< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 1 OF 8 ·
|Dec-19-07|| ||dzechiel: Allow me to be the first to welcome you to CG. Can you post the game you played against Fullbrook described above? Be sure to put in at least one diagram.|
|Dec-20-07|| ||johnlspouge: Thanks for the welcome, David. I will try to reconstruct the game from memory and will let you know if I succeed.|
|Dec-23-07|| ||scholes: As for chess software you can try
Its a free chess software which can handle pgn ,variations etc.
And you can get a free rybka 1.0 from rybka's homepage which can you find from google . Its the strongest free engine here.Its strength is comaparable to most of other top commercial engine.
If you want to avoid all the hassle , you can buy a commercial package from fritz or rybka which also contains their latest engines.
But most of top free engines are now stronger than top human in tactics. So a free chess software and a free engine is quite enough for chess analysis.You can get a idea how strong they are from this list
|Dec-23-07|| ||johnlspouge: <scholes: As for chess software> Many thanks. I will look at the sources you suggest...why should kids get all the presents?|
|Dec-23-07|| ||amuralid: Hi John, Welcome to chessgames. I live in the DC area too. I do not know if you play live games. Please visit http://www.chessctr.org/
They are pretty good with organizing quads. I have played twice over there and they do a great job!|
|Dec-31-07|| ||johnlspouge: I found that I could analyze quite nicely with free software, as follows.|
The pros and cons of various chess programs can be found at
There someone recommended Toga II.
In addition, <scholes>'s suggestion below:
rates Glaurung (#1, ELO 2939, Mac), Rybka (#2, ELO 2921, Linux), and Toga II (#3, ELO 2896, PC). For comparison, Kasparov's highest rating in the chessgames database is 2851. Because I am on Vista, I downloaded Toga II 1.3.1 by clicking on the corresponding link at
I unzipped the *.rar file with rarzilla freeware at
to create a directory "Toga131\Distribute 1.3.1\Compiles" with three executables, including "TogaII131(DM1-Compile).exe".
The "downloads" link on the left at
provides free the Arena chess GUI (graphical user interface). There seems to be no official English help, and unfortunately, the English.hlp file from
does not work with Vista.
The Arena GUI has a menu item "Engines" and by selecting "Install Engine" and then clicking on the "TogaII131(DM1-Compile).exe" file, I was able to set up chess analysis. Many engines run under the Arena GUI.
The lack of explanation for the Arena interface is irritating, but by experimentation, I could get things to work.
<If anyone finds a good explanation of the Arena interface, please post the links here.>
Computer analysis (e.g., <patzer2>'s posts) is essential to understanding the chess games CG presents. Human analysis (including mine) is just noise by comparison, unless it displays the human thought processes in chessplaying (e.g., <dzechiel>'s posts).
|Jan-13-08|| ||InspiredByMorphy: Your right this is an incredible game!
N Fullbrook vs K Spraggett, 1988
|Jan-27-08|| ||johnlspouge: Results from the Nalimov endgame tables are available free at the URL |
|Jan-27-08|| ||johnlspouge: Just in case anyone wants to question the competitiveness of freeware, Toga II 1.3.1 ($0, free) took the toughest of puzzle I have seen|
G M Todorovic vs Z Kozul, 1988
and came up with the correct Rh5 Rxd5 maneuver at 17 ply, 1:25:32 time, +6.02 value. Rybka 2.3.2 ($40) still had not got the maneuver after 25 ply 9:46:55 time +3.49 value.
So, which oracle do you want to believe in? ;>)
|Feb-01-08|| ||al wazir: <johnlspouge>: I followed your instructions to download and install Toga II on my (rather slow) XP Pro box. I have some questions, as follows:|
1. How do I set up a position by hand? When I go to Position > Setup a position , I can't seem to make the pieces go where I want. For example, I right-click on the and click on h5, and a black appears there! Nor can I drag the pieces to their appointed posts.
