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>> Click here to see's game collections. Full Member has kibitzed 12656 times to chessgames   [more...]
   Dec-12-17 chessforum (replies) <Klu #13 was pretty much a repeat of klu#41 from Chessgames Present Hunt Clues Page 2012> More or less, but after all, it is the first night of Hanukah this evening. <IMSA Elite Mind Games> We're working on getting the PGN to this very strong but under-promoted ...
   Dec-12-17 MissScarlett chessforum (replies) <ask CG if they will take my JH subs and transfer to you ... xx> That's very generous of you. We already took care of the details.
   Dec-11-17 Kibitzer's Café (replies) <xajik: how you find thats Toms ? ))> Home page > Advanced search > Player 1 = "TOM" / Player 2 = "TOM" > "FIND CHESS GAMES" = (Due to an old and well-known bug the game will appear twice.)
   Dec-10-17 I Nepomniachtchi vs M Vachier-Lagrave, 2017 (replies) Please note that this game starts at 7:00am USA/Eastern, two hours earlier than the previous round.
   Dec-10-17 AlphaZero vs Stockfish, 2017 (replies) We stuck Stockfish on 21.? for 5 hours to see if it could come up with 21.Bg5!! The answer is "no" analysis of move 21.?
   Dec-10-17 D Freeman vs Laufer, 1993 (replies) Thanks everybody for your support and birthday wishes. You people are really what this is all about. <Where is my mind: To the next 8 years cheers!> I've been waiting 8 years to answer that post. Thank you, and here's to 8 more years still!
   Dec-09-17 Biographer Bistro (replies) Ah, thanks. I knew it looked familiar.
   Dec-09-17 Caruana vs W So, 2017 (replies) Any request for the next game?
   Dec-08-17 Nakamura vs Carlsen, 2017 (replies) I picked this game without even looking at the position. Hope it's a fun one.
   Dec-08-17 Santa Claus (replies) This year Santa Claus is giving away at least 14 premium memberships to lucky chess fans. 8 of these are supplied by, 6 from an anonymous benefactor, and more may be added from further donations or as conversions from the Holiday Puzzle Hunt. (This number may ...
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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 484 OF 1045 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Premium Chessgames Member
  Benzol: From July last year << <jessicafischerqueen> Your points are well taken. Don't worry about us throwing out the baby with the bathwater, we know how much work has been done with the Game Collection feature. <Does this mean that the tournament collections that exist at present will become redundant?> They may become redundant in the sense that people will be able to go to other pages on the site to get the same information, but understand that these tournament collections are integral to the upcoming plans. In fact, I imagine certain users to be administrators of certain tournaments, in the sense that it will be their game collections that supply us with the tournament information.

Just for example: Suppose one day we may want to make a page for the St. Louis tournament of 1904. We'll then turn to <crawfb5> and say "Is your Game Collection: St. Louis 1904 complete and accurate?" And he will probably say "Yes!" and then we're cooking with gas. The software will take data out of his collection to use for the new tournament page. Then suppose there is a game from round 9 that was considered lost to history, but he finds it in an old chess magazine. He can submit it, then add it to his collection, and voila, the tournament page is updated.

Only by chopping this project up into bite-sized chunks can we possibly make significant progress. It's going to take a lot of people to make it happen.

Finally, if I haven't emphasized this before, let me say it now: so many projects that we do, notably the History of the World Chess Championship, would never have been possible were it not for the dedication of certain members. With regards to the WCC feature, we are grateful to <suenteus po 147>, <Dillinger>, <nescio>, <Resignation Trap>, <Hesam7>, and others. So many people help with these projects that it is sometimes uncomfortable to list names in fear of forgetting somebody, but please know that we are aware of the enormous help that we receive and are deeply appreciative.>

Feb-22-12  frogbert: <>

re recreating fen-strings in delete boxes:

<In short, what your asking for could be accommodated but it would require a major revision to our method of posting. Sorry.>

being a computer guy and perl practitioner i have to disagree: what you have stored for a post should be more than enough to "unparse" it back to the naked fen, which is all that would be needed to save people from manually having to do the work. consider this code, which i *assume* is stored, more or less:

javascript: OpenWin ('/perl/fen?fen=8 /1P5p/8/p1Pk1pP1/2p2B2/2Kp4/P3r2P/8')

hms' suggestion -

<Have the <fen-string> appear in the <delete box> instead of having the <fen-diagram> appear.>

- is simply a question of replacing the javascript nugget with the fen-part of it, making the above turn into simply <8 /1P5p/8/p1Pk1pP1/2p2B2/2Kp4/P3r2P/8> alternatively enclosed by space. if there's a problem with how functions are chained in your implementation, so that the transformation from fen to the javascript nugget is hard to "avoid", then it can be worked-around in the same way as i did above, by adding a *space* or some other fixed character in the fen-string, for example in front of the first slash ("/"). for hms and others (me included) this would be a big improvement over having to do all this work manually.

to the best of my understanding this should require <no changes> to what's actually stored in your database, only some minor code fiddling, the amount slightly depending on how your perl code is organized.

also, for a related issue - "broken links", i.e. internal links that only works for the poster (or someone with an identical ignore list) due to specific pagenum references - please see my profile page and the simple work-around i created for a sub-set of the problem. i imagine that something similar could've rather easily been made available to a broader audience.

