< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 1999 OF 1999 ·
|Nov-24-14|| ||Petrosianic: <john barleycorn>: <That what they are known for is not why they were deferred.>|
Well, that was the question. We already knew that he was, the question was why was he?
The implication of this list is that these people got deferments <because> of their celebrity status, but in many cases that is indisputably untrue.
|Nov-24-14|| ||john barleycorn: <Petrosianic: ...
The implication of this list is that these people got deferments <because> of their celebrity status, ...>
I do not see it that way. The list contains "name", "occupation", "birth", "death" and "known for" columns. No "deferred because of". Those who want to read it in it, ok none of my business.
|Nov-24-14|| ||AylerKupp: Given his reputedly very high IQ, Fischer must have been classified 4F because he was too smart. See my one fourth / one half post above.|
|Nov-24-14|| ||Petrosianic: Funny, and reminds me of horror stories from people in New Mexico trying to convince people, even college professors, that they were actually a part of the US. (I heard one story where someone applied to a college for grant money, and was told to go to their own country). But since Fischer was a High School dropout, it seems unlikely that he got any deferments for academic proficiency.|
|Nov-24-14|| ||MissScarlett: Could one get a deferment on the basis of a close relative being a suspected Commie spy?|
|Nov-24-14|| ||HeMateMe: <Has the precise reason as to why Fischer was rejected by the army ever been disclosed?>|
The same reason Stalin spared all of the Russian and soviet bloc chess titans from fighting on the front lines. The Soviets put emphasis on chess as a way in which they could compete with the west. They were special.
Bronstein, for example was part of a construction brigade in Ukraine, cleaning up and rebuilding what had been destroyed when the Nazi's came through. Safe, well away from the fighting. The soviets were drafting men up to age 60, to make up for the horrible losses that occurred in the first two years of the war. still, the great chess players of the 1930s were not part of their draft.
I imagine Fischer was deferred for the same reason. The USA state department, or possibly a special patron WAY up the food chain, decided that Fischer was a guy who was a REAL bug up the butt of the Soviet Union, and he was of more value at a chess board than as a grunt hauling a pack and M-16 in the Mekong Delta.
<The funniest one here is Al Franken, listed as Senator From Minnesota>
would you want to go into battle with Al franken?
|Nov-24-14|| ||Petrosianic: Well, the original question was has it ever been <disclosed>. Not "has it ever been guessed at?"|
|Nov-24-14|| ||Alien Math: <Frank Brady's 'Profile of a Prodigy' (Dover, 1973), chapter IX, p.79:-|
The question of Fischer’s potential military service was an acute one, since as a “1-A” candidate, he was scheduled to undergo his physical examination at the U.S. Army Recruiting Station on Whitehall Street in New York, and at that particular time it was believed that he might play in the Interzonal at Amsterdam .
Harold M. Phillips, past president of the U.S. Chess Federation, had been a member of a local draft board for years and I called him to see if he could suggest a way that Bobby could qualify for a temporary deferment until after the Interzonal was completed.
Eventually, Bobby took his physical examination and was rejected for reasons that have never been made public. Perhaps the local board decided that this young American would be much more valuable sitting across a chess board in the capitals of the world than he would be toting a bazooka through a Vietnamese jungle. Whatever the reason, Fischer never served in the military. > http://chessforallages.blogspot.com...
Various alternate notes of why appears at http://www.chesstalk.info/forum/arc...
|Nov-24-14|| ||zanzibar: Feynman's deferment makes for a good story:
From <Surely You're Joking, Mr. Feynman!>
An excerpt, according to Feynman he wrote the following to the draft board:
I do not think I should be drafted because I am teaching science students, and it partly in the strength of our future scientists that the national welfare lies. Nevertheless, you may decide that I should be deferred because of the result of my medical report, namely, that I am psychiatrically unfit. I feel that no weight whatsoever should be attached to this report because I consider it to be a gross error.
I am calling this error to your attention because I am insane enough not to wish to take advantage of it.
Result: "Deferred. 4F. Medical Reasons.">
|Nov-24-14|| ||Petrosianic: <Eventually, Bobby took his physical examination and was rejected for reasons that have never been made public. Perhaps the local board decided that this young American would be much more valuable sitting across a chess board in the capitals of the world than he would be toting a bazooka through a Vietnamese jungle.>|
The first statement is a statement of fact. The second is one of those totally wild guesses that Brady became annoyingly famous for in <Endgame>. It's hard to imagine the Army caring much about chess, or drafting Ted Williams, and letting Fischer off. Brady's swag seems really unlikely.
|Nov-24-14|| ||HeMateMe: Maybe it wasn't the army. If Nixon and Kissinger knew he was potentially better at the Soviet game than the Soviets, maybe someone put the right message in the right person's ear.|
Unless, that is you feel that 6-2 completely healthy, intelligent young men who are high school drop outs (no college deferment) get labeled 4-f by the Vietnam draft boards.
|Nov-24-14|| ||RookFile: I think the Army got it right. You need a guy who is willing to be a team player. He's going to save your life and you're going to save his.|
|Nov-24-14|| ||Sally Simpson: Sally Simpson: I like HeMateMe's answer about Fischer complaining about the lighting in the barracks. |
But you can spin any yarn you want to on this one.
