< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 484 OF 734 ·
|Feb-22-12|| ||chessgames.com: Probably not related to JFQs situation, but worth mentioning, is that lately Chrome added this security layer that involves asking the user permission to run "suspicious Java applets", and a chess viewer is certainly unusual enough to warrant suspicion. So people have been telling Chrome to give Chessgames special permission to run its PGN viewer. |
There's a discussion about Chrome and Java here: http://www.java.com/en/download/faq...
|Feb-22-12|| ||Benzol: <But if it's true that the game was neither adjudicated nor forfeited, then I can sneak it into the database with special admin override.>|
<chessgames> Viaud withdrew from the tournament and all his games were cancelled so the admin override is probably the best way to go. The rest of his games from the event are already in the database.
|Feb-22-12|| ||chessgames.com: OK, great: L Watzl vs A Viaud, 1950|
|Feb-22-12|| ||jessicafischerqueen: <Gentlemen> thanks for that link and the JAVA info- I'm sure you are right about this. Anyways so far so good, no recurrence of the problem.
On more appropriate pages I some time ago mentioned another problem that I think should be addressed: dead or suspect links in the intros to your <History of the World Chess Championship> pages. This is a flagship feature of your website and I think it should be upgraded where appropriate.|
In particular, you rely much too heavily on <Graham Cree's> website.
1. He is no longer running the site- if you click on your hyperlinks you get either a GIGANTIC AOL ONLINE advertisement or the creaky WAYBACK MACHINE.
2. (more importantly) Many of Mr. Cree's historical anecdotes are suspect, some flatly incorrect, and almost all of them are unsourced.
Why not give your most trusted member biographers power to edit these pages, not just the player bios?
They have access to thousands of actual chess history and tournament books, and access to our wider membership who also have tons of these actual books.
Real books with actual sources so at least we can know where the information came from, and can better evaluate historical claims in your intros to this important feature-History of the World Chess Championship
At any rate, thank you again.
|Feb-22-12|| ||jessicafischerqueen: While I'm on the topic-
When you finally do convert the Historical Tournament Games pages to Official CG.com Pages- with crosstable, games listed and kibbutzing feature (a great idea btw)-
I sincerely hope you don't go with this kind of introduction:
Botvinnik-Smyslov World Championship Match (1954)
as opposed to the much, much more substantial kind of introductions written by the actual games collection creators, such as this one, for example- Game Collection: 1940 US Championship
The second is much preferable to the first, for obvious reasons.
I sincerely hope you don't "throw the detailed accurate historical intros out with the bath water" when you make this switch over.
Just the thought of that possibility is giving me hives.
|Feb-22-12|| ||Benzol: From July last year <<chessgames.com: <jessicafischerqueen> Your points are well taken. Don't worry about us throwing out the baby with the bathwater, we know how much work has been done with the Game Collection feature.
<Does this mean that the tournament collections that exist at present will become redundant?> They may become redundant in the sense that people will be able to go to other pages on the site to get the same information, but understand that these tournament collections are integral to the upcoming plans. In fact, I imagine certain users to be administrators of certain tournaments, in the sense that it will be their game collections that supply us with the tournament information.|
Just for example: Suppose one day we may want to make a page for the St. Louis tournament of 1904. We'll then turn to <crawfb5> and say "Is your Game Collection: St. Louis 1904 complete and accurate?" And he will probably say "Yes!" and then we're cooking with gas. The software will take data out of his collection to use for the new tournament page. Then suppose there is a game from round 9 that was considered lost to history, but he finds it in an old chess magazine. He can submit it, then add it to his collection, and voila, the tournament page is updated.
Only by chopping this project up into bite-sized chunks can we possibly make significant progress. It's going to take a lot of people to make it happen.
Finally, if I haven't emphasized this before, let me say it now: so many projects that we do, notably the History of the World Chess Championship, would never have been possible were it not for the dedication of certain members. With regards to the WCC feature, we are grateful to <suenteus po 147>, <Dillinger>, <nescio>, <Resignation Trap>, <Hesam7>, and others. So many people help with these projects that it is sometimes uncomfortable to list names in fear of forgetting somebody, but please know that we are aware of the enormous help that we receive and are deeply appreciative.>
|Feb-22-12|| ||frogbert: <chessgames.com>
re recreating fen-strings in delete boxes:
<In short, what your asking for could be accommodated but it would require a major revision to our method of posting. Sorry.>
being a computer guy and perl practitioner i have to disagree: what you have stored for a post should be more than enough to "unparse" it back to the naked fen, which is all that would be needed to save people from manually having to do the work. consider this code, which i *assume* is stored, more or less:
hms' suggestion -
<Have the <fen-string> appear in the <delete box> instead of having the <fen-diagram> appear.>
to the best of my understanding this should require <no changes> to what's actually stored in your database, only some minor code fiddling, the amount slightly depending on how your perl code is organized.
