< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 529 OF 601 ·
|May-30-12|| ||GreenLantern: This is not the place to discuss engine weaknesses, but I can't resist.|
<ajax333221> I am not surprised your engines suggest f8Q because engines will go for the highest numerical evaluations, and perpetual checks are difficult to detect. What did surprise me was the differences in how long it took for different engines to evaluate the position correctly.
On an 8-core, Houdini 1.5 found f8R (+10.64) after 4:54 (d=38). Rybka 4.1 gave f8R mate in 19 after 14:20 (d=31). Stockfish 2.2 was the clear winner giving f8R +14.6 at d=29 after only 5 s! (Not only did I clear the hash tables, I shut down Aquarium between runs to ensure each engine was starting analysis from scratch.)
|May-30-12|| ||Alien Math: Without the Endgame Tables, most if not all would suggest the pawn move to Queen and draw~|
Offer suggestion of search for the Nalimov 5 to 7 man end game tables, they provide you with the end game support that the traditional programs would Overlook
|May-30-12|| ||chessgames.com: < ajax333221 > Fascinating endgame discussion but this forum isn't for that kind of support. It's not often when you find a simple position that can fool the best engines. I wish it was a position from actual play; we'd have a beast of a Sunday puzzle there.|
<Danzhou> Thanks for the info, we'll try to get those games up ASAP.
|May-30-12|| ||tpstar: <actual play> That is a sideline from A Ivanov vs A Vitolinsh, 1979 which was POTD on 5/25/12, had Black answered 83. Rg5+! with 83 ... Kxh6 followed by 84. Rg8 Kh7.|
If only there was a chessforum dedicated to endgames ...
|May-30-12|| ||SwitchingQuylthulg: While 1.f8Q indeed draws, 1.f8R isn't the only winning move - in fact this position occurred in H Van Riemsdijk vs Kiril Georgiev, 1990 with the colours reversed...|
click for larger view
...and Georgiev won with 74...Rg7.
If Black's king were further from the pawn then 74...f1R would be the only winning move. At http://timkr.home.xs4all.nl/chess2/... Tim Krabbé gives Badestein - Otto, Wernigerode 1952 where the king is on e6 and only 66...f1R wins, but unfortunately he doesn't seem to have the whole game...
|May-30-12|| ||SwitchingQuylthulg: With some digging I did find two games where only the underpromotion wins :)|
[Event "Bergen op"]
[White "Manne, Per Erik"]
[Black "Valaker, Ole Johan"]
1. d4 d5 2. c4 Nc6 3. cxd5 Qxd5 4. e3 e5 5. Nc3 Bb4 6. Bd2 Bxc3 7. bxc3 Nf6 8. Qb3 Qxb3 9. axb3 Be6 10. b4 Ne4 11. Nf3 exd4 12. exd4 O-O 13. Bd3 Rfe8 14. O-O Bg4 15. Be1 Nd6 16. b5 Ne7 17. c4 Bf5 18. Bxf5 Nexf5 19. Bb4 Nxc4 20. Rfc1 Nb6 21. Rxc7 Nd5 22. Rc5 Nxb4 23. Rxf5 a5 24. bxa6 bxa6 25. g3 Re2 26. Kf1 Rb2 27. Re5 Rb3 28. Ke2 f6 29. Re4 Rc8 30. Ne1 Kf7 31. Re3 Rb2+ 32. Kf1 Rd8 33. Re4 Rd5 34. Ra4 a5 35. Nf3 Rf5 36. Re3 g5 37. g4 Rd5 38. Rea3 Nc6 39. Ra2 Rb4 40. Ke2 Nxd4+ 41. Nxd4 Rdxd4 42. Rxa5 Rxg4 43. R5a3 Kg6 44. Rg3 Rh4 45. h3 Rhf4 46. Kf1 Rb5 47. Kg2 Rbf5 48. Rb3 h6 49. Rba3 Rb5 50. Rf3 Rxf3 51. Kxf3 Rb3+ 52. Kg2 f5 53. Ra6+ Kh5 54. Rf6 Rb5 55. Kg3 Ra5 56. Rf8 f4+ 57. Kg2 Kh4 58. Rf6 h5 59. Rf7 Ra3 60. Rf8 Rxh3 61. f3 Rg3+ 62. Kf2 Kh3 63. Rf5 Rg2+ 64. Kf1 h4 65. Ra5 g4 66. fxg4 Rb2 67. Ra3+ Kxg4 68. Kg1 Rb1+ 69. Kh2 Re1 70. Kg2 Re2+ 71. Kg1 h3 72. Rb3 Rg2+ 73. Kh1 Re2 74. Kg1 Re3
75. Rb2 Kf3 76. Rf2+ Ke4 77. Ra2 Rg3+ 78. Kh1 Rd3 79. Kh2 Ke3 80. Kxh3 Rd2
81. Ra3+ Rd3 82. Ra2 Kf3 83. Rb2 Re3 84. Ra2 Rb3 85. Rc2 Ke3 86. Ra2 Rd3 87. Rb2 Rd8 88. Rb3+ Rd3 89. Rb2 Rd2 90. Rb3+ Ke4 91. Rb4+ Rd4 92. Rb2 Rd3+ 93. Kg2 Ke3 94. Rb8 Rd2+ 95. Kf1 Rd1+ 96. Kg2 f3+ 97. Kg3 Rg1+ 98. Kh2 f2 99. Re8+ Kd4 100. Rd8+ Ke5 101. Re8+ Kd6 102. Rf8 f1=Q 103. Rd8+ Kc5 104.
