< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 166 OF 610 ·
|May-24-12|| ||playground player: <YouRang> Have a nice trip! And don't be too hard on those European chess players.|
|May-25-12|| ||cormier: <<<<<<<<<<<<<Gospel> Jn 21:15-19> After Jesus had revealed himself to his disciples and eaten breakfast with them,
he said to Simon Peter,
"Simon, son of John, do you love me more than these?">
Simon Peter answered him, "Yes, Lord, you know that I love you.">
Jesus said to him, "Feed my lambs.">
He then said to Simon Peter a second time,
"Simon, son of John, do you love me?">
Simon Peter answered him, "Yes, Lord, you know that I love you.">
He said to him, "Tend my sheep.">
He said to him the third time,
"Simon, son of John, do you love me?">
Peter was distressed that he had said to him a third time,
"Do you love me?" and he said to him,
"Lord, you know everything; you know that I love you.">
Jesus said to him, "Feed my sheep.>
Amen, amen, I say to you, when you were younger,
you used to dress yourself and go where you wanted;
but when you grow old, you will stretch out your hands,
and someone else will dress you
and lead you where you do not want to go.">
He said this signifying by what kind of death he would glorify God.
And when he had said this, he said to him, "Follow me.">
|May-25-12|| ||playground player: <cormier> I was just going to talk about these verses in John 21: what a coincidence you've posted them.|
I don't know how many times I must have read John 21 before I suddenly, out of the blue, understood what was happening in those verses.
Why did Jesus keep asking Peter the same question, in front of the other disciples? Three times He asked Peter, "Do you love me?" And three times Peter said yes; and each time the question was asked, it perplexed and grieved him more. Why did Jesus do that?
OHHHH.... All of a sudden, I understood.
Because Peter had denied his Lord three times, now the Lord gave Peter the opportunity to affirm Him three times! Christ was healing Peter's conscience. Christ was balancing out the denials and the affirmations, and cleaning the slate.
Why was it so hard to see that?
|May-25-12|| ||cormier: peter 1 ... had to govern(if i can say) with a clean, sound, proper etc .... mind(head) Spirit ..... tks G|
|May-25-12|| ||OhioChessFan: V. 15 So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, [son] of Jonas, agape thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I phileo thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs. |
V. 16 He saith to him again the second time, Simon, [son] of Jonas, agape thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I phileo thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep.
V. 17 He saith unto him the third time, Simon, [son] of Jonas, phileo thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, phileo thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I phileo thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.
|May-25-12|| ||MORPHYEUS: <Why was it so hard to see that?>|
You were asleep during the pastor's sermons?
|May-25-12|| ||cormier: <<<<<<<<People's New Testament>
Mt 7:11> If ye then, being evil.> Men who have the natural affection of parents, even though sinful men, will not do such things.> Whoever believes that the term Father, as applied to God, is more than a figure of speech, must believe in prayer.>|
Give good gifts.> Lu 11:13,> in the parallel passage, says, instead of good gifts, the Holy Spirit, as though this is heaven's greatest blessing.>
|May-25-12|| ||cormier: vatican police made an arest|
|May-26-12|| ||cormier: <<<<<<<<<<<Jn 21:20-25> Peter turned and saw the disciple following whom Jesus loved,
the one who had also reclined upon his chest during the supper
and had said, "Master, who is the one who will betray you?">
When Peter saw him, he said to Jesus, "Lord, what about him?">
Jesus said to him, "What if I want him to remain until I come?>
What concern is it of yours?>
You follow me.">
So the word spread among the brothers that that disciple would not die.>
But Jesus had not told him that he would not die,
just "What if I want him to remain until I come?>
What concern is it of yours?">
It is this disciple who testifies to these things
There are also many other things that Jesus did,
and has written them, and we know that his testimony is true.>
but if these were to be described individually,
I do not think the whole world would contain the books
that would be written.>
|May-26-12|| ||playground player: <cormier> But Peter was NOT "governing" the Church! He was NOT functioning as the first pope. Read Acts! The important decisions were being made by the apostles acting in council in Jerusalem. Peter couldn't even tell Paul what to do. Peter was not even "first among equals." Besides, it's obvious from the foot-washing incident that the Lord never intended for any individual to be supreme within the Church; see also Matthew 20:25-27: <Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them. But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister; And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant>.|
But then all of the churches by now have veered very far off the course Christ set for them--some a great deal farther than others.