also, for a related issue - "broken cg.com links", i.e. internal cg.com links that only works for the poster (or someone with an identical ignore list) due to specific pagenum references - please see my profile page and the simple work-around i created for a sub-set of the problem. i imagine that something similar could've rather easily been made available to a broader audience.
|Feb-22-12|| ||AylerKupp: <jessicafischerqueen> I had a similar problem when using Chrome. Hopefully the following information will help: http://java.com/en/download/faq/chr....|
|Feb-22-12|| ||jessicafischerqueen: <AylerKupp> Much appreciated!|
<Benzol> yes I remember that reply- thanks for reposting it. However, note that the reply says nothing whatsoever about the point I raised today. What will happen to the actual introductions to the collections?
Will they be left intact (a very good idea) or will they be converted into brief, often inaccurate and badly sourced blurbs (a very bad idea)?
The current <History of the World Championship> is in "blurb format" and what's more the blurbs are inadequately sourced, and in some cases feature highly debatable "facts" about each event.
|Feb-22-12|| ||jessicafischerqueen: I'll be more specific. Wikipedia links, whilst handy and generally of strong quality in terms of chess entries, aren't adequate sources in and of themselves for such a important feature as <History of the World Championship> pages.|
Adequate sources are those as close as possible to primary sources.
There exist a golden handful of truly excellent chess history books *and* websites that not only use primary sources but also properly footnote to those sources.
Among the membership at this website, we have access to many of these golden books.
So there really isn't any reason not to have this information employed, and listed, as the basis for the information in the introductions to each of the Matches in the <History of the World Championship> feature.
|Feb-23-12|| ||chessgames.com: Frogbert's idea to <unparse> the FEN is a good idea. It will surely get tricky but it can be done.|
<JFQ> Your points are all perfectly valid, notably this one <Why not give your most trusted member biographers power to edit these pages, not just the player bios?> The History of the World Chess Championship feature was really intended to open up a bunch of fascinating discussion areas, plus the handy cross tables. Our attempt at adding brief introductions to the matches is well placed but admittedly not as scholarly as we would like to see it. The main question is whether to recruit some specific people for the job, or to make it a general access "wiki" akin the biographies.
|Feb-23-12|| ||jessicafischerqueen: <CG> thanks for such a prompt and encouraging response. Really, very encouraging.|
Along the lines of "if it's not broken don't fix it," why not stick with your existing trusted cadre of members who currently enjoy editing privileges on the player biography pages? I can't think of a better crew to update the <History of the World Championship> introductions.
I'm in close contact with a few of them and not only are they excellent- without doubt- recently, some of them have been doing an extraordinary amount of work to update and improve the player bios, particularly those of the more prominent figures in chess history.
This is one of the recent successful updates, a flagship internet chess biography if there ever was one: Alexander Alekhine
|Feb-23-12|| ||chessgames.com: Wow, we hadn't seen the Alekhine biography lately. Quite impressive!|
<subheadings> Incidentally we are working on a tiny tweak to allow for classier looking subheadings in biographies. You can see it in the Alekhine biography now.
The new rule is that if something is enclosed in <pointy brackets> and also at the very start of a paragraph (or on a line all by itself) it assumes that the text is intended to be a heading. At that stage the pointies become invisible and the text turns into dark-brown boldface. You can see this on the Alekhine page right now and a few others we were testing on.
We don't want to force people to change their habits, or to learn anything new at all really, so the idea is is that people can keep using the same conventions they have always used and the output will look a little classier. At least, we hope it looks classier.
On the other hand, some people have grown to love the little pointy brackets and may hate to see them go. So regard this change as both minor and potentially temporary. In any case there's no reason to go changing biographies to accommodate this change.
