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Jan-01-16  zanzibar: Some questions about Max Lange:

Max Lange (kibitz #42)

Jan-02-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  Tabanus: I felt it necessary to reformulate the introduction of the 2nd American Chess Congress (1871) a little, in light of the new (to me) information found in contemporary newspapers (Cleveland Leader + Plain Dealer). More can be done with it, but not by me now. Please check for errors! And I'll make changes.
Jan-04-16  ljfyffe: <Zed>So Nderim Saraci is from Kosovo which was under the UN flag until it became independent from Serbia; I believe we speculated that civil unrest there may have been why he played under the flag that he did.
Jan-04-16  ljfyffe: In other words, <Tabanus> was correct as to his nationality.
Jan-04-16  zanzibar: <Lj> I need a little context for that statement.

Well, I can try to dig it out, but it being "fresh on your plate" - you might include a ref link to exactly where/when I said something bearing on a new take on an old discussion.

It would be helpful, and much easier from your end.

Same for <Tab>'s involvement.

Jan-04-16  zanzibar: I want to reopen an old issue here - actually several, but let's start with a simple one:

<When is <CG> going to allow searching on Site/Event tags>?

Specifically, I'm interested in <US-ch (Long Beach, 1993)>, and would like to see how complete <CG>'s coverage of the event is.

Given that it's not in the TI, how can I easily find the games <CG> has belonging to the tournament?

Shouldn't we biographers advocate for this simple and quite common search feature?

That is, common in almost all other chess DB's.

I think it long overdue myself...

Jan-04-16  ljfyffe: <zed>Just saying it now appears the matter seems to be officially cleared up at Saraci's site.....I forgot that remembering is more difficult as your mind ages..., ie, not being made of steel like my youthful memory machine(lol)...Tab mentioned some time ago, likely from Kosovo, I believe.
Jan-04-16  zanzibar: <Lj> still waiting for the refs...

But one nice thing about being old and hard of hearing... lots of issues either get forgotten or fixed before you're even aware of 'em.

But I'm a little confused, I thought I was the young whippersnapper, and you the old and wizened one.

Jan-05-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  Tabanus: Saraci? Can't say I remember him.

Every single body, esp. <tt> and <z>, please check the crosstable at Baden-Baden (1870), is it OK now? Also please suggest other changes, incl. to the game scores, and I'll try to do something about it.

Jan-05-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  Tabanus: Especially I'd like to know what separeted no. 2, 3 and 4.

They have all 12 points now, but there is a post commenting on a wrong game result. Which game? Are there other wrong game results? Etc., etc.

Jan-05-16  thomastonk: <Tabanus> From my memory: Stern lost all games; the draw and the win were firstly lost on time, and then continued and completely published; but they counted as losses; all the details should be already there in the conversation with <z>.

From my private notes: I see that I begun to check all the game scores chronologically and that I stopped after 22 games. I didn't use Haas' book, only the primary sources. This resultet in two correction slips. I skipped games with known problems.

Jan-05-16  ljfyffe: <zed><A little confused>Another sign you're getting older, I'm afraid.

<tab>Way back, there was an inquiry why Saraci was playing under the Turkish flag; Saraci had no site then where now he's even displaying the Kosovo flag on his T-shirt, I believe.

Jan-05-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  Tabanus: <tt> Thanks. I'll have a look later, and try to have CG score 0 for Stern's games. That should give Steinitz clear 2nd, with Neumann and Blackburne on shared 3rd.

<ljfyffe> I vaguely remember something about that, but it's gone now.

Jan-05-16  thomastonk: <Tabanus: and try to have CG score 0 for Stern's games.> I suggest to do a little bit more: in A Stern vs J Minckwitz, 1870, Stern overstepped the time limit at his 20th move; the reason for the loss and the remaining moves should be a comment. A similar case is A Stern vs Steinitz, 1870, where Stern overstepped the time limit with his 38th move.

PS: I suspect that there are more wrong games scores.

Jan-05-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  Tabanus: <tt> Both <overstepped the time limit at his 20th move> and <overstepped the time limit with his 38th move> is now (hopefully adequately) noted in the kibitzing to the two games.

