< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 7 OF 7 ·
|Jan-25-18|| ||zanzibar: Winter seems to suggest the percentage is better, or at least doesn't seem to mention the other 50%:|
<In recent decades, historical chess biographies have seen a major advance in scholarship, with far greater recognition of the need for precise sources. The world’s leading publisher in the field is McFarland & Company, Inc., and any list of its best biographical works is likely to include the following:
• Stephen Davies: Lipschütz;
• Richard Forster: Burn;
• Stephen W. Gordon: Reshevsky;
• Tim Harding: Blackburne and Eminent Victorian Chess Players;
• John S. Hilbert: Hodges (with Peter P. Lahde), Kemeny, Leonard, Pollock (with O.G. Urcan), Shipley;
• Martin Frère Hillyer: Frère;
• Hans Renette: Bird;
• Miguel A. Sánchez: Capablanca;
• Leonard M. Skinner and Robert G.P. Verhoeven: Alekhine;
• Per Skjoldager and Jørn Erik Nielsen: Nimzowitsch;
• Olimpiu G. Urcan: Albin, Finn, Kaufmann (with P.M. Braunwarth), Pollock (with J.S. Hilbert);
• Joost van Winsen: Mason;
• Aidan Woodger: Fine;
• Fabrizio Zavatarelli: Kolisch.
Gotta admit, just from my limited viewing of these titles, they're pretty darn good.
|Jan-25-18|| ||OhioChessFan: You can say that again!|
|Jan-25-18|| ||zanzibar: ... they're pretty darn good.|
|Jan-26-18|| ||Retireborn: I put an order in for the Woodger book the other day. It had better be Fine!|
|Jan-26-18|| ||MissScarlett: Is there an A H Coe in here?|
|Jan-26-18|| ||zanzibar: <<RB> ... It had better be Fine!>|
About Fine isn't good enuff?!
|Jan-26-18|| ||Retireborn: <z> The book certainly has a fine old price on it! I'm hoping to get a few more annotated games for my collection, though.|
|Jul-20-18|| ||swampdragon: I have more of these than I should. The Alekhine book is marvelous, a true desert island book, and the Blackburne book isn't far behind.|
|Sep-27-18|| ||sachistu: I'm afraid I'm going to have to fall in the camp of <TheFocus>. I recently acquired the Tanner book, and although I probably should reserve judgment until I go through it in its entirety, what I have seen so far is not favorable.|
For example, on page 35, the score from game 4 from the first match with Edith Price (April 20-23,1925) is badly mangled. Black's 38th is impossible, and it's not clear exactly how to reconstruct it. By the way, the book gives the ECO code of A16 with the description of French, Classical Variation! Clearly, the opening was C13.
Next, on page 36, from the 2nd match, played in June, the book gives the date as October 6th! (June 10th seems much more likely.) Moreover, the score is also mangled as it evidently leaves out the actual 42nd move-pair (42.Qf5 Rc8). As given, the score makes little sense, and then goes completely haywire on move 45. Tanner cites the Times Literary Supplement, but gives no day, month or year. In fairness to Tanner, he does give complete source references e.g. day, mth, yr, and page in other instances.
In scanning through the game source references, I was surprised (and disappointed) to see numerous references to chessgames.com and 365Chess.com. No offense intended for this site (CG), but using such a reference does not suggest a very exhaustive source search.
In other cases, Tanner cites some of Tony Gillam's works, but does not include the actual source used in Tony's books. Using a 2nd or 3rd hand source reference does not create a favorable impression.
So far, not so good. I expected a better book. Anyone using the games scores from the book should check them carefully, but wasn't that the author's job??
|Sep-27-18|| ||MissScarlett: <Crowley’s acerbic side is also much in evidence in his diaries of the 1930s, the opening of the National Chess Centre in November 1939 occasioning a characteristic piece of rudery, this time at the expense of Vera Menchik:
“Stop! Look! & listen! ere you enter the grand new National Chess Centre.
For there you will find as manag’ress The most unGodly cow in chess.”>|
|Sep-27-18|| ||TheFocus: The British press actively sought to downplay Vera's achievements.|
You will notice that not very many of her games appeared in British chess periodicals. This was a deliberate thing.
|Sep-27-18|| ||Z truth: <<Focus> The British press actively sought to downplay Vera's achievements.>|
Is that also an opinion appearing in the historical literature too?