<Ohio Chess Fan> I don't understand your post.
|May-26-12|| ||cormier: Thou Art Peter - Catholic Bible
Thou Art Peter. One of the great divides between Catholics and protestants ( those who protest against the Catholic Church) is the role of Peter. Catholics claim ...
Thou Art Peter (Matt. 16:18)
|May-26-12|| ||OhioChessFan: <<Ohio Chess Fan> I don't understand your post.>|
I'll highlight the key words.
<V. 15 So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, [son] of Jonas, <<agape>> thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I <<phileo>> thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs.
V. 16 He saith to him again the second time, Simon, [son] of Jonas, <<agape>> thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I <<phileo>> thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep.
V. 17 He saith unto him the third time, Simon, [son] of Jonas, <<phileo>> thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, <<phileo>> thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I <<phileo>> thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.>
|May-26-12|| ||OhioChessFan: <Thou Art Peter - Catholic Bible
Thou Art Peter. One of the great divides between Catholics and protestants ( those who protest against the Catholic Church) is the role of Peter. Catholics claim ... Thou Art Peter (Matt. 16:18)>|
I think it's self evident that the more far reaching and specific a claim is, the more evidence is necessary for the claim. The very foundation of the RCC is predicated on the Supremacy of Peter and his role as first Pope. The specifics of the papacy are incredible. You can read an encyclopedia's worth of moral/doctrinal discussion of what the papacy is. And for all that, the best you can come up with to prove that far reaching and specific claim is a one time genereal/nonspecific reference? That's not how I see God operating in the Bible.
|May-26-12|| ||MORPHYEUS: Oh oh oh. What? We're seeing a Catholic - Protestant debate.|
It's not gonna be resolved and it will end up with bad feelings. Sorry <cormier>.
I have lots of things to object with the Catholic doctrine, specially the veneration of idols. But i don't like to judge.
My wish is for God to look past those short-comings and save the Catholic people despite those doctrines. We're talking 1 billion people here.
|May-27-12|| ||cormier: <<<<<Jn 7:37-39> On the last and greatest day of the feast,
Jesus stood up and exclaimed,
"Let anyone who thirsts come to me and drink.>
As Scripture says:
Rivers of living water will flow from within him who believes in me.">
He said this in reference to the Spirit
There was, of course, no Spirit yet,
that those who came to believe in him were to receive.>
because Jesus had not yet been glorified.>
|May-27-12|| ||playground player: <Morphyeus> I think you can trust <cormier> and me not to go for each other's throats.|
That being said, sometimes I'm shocked when I see the innovations and accretions piled onto the Christian faith, over the centuries, by the institutional churches. The Catholic Church is not the only denomination that has done this; it's just had the most time to do it. Some of the Protestant churches are doing their best to catch up! You can learn "goddess theology" in any number of Protestant seminaries, these days--that is to say, non-Christian, retro-pagan theology.
<Ohio Chess Fan> I still don't follow you. In context of those verses, what is the difference between <agape> and <phileo>?
|May-27-12|| ||cormier: Man Detained for Illegal Possession of Vatican Documents|
Alleged Thief Is Personal Assistant to the Holy Father
VATICAN CITY, MAY 25, 2012 In a press conference this morning, Jesuit Father Federico Lombardi, director of the Vatican press office, announced that an investigation undertaken by the Gendarmerie, has made it possible to single out a person in possession of private papal documents.
According to sources the person in question is a personal assistant to the Holy Father. The man is now in the custody of the Vatican magistrate for further investigation. On Saturday, May 19, the Holy See announced its readiness to start legal proceedings, following the publication of a series of private documents and letters of the Vatican.
The theft was described by the Vatican not simply as “debatable and objectively defamatory” but as a real and proper “criminal act,” in as much as the Holy Father and many of his collaborators saw “violated their personal rights of reservation and of the freedom of correspondence.”
Given the damages derived from the violation of the privacy and dignity of the Holy Father, as a person and as Supreme Authority of the Church of Rome, the Holy See has manifested the intention to carry out the “appropriate steps” to assure justice for those responsible “for the theft, receiving of stolen goods and the divulging of private news,” requesting if necessary “international collaboration” to this end.
|May-27-12|| ||OhioChessFan: agape love is the deepest love. phileo love is more of a friendship love. Jesus tried twice, then came down to Peter's level.|
|May-28-12|| ||jessicafischerqueen: <YouRang> have a great trip! I envy you. I look forward to reading your posts when you return. Although I rarely respond to them, I read every one.|
|May-28-12|| ||jessicafischerqueen: My dear <Pgp>
Thanks for the heads up- I just took another interesting spin through your website. I was struck by something- your regular posters are bright, witty, warm, and polite.