I'll make an announcement about the <subheadings> feature on the The Biographer Bistro if it seems to work and we decide to keep it. Until then regard it as a beta test experiment.
|Feb-23-12|| ||jessicafischerqueen: I think the subheadings on the <Alekhine> page look great. I bet <twinlark> will be happy to see the page after the tweak. The tweak does make the formatting look classier.|
|Feb-23-12|| ||crawfb5: I also like the subheading tweak, but might I further suggest trying a different font color to make them stand out a bit more from the black text?|
|Feb-23-12|| ||Phony Benoni: Definitely like the subheadings. I think the bold typeface is distinctive enough from the rest of the text, and would prefer it to another color.|
I do not miss the pointy brackets. Not for a moment.
|Feb-23-12|| ||twinlark: Great innovation.|
|Feb-24-12|| ||positionalgenius: Very nice additions <CG>|
|Feb-24-12|| ||frogbert: *unparsing posts* = <making posts> with cg.com-added modifications (like diagrams, chess notation, link-rewriting, etc.) <postable again> with minimal manual work.|
(cf the requests of <hms> and others.)
here goes: i don't know how useful this is, but i whipped together a little prototype that intends to be a smooth work-around until cg.com makes a more proper fix for these convenience issues. <here's how it works>:
by copying the full source code of an existing cg.com page with kibitzing (player pages, game pages, tournament pages, user forums, the kibitizer's cafe, etc - but *not* kibitzing preview page, for instance) into an input text-area on my site and clicking a button, my script will try to "undo" most of the changes that are made to a post by the cg.com post-script. specifically
1) diagrams are remade to show its fen on the right, and if such posts are copied and pasted, only the fen will show up in your text input window
2) chess notation, like xg2 or , is turned into postable notation again (otherwise the copied graphics simply disappear)
3) links are turned into normal text again, fully expanded (not the truncated variation with ... at the end)
4) the kind of links that were "user specific" due to ignore lists are turned into ones that work for everyone, to the extent that's possible (same limitations as with the link converter i made, see my profile for details)
5) all posts on <any> page that is "unparsed" this way are printed with a <universally valid> link at the top of each post, so that if you want to refer anyone to a specific post, you can simply copy that link and it will work, regardless of anyone's ignore lists. note that this method will work for all pages, also the pages where my simple link converter does *not* work.
i.e. if you have posted something that you want to edit (=delete/repost), then just copy the source for the page where your post is into my script, unparse it and copy the post of interest.
a major <disclaimer> for all of the above: i've done some testing, but i would be surprised if there aren't cases i haven't considered. after all the business of heuristically unparsing stuff is just that, heuristic, and i've only done a quick, regexp-based parsing of the pages' html without giving it too much thought.
please try it out if you feel like being a beta-tester; feedback can be posted in my player page. hopefully cg.com will render the need for this hack void in the future, but at least it's a proof of concept prototype.
the totally unflashy input-page where the page source can be posted is here: http://chess.liverating.org/postcon...
to get the page source of a page (like this one) various browsers have similar methods:
a) firefox: right-click in the background, choose "view page source"
b) ie: right-click, choose "view source"
c) chrome: same as the above - but i ran into this awesome tutorial for chrome users: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkWM... :o)
anyway, just mark and copy everything in the html-viewer and post it into the text-area on http://chess.liverating.org/postcon...
thanks for trying it out!
|Feb-24-12|| ||hms123: <frogbert>. I will give it a whirl. Thanks for pulling it together.|
|Feb-24-12|| ||hms123: <frogbert> I just gave it a quick try. It seems to work well once I figured out what I was doing. I will continue my explorations later. Thanks again.|
|Feb-24-12|| ||frogbert: hms, if there's anything that's unclear, please don't hesitate to ask. if the tool can be useful to you, i'm happy. :o)|
|Feb-24-12|| ||frogbert: <my script will try to "undo" most of the changes that are made to a post by the cg.com post-script.>|
this was probably a bit unclear: what happens is that a new temporary page is created ("on my site") which contains all the posts of the original cg.com page, with the significant difference that afterwards the posts essentially look like how they were first input(*) by the kibitzer.
from this new page with "raw/unparsed" comments one copies the post of interest - typically the one you just posted - into a kibitz box on cg.com and makes the intended changes. of course one can copy (parts of) the contents of somebody else's posts too, which can be useful to reuse diagrams, etc.
i probably make it sound more complicated than it is; recreating a post only takes 10-15 seconds when you get the hang of it.
(*) with the exception of the chess diagrams, obviously. i kept those to make it clearer which position a given fen is for. when copying a post with diagrams into a "comment/kibitz input-window", only the fen will be pasted, though.
|Feb-24-12|| ||Golden Executive: <frogbert> Worked perfect for me.It is a very useful feature. I am using Windows 7 with Internet Explorer 9|
|Feb-24-12|| ||LIFE Master AJ: 10:18 AM / Friday; Feb. 24th, 2012.
I have repeatedly gotten the little picture of the man working at a bank of computers and the message that your game DB is <temporarily> off-line.
Are you aware of this? (Cause?)
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