[Meaning that other historian have expressed the same opinion.]
|Sep-27-18|| ||TheFocus: <Z truth: <<Focus> The British press actively sought to downplay Vera's achievements.>|
<Is that also an opinion appearing in the historical literature too?>
Yes, it is. In Tanner's book, pg. 21, he presents E. S. Tinsley's letter to GM Eliskases addressing this. (I'm not typing out the letter. This is not the only reference I have to this downplaying, but I am not going to present my sources here, because I plan to make use of them elsewhere.)
Look through British Chess Magazine and see how her results are covered. In one tournament, which she won, none of her games appear. I believe second place had 2 or 3 presented.
|Sep-27-18|| ||Z truth: <Focus> I understand, thanks for the info.|
I do wonder if there was some element unique to Menchik in particular, or if it was just the general downplaying of any/all female accomplishments.
|Sep-28-18|| ||TheFocus: <Z truth: <Focus> I understand, thanks for the info.|
I do wonder if there was some element unique to Menchik in particular, or if it was just the general downplaying of any/all female accomplishments.>
That would be an interesting topic to explore!! Perhaps her case is more noticeable because of her fame.
|Sep-28-18|| ||Dijon15: I wonder if this line in the bio could be expanded:|
"Albert Becker quipped that these and the other men she defeated were members of the "Menchik Club."
In 1929, at the Carlsbad tournament, Viennese master Albert Becker ridiculed her entry by proposing that any player whom she defeated should be granted membership in the Vera Menchik Club. In that very tournament, Becker himself became the first member.
|Sep-28-18|| ||MissScarlett: <The British press actively sought to downplay Vera's achievements.>|
The chess press, the general press or both? And was this strategy the result of an actual conspiracy or was it an <incredible meeting of minds, a consensus -- mind reading by a far-flung bureaucracy>?
|Sep-28-18|| ||sachistu: It's embarrassing, but the error I indicated in the 4th game of the first Price-Menchik match was caused by a transcription error on my part (on move 20). The score as given in the book is apparently correct (or at least plausible), even though Tanner gives no source for the game. The ECO code is incorrect, but that's a minor error.|
While Tanner is 'off the hook' on that item, I stand by my original comments regarding the book in general. I found it very disappointing.
|Nov-11-18|| ||HeMateMe: The Czech republic honors Vera Menchik with a postage stamp|
The bio here states that she was born in Moscow to Czech parents then moved to England at age nine, and of course died in a London air raid in 1944. Did she never actually live in Czechoslovakia?
|Nov-11-18|| ||Paint My Dragon: <HMM: Czech parents> It actually says 'English and Czech' parents above.|
Her mother was English and was able to get the family some assistance at the British Consul (for a move to Hastings) when things went badly wrong for them in Moscow. The 1917 revolution had resulted in them losing part of their house and the father's business.
Vera never lived in Czechoslovakia, but sometimes visited her father in Carlsbad, after her parents separated.
|Nov-11-18|| ||zanzibar: (According to wiki...)
She was born in Moscow (her Czech father was an estate-manager of several Russian properties, her British mother was a governess). But despite her parents backgrounds it seems she only learned one language as a child, and it wasn't Czech or English:
<As Vera spoke only Russian she hesitated to go to the local chess club, but at last on 18 March 1923 she joined the Hastings Chess Club and began to take lessons from John Drewitt. Then she became a pupil of the grandmaster Géza Maróczy. During 1923 she played in several team matches.>
|Nov-23-18|| ||Dijon15: I ask once again. I wonder if this line in the bio could be expanded:|
'Albert Becker quipped that these and the other men she defeated were members of the "Menchik Club."'
Proposed expanded text. "In 1929, at the Carlsbad tournament, Viennese master Albert Becker ridiculed her entry by proposing that any player whom she defeated should be granted membership in the Vera Menchik Club. In that very tournament, Becker himself became the first member."
|Nov-24-18|| ||MissScarlett: The matter is not as clearcut as you suggest: http://www.chesshistory.com/winter/...|
|Feb-16-19|| ||Ironmanth: RIP Vera.|
|Feb-16-19|| ||Penguincw: < Feb-16-13 Sneaky: I propose that from now on, February 16th is known as Vera Menchik day. >|
Happy Vera Menchik Day then? :)
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