" all make it fairly clear it was an act of assassination.>|
It was murder, plain and simple. There's nothing about targeting for uniform in the definition you supplied. If these individual cops had been prominent in some way, "assassinated" would have been correct; for ordinary officers, it is not.
|Dec-21-14|| ||zanzibar: <Abdel> On some things we agree, on other things we disagree. |
The English language is a pliable thing, and I assert my right to use it as I please (or, as the case may be, displease).
It's not entirely a pleasant point to discuss, but once again, my usage matches that of others, some within law enforcement itself:
<New York City Police Commissioner William Bratton said the officers were shot "with no warning, no provocation."
Witnesses saw Brinsley walk to the car and assume what they described as a shooting stance.
"They were, quite simply, assassinated," Bratton said.>
|Dec-21-14|| ||Colonel Mortimer: Assassination is the murder of a prominent person or political figure by a surprise attack, usually for payment or political reasons.|
|Dec-21-14|| ||HeMateMe: lol! Mort and Harry went to grammar school together. lol|
|Dec-21-14|| ||Colonel Mortimer: This is how Anglo-American democracy and respect for human rights works..|
The residents of Diego Garcia were deported from their own land by the British and their homeland handed over for lease to make way for the US base of Diego Garcia, which was probably one of many black sites where Americans tortured people..
<Residents of the Chagos Islands who were kicked out of their homes in the 1960s by the British government to make way for a US military base fear they may never return home, despite politicians’ promises, RT’s Polly Boiko reports.
When the Chagos Islands’ fate was decided in 1966, they were a British colony. The UK leased the territory to the US. As part of the deal several thousand local Chagossian people were simply kicked out and deported to Mauritius and Seychelles.>
|Dec-21-14|| ||Softpaw: <cormier: Gospel LK 1:26-38 [...]
“Behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall name him Jesus.|
He will be great and will be called Son of the Most High, and the Lord God will give him the throne of David his father...>
How was David Jesus' father?
|Dec-21-14|| ||johnlspouge: "Assassination is the murder of a prominent person or political figure by a surprise attack, usually for payment or political reasons.|
An assassination may be prompted by religious, political, or military motives; it is an act that may be done for financial gain, to avenge a grievance, from a desire to acquire fame or notoriety, or because of a military or security services command to carry out the homicide."
[ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assass... ]
I have no doubt that less precise definitions might exist.
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