Premium Chessgames Member
  AylerKupp: <jessicafischerqueen> I had a similar problem when using Chrome. Hopefully the following information will help:
Premium Chessgames Member
  jessicafischerqueen: <AylerKupp> Much appreciated!

<Benzol> yes I remember that reply- thanks for reposting it. However, note that the reply says nothing whatsoever about the point I raised today. What will happen to the actual introductions to the collections?

Will they be left intact (a very good idea) or will they be converted into brief, often inaccurate and badly sourced blurbs (a very bad idea)?

The current <History of the World Championship> is in "blurb format" and what's more the blurbs are inadequately sourced, and in some cases feature highly debatable "facts" about each event.

Premium Chessgames Member
  jessicafischerqueen: I'll be more specific. Wikipedia links, whilst handy and generally of strong quality in terms of chess entries, aren't adequate sources in and of themselves for such a important feature as <History of the World Championship> pages.

Adequate sources are those as close as possible to primary sources.

There exist a golden handful of truly excellent chess history books *and* websites that not only use primary sources but also properly footnote to those sources.

Among the membership at this website, we have access to many of these golden books.

So there really isn't any reason not to have this information employed, and listed, as the basis for the information in the introductions to each of the Matches in the <History of the World Championship> feature.

Premium Chessgames Member Frogbert's idea to <unparse> the FEN is a good idea. It will surely get tricky but it can be done.

<JFQ> Your points are all perfectly valid, notably this one <Why not give your most trusted member biographers power to edit these pages, not just the player bios?> The History of the World Chess Championship feature was really intended to open up a bunch of fascinating discussion areas, plus the handy cross tables. Our attempt at adding brief introductions to the matches is well placed but admittedly not as scholarly as we would like to see it. The main question is whether to recruit some specific people for the job, or to make it a general access "wiki" akin the biographies.

Premium Chessgames Member
  jessicafischerqueen: <CG> thanks for such a prompt and encouraging response. Really, very encouraging.

Along the lines of "if it's not broken don't fix it," why not stick with your existing trusted cadre of members who currently enjoy editing privileges on the player biography pages? I can't think of a better crew to update the <History of the World Championship> introductions.

I'm in close contact with a few of them and not only are they excellent- without doubt- recently, some of them have been doing an extraordinary amount of work to update and improve the player bios, particularly those of the more prominent figures in chess history.

This is one of the recent successful updates, a flagship internet chess biography if there ever was one: Alexander Alekhine

Premium Chessgames Member Wow, we hadn't seen the Alekhine biography lately. Quite impressive!

<subheadings> Incidentally we are working on a tiny tweak to allow for classier looking subheadings in biographies. You can see it in the Alekhine biography now.

The new rule is that if something is enclosed in <pointy brackets> and also at the very start of a paragraph (or on a line all by itself) it assumes that the text is intended to be a heading. At that stage the pointies become invisible and the text turns into dark-brown boldface. You can see this on the Alekhine page right now and a few others we were testing on.

We don't want to force people to change their habits, or to learn anything new at all really, so the idea is is that people can keep using the same conventions they have always used and the output will look a little classier. At least, we hope it looks classier.

On the other hand, some people have grown to love the little pointy brackets and may hate to see them go. So regard this change as both minor and potentially temporary. In any case there's no reason to go changing biographies to accommodate this change.

I'll make an announcement about the <subheadings> feature on the The Biographer Bistro if it seems to work and we decide to keep it. Until then regard it as a beta test experiment.

Premium Chessgames Member
  jessicafischerqueen: I think the subheadings on the <Alekhine> page look great. I bet <twinlark> will be happy to see the page after the tweak. The tweak does make the formatting look classier.
Feb-23-12  crawfb5: I also like the subheading tweak, but might I further suggest trying a different font color to make them stand out a bit more from the black text?
Premium Chessgames Member
  Phony Benoni: Definitely like the subheadings. I think the bold typeface is distinctive enough from the rest of the text, and would prefer it to another color.

I do not miss the pointy brackets. Not for a moment.