Rc8+ Kd4 105. Rd8+ Ke5 106. Re8+ Kf6 107. Rf8+ Kg7 108. Rg8+ Kf6 109. Rf8+
Ke5 110. Re8+ Kd4 111. Rd8+ Ke3 112. Re8+ Kd2 113. Rd8+ Ke1 114. Re8+ 1/2-1/2
click for larger view
<102...f1Q??> was played here :)
Here, on the other hand, Black found the win:
[Event "Kiev Independence Cup-B 6th"]
[White "Moroz, Yuri"]
[Black "Kachan, Vladislav"]
1. c4 e6 2. Nc3 d5 3. cxd5 exd5 4. d4 Nf6 5. Nf3 c6 6. e3 Bd6 7. Qc2 O-O 8. h3 Qe7 9. Bd3 Nbd7 10. O-O Re8 11. b3 h6 12. Bb2 Ne4 13. Bxe4 dxe4 14. Nd2 Nf6 15. f3 Bf5 16. fxe4 Bxe4 17. Ndxe4 Nxe4 18. Nxe4 Qxe4 19. Qxe4 Rxe4 20. Rf3 Bb4 21. Rd1 Rae8 22. Kf2 f6 23. Rd3 Ba5 24. Ba3 Rd8 25. Rf5 Bc7 26. Rc3 Bb6 27. Bc5 Bxc5 28. Rfxc5 Kf7 29. Kf3 Rde8 30. d5 cxd5 31. Rxd5 b6 32. Rcd3 R4e7 33. R3d4 Rxe3+ 34. Kf4 Re2 35. Rd7+ R8e7 36. Rxe7+ Kxe7 37. Ra4 Rxg2 38. Rxa7+ Kf8 39. Rb7 Rxa2 40. Rxb6 Kf7 41. Rb7+ Kg6 42. b4 h5 43. b5 Ra4+ 44. Kf3 Kh6 45. b6 Rb4 46. Rb8 Kg5 47. b7 Kh4 48. Kg2 Rb2+ 49. Kf3 Rb5 50. Kg2 Rb3 51. Kf2 Kxh3 52. Rh8 Rxb7 53. Rxh5+ Kg4 54. Rd5 f5 55. Rd6 g5 56. Rd2 f4 57. Rc2 Rh7 58. Kg1 Kg3 59. Rg2+ Kf3 60. Rxg5 Ra7 61. Rb5 Ra1+ 62. Kh2 Re1 63. Rb3+ Kf2 64. Rb4 f3 65. Rf4 Re8 66. Kh3 Ke3 67. Rf7 f2 68. Kg2 Rg8+ 69. Kh2 Rg1 70. Re7+ Kd4 71. Rd7+ Kc5 72. Rc7+ Kb6 73. Rf7 f1=R 74. Re7 Rg6 75. Re3 Rf5 76. Rh3 Rf7 77. Kh1 Rfg7 0-1
click for larger view
|May-30-12|| ||chessgames.com: Switching, amazing research. Thanks.|
|May-30-12|| ||Eyal: <CG> The score of the third tiebreak game of the WC (Gelfand vs Anand, 2012) is wrong. Starting from Black's 51st move, it should go: <51...Kf5 52.c6 Ke6 53.h4 Kd6 54.Rc8 Ra3 55.Kg2 Re3 56.Kh2 Ra3 57.Kg2 Re3 58.h5 Re5 59.h6 Rh5 60.Rh8 Kxc6 61.Rh7 Kd6 62.Kg3 Ke6 63.Kg4 Rh1>. |
There's actually quite a bit of confusion about that in different sites, and even the official site has it wrong at the moment, but TWIC got it right. I've confirmed that by looking at the video broadcast: http://moscow2012.fide.com/en/vid-a..., from about 15:31:10 to 15:34:30.