2. More importantly, how do I set up a position expressed in FEN? When I copy a FEN description of a position from a file (specifically,
click for larger view
) and click on Position > Get FEN from clipboard , nothing happens. When I highlight the second icon on the Arena toolbar, I get a popup that says, "Load a game (all supported chess formats)." But how?
|Feb-03-08|| ||johnlspouge: Hi, <al wazir>. Thanks for going through the download procedure. The more of us that have access to chess computation, the better are analyses are going to be.|
I am going to have limited patience for being the "help desk" for Arena, but I can answer some of your questions easily enough. Here are your two questions, with answers. I hope the answers are helpful.
"1. How do I set up a position by hand? When I go to Position > Setup a position , I can't seem to make the pieces go where I want. For example, I right-click on the and click on h5, and a black appears there! Nor can I drag the pieces to their appointed posts."
1. Position > Setup a position
The "Set-up a position" window that appears has 6 icons in its upper left corner, one for each type of chess piece: K, Q, R, B, N, and P. As you set up your position, you need to click on the corresponding icon in the window, e.g., an N. Then, you go to the main Arena board, where a left click on a square places a White N there; a right click, a Black N; and a simultaneous left and right click remove any piece on the square.
Note: you can clear the entire main Arena board by clicking on the Board icon underneath the File menu within the main Arena window.
"2. More importantly, how do I set up a position expressed in FEN? When I copy a FEN description of a position from a file [snip] and click on Position > Get FEN from clipboard , nothing happens. When I highlight the second icon on the Arena toolbar, I get a popup that says, "Load a game (all supported chess formats)." But how?"
2. I have no experience with importing FEN into Arena, but if you happen to discover ways to handle FEN within Arena, let us know by adding to my chessforum. I handle everything within the *.pgn format. Under the gameboards in chessgames.com, e.g., the gameboard on the page
Adorjan vs J D Tisdall, 1981
there is a link "PGN: download", from which you can save the *.pgn file for the game. Arena can import the saved *.pgn file with the menu File > Import. Click on the moves in the Movelist subwindow to the right of the main Arena chessboard to bring up the position corresponding to the move. The Edit button underneath the Movelist subwindow permits you to explore variations manually, while the Options > Variation Board permits you to play out the computer-generated analysis from the Anslyze button under the Movelist subwindow.
|Feb-03-08|| ||johnlspouge: If you want download freeware to draw, e.g., *.jpg pictures of positions to insert into, e.g., *.doc Word documents|
has the DiagTransfer freeware.
|Feb-03-08|| ||Open Defence: If I understand Glaurung is compiled for Mac ? thanks in advance and cheers :)|
|Feb-03-08|| ||al wazir: <johnlspouge>: Thanks. I'm afraid your reply doesn't advance my capabilities very far. As far as setting up a position by hand is concerned, I was probably just doing the right things in the wrong order. As for importing FEN, I have the impression that Arena doesn't support that. (I was hoping you would prove me wrong.)|
Let me explain what I'm trying to accomplish. I want to find a way to send out e-mail messages to members of a school chess club to supplement talks at meetings of the club. The messages will contain data to enable recipients to 1) display positions discussed in the talks; 2) see the successive moves of the analysis of such positions, including variants, e.g., by clicking on '>' as we do using <CG>'s software; and 3) to do this with a minimum of software installation and hassle.
FEN visualization routines are available on the Web, e.g., at http://www.ee.unb.ca/cgi-bin/tervo/... , but these are static. I was hoping that a freeware chess program (such as Toga II) would do the job, but here requirement 3) is the catch. And even if students take the trouble to install it (after which they will have less reason to come to the club!), it seems it won't satisfy requirement 1).
|Feb-03-08|| ||al wazir: <johnlspouge>: I've decided that the Nalimov tablebases (http://www.lokasoft.nl/tbweb.htm) come closest to what I want.|
|Feb-03-08|| ||Red October: <al wazir> are you looking for a program that allows you to set up the position on the board and gives you the FEN string to copy ?|
|Feb-03-08|| ||al wazir: <Red October>: I want the reverse: a program that displays the position when I input the FEN and then allows me to make moves by dragging the pieces. The Nalimov tablebases at http://www.lokasoft.nl/tbweb.htm have both of these features.|
*In addition*, I would like to be able to input a series of moves, starting with that specified position, and be able to see the positions that result, move by move, as I click on a button, the way we do when we click on '>' and '<' at <chessgames.com>.