Hmm... It seems to me that you should take this as evidence that you know how to host a website. So if you ever find yourself second guessing your stewardship of <Pgp forum>, I'm sure whatever rough waters might be here aren't due to your hosting.
I don't agree with all your articles and all the comments of the fine visitors to your website, but what would be the fun of that if I did?
The more I go to your website the more I like it, highly recommended:
And a note to atheists or non-Christians- plenty of interest for you as well here.
I left another post there today, but I confess that may have had less to do with me having something pertinent to contribute, and more to do with wanting to look at my purple crustacean avatar again.
I didn't get where I am today by not enjoying a good avatar.
|May-28-12|| ||cormier: <<<<1 Pt 1:3-9> Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
who in his great mercy gave us a new birth to a living hope
through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading,
kept in heaven for you
who by the power of God are safeguarded through faith,
to a salvation that is ready to be revealed in the final time.>
In this you rejoice, although now for a little while
you may have to suffer through various trials,
so that the genuineness of your faith,
more precious than gold that is perishable even though tested by fire,
may prove to be for praise, glory, and honor
at the revelation of Jesus Christ.>
Although you have not seen him you love him;
even though you do not see him now yet you believe in him,
you rejoice with an indescribable and glorious joy,
as you attain the goal of faith, the salvation of your souls.>
|May-28-12|| ||playground player: <Jessicafischerqueen> You are too kind! Then again, I need all the help I can get.|
<OCF> OK, I've consulted my <Strong's Concordance>, and now I begin to understand what you're getting at. However, I'm not there yet. Why would Jesus ask Peter, "Do you <phileo> [personal, individual, emotional love] me?" after twice asking him "Do you <agape> [defined in Strong's as love that is more a deliberate act of will, and wider in scope, than <phileo>] me?" Something is happening here in the Greek-language original that seems to have been lost in the English translation.
I don't speak or read Greek, and I have no patience with seminary snobs who say, "If you only understood the Greek/Aramaic/Hebrew, you'd see I'm right, and God really does endorse [plug in your favorite far-Left idiotic cause]." Nevertheless, what we have seen in these verses does raise a question.
Presumably the translators understood the difference between <agape> and <phileo>, and yet they translated both as the ordinary English word "love." (By "they" I mean first William Tyndale, and then the scholars on the King James Bible committee 500 years ago.) Given that Biblical Greek is the same now as it was 500 years ago, why do you suppose they did that?
I wouldn't be aware of this at all if you hadn't just brought it to my attention, so it's too early for me to have a theory. I need to think it over for a while.
|May-28-12|| ||cormier: <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<Gospel Mk 10:17-27> As Jesus was setting out on a journey, a man ran up, knelt down before him, and asked him,
"Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?"> Jesus answered him, "Why do you call me good?
No one is good but God alone.>
You know the commandments: You shall not kill;
you shall not commit adultery;
you shall not steal;
you shall not bear false witness;
you shall not defraud;
honor your father and your mother.">
He replied and said to him,
"Teacher, all of these I have observed from my youth."> Jesus, looking at him, loved him and said to him,
"You are lacking in one thing.>
Go, sell what you have, and give to the poor
and you will have treasure in heaven; then come, follow me."> At that statement, his face fell,
and he went away sad, for he had many possessions.>
Jesus looked around and said to his disciples,
"How hard it is for those who have wealth
to enter the Kingdom of God!">
The disciples were amazed at his words.>
So Jesus again said to them in reply,
"Children, how hard it is to enter the Kingdom of God!> It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for one who is rich to enter the Kingdom of God."> They were exceedingly astonished and said among themselves, "Then who can be saved?">
Jesus looked at them and said,
"For men it is impossible, but not for God.> All things are possible for God.">
|May-28-12|| ||jessicafischerqueen: <All things are possible for God>|
|May-29-12|| ||cormier: <<<<<<Gospel> Mk 10:28-31> Peter began to say to Jesus,
"We have given up everything and followed you.">
Jesus said, "Amen, I say to you,
there is no one who has given up house or brothers or sisters
or mother or father or children or lands
for my sake and for the sake of the Gospel
who will not receive a hundred times more now in this present age:
houses and brothers and sisters
and mothers and children and lands,
with persecutions, and eternal life in the age to come.>
But many that are first will be last, and the last will be first.">
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