<PS: I suspect that there are more wrong games scores.> Me too, but my German sources are very limited. We should try to get it right both in the games and the crosstable.

Jan-05-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  Tabanus: <the reason for the loss and the remaining moves should be a comment.> Ah yes. CG should delete all moves after 19...f6, and indicate somehow on the game score "lost on time". But this is not my strongest force, and everyone can send a correction slip.
Jan-05-16  thomastonk: <Tabanus> Please look what they did in Steinitz vs Blackburne, 1870 (based on a correction slip of mine). I think that's fine.
Jan-05-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  Tabanus: <tt> Ok that looks good. But I will not send for all pre-1900 games :)
Jan-05-16  zanzibar: <Tab> I'll try to look at Baden-Baden tonight.

* * * * *

As for Steinitz vs Blackburne, 1870

I have a few comments -

1) The annotation/analysis is missing context - who is the annotator, is it from a historical source, and why is it there. For example, without playing it over, inspection alone doesn't even say who's better.

2) I think a line branching off at move 28 should be given as a playable subvariation or a comment at move 28, not at the end of the game.

3) Is the addition of such annotation recorded in a <CG> log available to the general public?

4) Is there an option to strip out variations/comments when downloading a <CG> game?

Jan-05-16  zanzibar: When are we going to be able to do searches on the material here:

Editor Notes

Or did I miss it? Can we already do searching on Editor Notes?

Jan-05-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  Tabanus: <z> Great. And sorry if I snap at you sometimes, I now realize that much of your work ends up in your own website instead of here. Which I guess should be allowed.

CG has already made changes to A Stern vs J Minckwitz, 1870 and A Stern vs Steinitz, 1870! They should perhaps have added "Time" to make it clearer that White lost on time?

Jan-05-16  thomastonk: Steinitz vs Blackburne, 1870

These are the editor notes: <The moves 28-36 in the original PGN are an analysis in comment e) of 'Neue Berliner Schachzeitung'(1870) page 245-246. Also see 'Deutsche Schachzeitung' 1870, page 347 & 'Westminster Papers' 1st August 1870, page 58.>

I assume this is only <a part> of my text in the correction slip, since the correct moves are missing. I remember that I observed more than one case, where only a part of my text appeared in the editor notes, and possible readers would be confused.

<z: Your 2)> Thanks! I missed this.

Jan-05-16  zanzibar: OK, I see what's going on in that game now, thx <thomas>.

I also see how to get the Editor Notes finally.

Scroll down far enough to find a link on the game page, just above the collection links. That is, if one is one.

I think the Notes link should be migrated to the top of the game page (and made less conspicuous perhaps).

Jan-06-16  zanzibar: <<z> Great. And sorry if I snap at you sometimes, I now realize that much of your work ends up in your own website instead of here. Which I guess should be allowed.>

I usually try to put all of the details on my blog, and leave a pointer here. The original purpose of the blog was to allow proper formatting and display of material.

(Without even a <pre></pre> format we can't even properly align tables on these forums, let alone xtabs)

At this point no apologies are needed. I think I give as good as I get. But that might not be the case for all biographers, as I'm sure you're aware.

* * * * *

As for the Baden-Baden write up, there are a couple items I'd like added.

1) The time controls - all tournaments should mention these explicitly, or note that no time controls were used.

2) The arbiters. Not so important, but nice to have.

3) Some mention of outbreak of war should be made, at least in passing, even if we refer the reader to van Reek's site for further details.

4) For instance, weren't Stern's forfeits due to his call to service? That should be mentioned.

5) I personally were prefer Minckwitz vs. von Minckwitz in the xtab, as per DSZ.

6) Neumann//Blackburne should be 1/2 1 and not 1 1/2.

Similarly Neumann//Paulsen also looks reversed.

I think I'll stop here, and ask for an assessment. I assume the xtab should match DSZ, and that they should list the game results in order played.

What's the story then?

Jan-06-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  Tabanus: <z> I reversed the two in no. 6)

<What's the story then?> I feel a little helpless with the old German and Russian events. Plus my time is limited. If you or <tt> or someone could write if only 2 or 3 sentences for the intro (preferably with refs) covering the basics (time control, playing time, arbiters, venue, etc.) I'll be happy to add it.

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