Since his 'Russians have fixed World Chess' outburst it was felt if Fischer had gone to Vietnam the Russians would have got the Viet Cong to target Fischer in virtual suicide missions thus putting him and his comrades in mortal peril.
So they felt it best to keep him out of the military.
File this under unproven rumours and stick with it with all the others.
Or copy and paste and it in at least 3 other forums on the net and by Christmas it will become a fact.
|Nov-24-14|| ||AylerKupp: <Sally Simpson> Why will it take that long? Just post it on Facebook or Twitter.|
|Nov-24-14|| ||Sally Simpson: Hi AylerKupp, You will have to do it mate.
Facebook password I forgot. Only use to go one once a year, added all the friends, (why not?) told everyone how sad they were and left.
No Twitter account - I'll never have one.
|Nov-24-14|| ||pcomanici: Was Fisher a diabetic? He died of renal failure. (Common among diabetics) that would explain his rejection from the draft. Bottom line the guy was a beast! Probably the strongest chess player we will ever see. Today we have rating inflation, the GM's of today are no stronger than the GM's of previous. Only difference is this new crop lives in the information age. Hence, there prep is stronger, but that isn't the same as Chess technique/skill.|
|Nov-25-14|| ||HeMateMe: Not a whole lot is in print about Fischer's health records. He was overweight and might have had type II diabetes, which if untreated could have damaged his kidneys. The people who know aren't talking.|
|Nov-25-14|| ||Sleepwalking: Well I opened up a can of worms!
It just struck me as odd that a young man who was reported to be at the peak of his physical fitness was rejected...on the surface he looks like the ideal candidate for such undertakings.
It's possible (and probably likely) that there is a wholly innocent reason as to why he was never drafted but part of me wondered whether it's possible that he was dubbed 'unfit' after a clinical psychiatric assessment.
I believe Brady mentioned that after Fischer's altercation with Benko, the latter remarked 'He was not a well man even then..' or something along those lines. It makes you wonder how early Fischer was displaying clear signs of mental illness and perhaps how different the situation would be if he was alive today (in terms of diagnosis and treatment).
|Nov-25-14|| ||Joshka: In 1961 I believe we only had a few advisors/trainers in Viet Nam that were left over from the Eisenhower administration. Kennedy then sent more in 1962, so Bobby really was not in the type of drafting they did when my generation was supplying the young men to go over there and fight, 4-8 years later. I believe they even turned you down if you had flat feet! So it wasn't all that hard to be turned away from the draft in the late 50's to very early 60's. Still since they won't release the reason makes me wonder what were they hiding!!??|
|Nov-26-14|| ||lamont: ###
|Nov-26-14|| ||lamont: ###
Great mathematicians are all mad.
~Paul Erdos (pr. Air-dish
Madness is also not foreign to chess.
A sane Bobby wd/ never have become Champ.
(He lived like a Trappist monk.
11-0 sweep of U.S. Championship
7-0 + 6-0 + 6-0 + 1-0 = 20-1
are demonically mad achievements.
|Nov-26-14|| ||Sleepwalking: <lamont> Indeed, madness isn't foreign to Chess. What I find ironic is that, a game so mentally stimulating and challenging is probably perceived on the surface to be tantamount to a healthy mind. However it seems that the further up the food chain you go, the more the line between an active mind and an obsessive one becomes blurred.|
|Nov-26-14|| ||SteinitzLives: GM Wojo put it well, when he said: The better you get at chess, the more self-centered you become. |
Self-focus, and the arrogance that often accompanies it, is a one way ticket towards paranoia or other mental illness, from which several chess players have not recovered.
In just about any technical field, the better ones technical skills grow, the weaker ones interpersonal skill become.
That's why for instance, computer programmers make terrible trainers, and in chess the best instructors are not anywhere near the highest rated. Look at Pandolfini, and Heisman, premier chess teachers in the U.S., no where near the top in rating.
Chess, sadly for some, can become an unhealthy addiction, particularly when playing is an occupation; but as an avocation it rules!
Some of the happiest chess people I know, make their living in chess, but not by playing it. Teaching it, organizing events, running tourneys and chess camps, etc.. Playing, they do just for the sheer joy of it.
I know others who enjoy chess more by studying it than by playing, and play rarely but spectate and study very often. To me, studying without playing in serious tournaments, is a waste, but who can debate where ones joy comes from.
|Nov-26-14|| ||kamagong24: Are all GM's chess addicts? especially those who became world champs?|
|Nov-26-14|| ||SteinitzLives: Some probably have a higher tolerance than others. |
The general definition of an addiction is: the state of being enslaved to a habit or practice or to something that is psychologically or physically habit-forming, to such an extent that its cessation causes severe trauma.
So I would say no, most GMs are not addicts.
In chess I see many who are afraid of becoming hooked because they see the lives of those who are.
A chess addict (who cannot work a regular job) who is not good enough at chess (in all of its possible ways of making a living) is often (but not always) a sad picture indeed, that most of us would not want to be.
Seeing four USCF rated chess masters playing a speed tourney to see who got to sleep in the one bed in the motel room they were all sharing, because none had anywhere near the money to afford a better situation, was a real eye-opener to me many years ago.
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