Ideally, it would be nice if those moves could be expressed is some simple format, e.g., ordinary algebraic notation, rather than the whole elaborate PGN formalism.
BTW, in my previous message I should have said that the combination of Arena + Tioga II doesn't satisfy my requirement 2). Requirement 1) is OK.
|Feb-03-08|| ||johnlspouge: <al wazir>, I have had little need for FEN-oriented freeware, but I am happy to summarize and coordinate any posts you make about freeware here, so thanks for contributing. Good luck!|
|Feb-04-08|| ||dzechiel: Hi, John,
There was a brainstorm about named checkmates a while back:
H Hamdouchi vs M Bezold, 1999
I don't know if we got all of 'em, but we named quite a few.
|Feb-05-08|| ||johnlspouge: <al wazir>, Arena has the capabilities you require. You just have to look through the menus creatively, and with some determination. |
Arena's basic concept is to copy and move things around with the Windows clipboard. To export FEN from Arena, "Position > Copy FEN to Clipboard" translates the position on the Arena game board into a FEN string in the clipboard. If you then open a text file "[filename].fen" with, e.g., Microsoft NotePad, you can paste the FEN into "[filename].fen" as text. You can even do this for several positions, on consecutive lines (terminated by carriage-returns from the "Enter" key). Then, save and close the "[filename].fen" file.
To import FEN into Arena, go to "File > Open". At the bottom of the window that appears, set the "Type of File" to "Forsyth-Edward Notation *.fen". Double-click on, e.g., the "[filename].fen" you created. Arena opens a FEN window to the left of the game board, with the consecutive positions from "[filename].fen" on consecutive lines. To make a position appear on the Arena game board, double-click on the corresponding line of the FEN window.
I have had little need to experiment with variations, but I have seen them within Arena, and I am confident that with a little experimentation, you can develop the specific capabilities you desire.
Bottom line: Arena is an excellent, professionally-written piece of software. Look around and experiment with it: with a little effort, you can probably get it to do what you want.
|Feb-05-08|| ||al wazir: <johnlspouge>: Thanks. I'm afraid the job of Arena Help Desk is yours by default.|
|Feb-06-08|| ||johnlspouge: <al wazir>, we mathematicians are unused to being socially useful. I can adapt.|
There's an old joke about a plane going down. The pilot announces: "We need to reduce the plane's weight, but we have thrown all the luggage off, so someone has to go. The crew has decided to make the choice on the basis of social utility."
And immediately, at the back of the plane, a fight broke out between the mathematician and the disc jockey.
I hope you are not a disc jockey, <al wazir> :)
|Feb-07-08|| ||kellmano: I find that a lot of mathematicians are often proud of their total lack of social utility. I'm pretty sure that there aren't many other academic subjects that adopt this approach.|
One of my favourite stories is that Euclid was teaching in his academy when a student asked what the practical applicaiton of the mathematics they were studying. Euclid, suspecting the student of being too concerned with worldly things, gave him some money and told him never to darken his door again.
I quite like this - doing something for its own sake. I think it's a shame when people say 'you should promote chess in schools to develop reasoning skills'. A true chess player will always find chess methinks.
|Feb-08-08|| ||johnlspouge: <Open Defence>: "If I understand Glaurung is compiled for Mac?"|
That is my understanding. The cross-table for the computers
has links to the Glaurung download URL, so try Glaurung out and post here to let us know what you think of it.
|Feb-09-08|| ||MostlyAverageJoe: <johnlspouge> & <Open Defence>|
For what it is worth, I run a quick experiment today. Glaurung 2.0.1 got trounced by Hiarcs 11.2 in a series of blitz games (5 minutes per side per game). 50 games with opening books, 35 without.
Both run with 4 processors each and identical cache. With opening books, Hiarcs got 60% (about 80 ELO difference), without the books it got 70% (about 160 ELO difference).
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