Btw, all the tiebreak games are also mistakenly tagged as classical instead of rapid.
|May-30-12|| ||chessgames.com: Thanks Eyal. People are downloading the PGN from us so it's best we get these things right ASAP. |
BTW, if you use the error-correction system the CG Librarian is on the lookout for Anand-Gelfand corrections.
|May-31-12|| ||chessgames.com: <REQUEST>
At this stage we are contemplating what kind of article we should give the WCC match at our page Anand-Gelfand World Chess Championship (2012). What exists there now is sufficient, dry and factual. However we like to put slightly more colorful journalism for our feature of History of the World Chess Championship.
A few years ago Daniel Freeman took up his hand at journalism and wrote the article for the Anand-Topalov WCC, but unfortunately it received harshly critical reviews. (The one you see there now is a replacement.) Fair enough: Daniel's never claimed to be an author.
With that in mind,just like in 2010 we now are soliciting volunteers to write articles or even mere paragraphs that summarize concisely the events before and during the 2012 WCC. The article should be short (see our WCC feature for some idea of article length) and should cite sources where needed.
Please note: You won't get credit (at least not formally), you won't get paid, and we reserve the right to chop up your work as we see fit. On the bright side, you can help inform chess fans for generations to come. Email email@example.com
|May-31-12|| ||Stonehenge: < the CG Librarian is on the lookout for Anand-Gelfand corrections.>|
No offence meant, but she should also be on the lookout for the CG Librarian chessforum.
|May-31-12|| ||chessgames.com: No offense taken and I pointed that out to her.
The backlog of error corrections is really dwindling--the day is in sight when we'll actually be fully caught-up. I'll let her give a fuller report.
|May-31-12|| ||WinKing: I have a question about the 'sticky' in the thematic Team Challenge game. Is the 'sticky' separate for both teams? In other words if analysis is posted there can both teams see it?|
|Jun-01-12|| ||chessgames.com: Oh no, of course not! Team White has their private sticky, Team Black has their own. It's as confidential as the discussion.|
|Jun-01-12|| ||WinKing: Ok thanks chessgames for the quick response. I thought so but figured it better to 'never assume anything'.|
|Jun-01-12|| ||Shams: <cg> Gents, if I may-- any updates on when we can hope for historical tournament pages?|
|Jun-01-12|| ||DrNyet: Messages are assigned numbers. As far as I can see, you can't obtain the number from the message itself, but if you identify a post in a search or in the list of a player's posts on his profile page, the link includes that number. This is used by Chessgames and others to quote a post and link to the original posting.|
Suggestion: If the message/reply number were available in the post itself (perhaps by hovering the mouse over the date of the post) it would be easier to link to a particular message when one posts.
It could also be used to fairly easily make oneself a bookmark to note where he left off reading a thread of particular interest. (Of course a less precise and more cumbersome bookmarking method is available now -- to note the poster and date and perhaps key words.)
|Jun-01-12|| ||hoodrobin: <CG> In the opening Explorer games <1475-2022> is declared. Congrats!|
|Jun-01-12|| ||Phony Benoni: <hoodrobin> That's due to this game from a 2002 tournament being misdated as 2022:|
J Fraser-Mitchell vs W Purkiss, 2022
Since it is not a correspondence game, I have Notified the Librarian. Yes, I'm a spoilsport.
|Jun-01-12|| ||hoodrobin: <WinKing> Please post your analyses in our (White) Team Kibitzer Corner or in my forum. I'll become famous among my (White) Teammates!|
|Jun-01-12|| ||Benzol: <Shams> <<cg> Gents, if I may-- any updates on when we can hope for historical tournament pages?>|
Can I second this?
|Jun-01-12|| ||I play the Fred: Can I second <Shams> and <Benzol>?|
|Jun-02-12|| ||Shams: <IPtF> Unless you can eat more than one egg on an empty stomach, I'm afraid you must third.|
|Jun-02-12|| ||Stonehenge: <CG> Evening chaps. Any chance of uploading the games that are in the queue? Tia :)|
|Jun-03-12|| ||Phony Benoni: <Stonehenge> Looks like quite a few games have become unqueued. At least, I've noticed many of my own submissions.|
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