Premium Chessgames Member
  twinlark: Great innovation.
Feb-24-12  positionalgenius: Very nice additions <CG>
Feb-24-12  frogbert: *unparsing posts* = <making posts> with modifications (like diagrams, chess notation, link-rewriting, etc.) <postable again> with minimal manual work.

(cf the requests of <hms> and others.)

here goes: i don't know how useful this is, but i whipped together a little prototype that intends to be a smooth work-around until makes a more proper fix for these convenience issues. <here's how it works>:

by copying the full source code of an existing page with kibitzing (player pages, game pages, tournament pages, user forums, the kibitizer's cafe, etc - but *not* kibitzing preview page, for instance) into an input text-area on my site and clicking a button, my script will try to "undo" most of the changes that are made to a post by the post-script. specifically

1) diagrams are remade to show its fen on the right, and if such posts are copied and pasted, only the fen will show up in your text input window

2) chess notation, like ♔xg2 or , is turned into postable notation again (otherwise the copied graphics simply disappear)

3) links are turned into normal text again, fully expanded (not the truncated variation with ... at the end)

4) the kind of links that were "user specific" due to ignore lists are turned into ones that work for everyone, to the extent that's possible (same limitations as with the link converter i made, see my profile for details)

5) all posts on <any> page that is "unparsed" this way are printed with a <universally valid> link at the top of each post, so that if you want to refer anyone to a specific post, you can simply copy that link and it will work, regardless of anyone's ignore lists. note that this method will work for all pages, also the pages where my simple link converter does *not* work.

i.e. if you have posted something that you want to edit (=delete/repost), then just copy the source for the page where your post is into my script, unparse it and copy the post of interest.

a major <disclaimer> for all of the above: i've done some testing, but i would be surprised if there aren't cases i haven't considered. after all the business of heuristically unparsing stuff is just that, heuristic, and i've only done a quick, regexp-based parsing of the pages' html without giving it too much thought.

please try it out if you feel like being a beta-tester; feedback can be posted in my player page. hopefully will render the need for this hack void in the future, but at least it's a proof of concept prototype.

the totally unflashy input-page where the page source can be posted is here:

to get the page source of a page (like this one) various browsers have similar methods:

a) firefox: right-click in the background, choose "view page source"

b) ie: right-click, choose "view source"

c) chrome: same as the above - but i ran into this awesome tutorial for chrome users: :o)

anyway, just mark and copy everything in the html-viewer and post it into the text-area on

thanks for trying it out!

Premium Chessgames Member
  hms123: <frogbert>. I will give it a whirl. Thanks for pulling it together.
Premium Chessgames Member
  hms123: <frogbert> I just gave it a quick try. It seems to work well once I figured out what I was doing. I will continue my explorations later. Thanks again.
Feb-24-12  frogbert: hms, if there's anything that's unclear, please don't hesitate to ask. if the tool can be useful to you, i'm happy. :o)
Feb-24-12  frogbert: <my script will try to "undo" most of the changes that are made to a post by the post-script.>

this was probably a bit unclear: what happens is that a new temporary page is created ("on my site") which contains all the posts of the original page, with the significant difference that afterwards the posts essentially look like how they were first input(*) by the kibitzer.

from this new page with "raw/unparsed" comments one copies the post of interest - typically the one you just posted - into a kibitz box on and makes the intended changes. of course one can copy (parts of) the contents of somebody else's posts too, which can be useful to reuse diagrams, etc.

i probably make it sound more complicated than it is; recreating a post only takes 10-15 seconds when you get the hang of it.


(*) with the exception of the chess diagrams, obviously. i kept those to make it clearer which position a given fen is for. when copying a post with diagrams into a "comment/kibitz input-window", only the fen will be pasted, though.

Premium Chessgames Member
  Golden Executive: <frogbert> Worked perfect for me.It is a very useful feature. I am using Windows 7 with Internet Explorer 9
Feb-24-12  LIFE Master AJ: 10:18 AM / Friday; Feb. 24th, 2012.

I have repeatedly gotten the little picture of the man working at a bank of computers and the message that your game DB is <temporarily> off-line.

Are you aware of this? (Cause?)

Premium Chessgames Member
  WannaBe: sporadic, I would see it and then be able to access a certain page, and then I would see the 'Temporary Off line' message again.
Feb-24-12  Blunderdome: I'm also getting this, which I thought was strange as there's no notice on the homepage or here, and it just goes away when I refresh the page.
Feb-24-12  Blunderdome: PS Love the new headers, the brackets looked awful in those bios.
Feb-24-12  Blunderdome: If you wanted to have some fun with it, you could give different colored headers to different players, or maybe just two colors, one for World Champions and one for everybody else.
Premium Chessgames Member
  hms123: I have gotten the "temporary off-line" page sporadically as well. As with <WannaBe>, "refreshing" seems to take care of it.
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