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Kibitzer's Cafe
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 220 OF 551 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Apr-19-18  zanzibar: File under: Russian Collusion

https://zanchess.wordpress.com/2018...

Or should that be Russian Delusion?!

Anyways, I haven't seen any other schematic treatment of this topic, so however bad this one is, it's a contender for best-in-show...

Apr-19-18  Paint My Dragon: "Leo Forgacs" by W.A. Foldeak, The Chess Player, 1999, p.3

Oddly, Golombek prefers to stick with Fleischmann as his encyclopedic entry and that is faithfully replicated by Divinsky of course, but 'Forgacs' seems the more logical choice to me.

Adorján (né Jocha), and Foldeak himself (né Von Khloyber) also played the 'Magyarising your name' game.

Apr-19-18  Paint My Dragon: It should be noted that Hooper & Whyld and Di Felice also prefer <Fleischmann>. Nevertheless, I'd find it difficult to argue with a Hungarian writer who is almost a contemporary of the subject.
Apr-19-18  Paint My Dragon: And not to ignore the fact that the Hungarian Wikipedia upholds the choice of the English lang. wiki. - <Leo Forgacs>
Apr-19-18  zanzibar: <<PmD> Oddly, Golombek prefers to stick with Fleischmann as his encyclopedic entry and that is faithfully replicated by Divinsky of course, but 'Forgacs' seems the more logical choice to me.>

I checked Golombek's entry... first of all, he uses the following format for the name:

<FLEISCHMANN [Forgács], Leo>

which at least makes a distinction between a middle-name and an alternative name.

But Golombek is responsible for what I think is an errant claim:

<He always played in tournaments under the name of Fleischmann ...>

Not true, as this page of a contemporaneous BCM report makes clear:

https://books.google.com/books?id=i...

(A surprising oversight by Golombek).

Apr-19-18  zanzibar: I generally try to follow the wishes of the players themselves.

But when constrained to using just one name, it's also justified to use the first name form used by the player, and if possible, also indicating the alternate name by bracketed or parenthesized name alternative.

In my case, since I first encountered him in Ostend (1906), it was easy to prioritize the Forgacs choice.

Apr-19-18  zanzibar: The German wiki page also uses Forgacs...

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le%C3...

.

Apr-21-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  chessgames.com: If you want to help improve the database and sate somebody's curiosity at the same time, I just received this email:

<I'm trying to find out more about my brother's chess winning tournament.

His name is John C. Barnes. Family lore indicates that he won a Louisiana state championship for being the youngest winner in the 1950s when he was about 23. (He is now deceased.)

How can I find out more?

Nancy Barnes Shaw>

Anybody know anything?

Apr-21-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  Stonehenge: No John C Barnes here:

http://www.louisianachess.org/state...

Apr-21-18  zanzibar: Amazing high-quality photograph from Paris (1900) of Schlechter, de Riviere, Bartmann, Brody:

https://www.gettyimages.com/license...

It's a Getty Image, over 110 years old. Is this in PD for US?

BTW- were they sharing a Chinese lunch?! It almost looks like Schlechter and Brody have chopstick(s). No pieces on the board - maybe a blindfold game?

Apr-21-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  Tabanus: Barnes: I tried only the Gen-bank newspapers. He figures as a chess player in State Times Advocate (STA) in 1953, 1954 and 1955.

1953 Louisiana championship: <The youngest player here is 20-year-old John Barnes of New Orleans> (STA 5 Sep 1953). Edward Borsodi and Fred Cummimgs won with 5/6, and Barnes shared 8th place with 3.5/6 (STA 8 Sep 1953)

1954: "Alfred B. Wills, winner of the New Orleans City Chess Championship tournament, and <John Barnes, winner of the reserve tournament>, were presented trophies during a meeting of the New Orleans Chess Club Friday night at the Young Men's Christian Association." (Times-Picayune, 27 March 1954, page 18). With a photo of Wills, David A. Walsdorf Jr. (president of the club), and John Barnes in shirt and tie holding a pocal.

1954 Louisiana championship: won by Fred Cummings of New Orleans (Morning Advocate 6 Sep 1955 p. 13-B) (perhaps referring to 1953)

1955 Louisiana championship: won by A. L. McCauley of New Orleans. 2, Newton Grant; 3, James Noel; <4, John Barnes of New Orleans> (Morning Advocate 6 Sep 1955 p. 13-B)

Apr-21-18  gabriel1925: I have tried before but they don't seem to hold.

I like reading all the erudites comments but I have nothing to add.

But I have a question. Does CG has a problem with Miami? There are very few games of Miami players, and those are mostly loses.

I would not like to believe that it is an Artidiello legacy, a guy I remember as a nice guy, who was Cuban had a very Galician name and looked Russian, we played several games with varied results, that must have been around the eighties, I remember my plus, so we must have been equal. That is following the only absolute law in chess: "All chess players believe they play better than they do".

I remember a couple of anecdotes about chess players strong and weak but I type slowly I'll try in their places

Apr-21-18  crawfb5: <chessgames.com: If you want to help improve the database and sate somebody's curiosity at the same time, I just received this email:

<I'm trying to find out more about my brother's chess winning tournament.

His name is John C. Barnes. Family lore indicates that he won a Louisiana state championship for being the youngest winner in the 1950s when he was about 23. (He is now deceased.)

How can I find out more?

Nancy Barnes Shaw>

Anybody know anything?>

I have the USCF newsletters from the 1950s on disc. The two Barnes games in the database are from the 1954 US Open in New Orleans. Barnes finshed 50-64th in a field of 109 players with a 6-6 score. This seemed like a good year to start a search.

He won the <Reserve> section of the 1953-4 New Orleans City Championship with a score of 10-1. He did not play in the 1954 Louisiana State Championship.

He was rated 1913 on the 1954 rating list. He was not on the 1959 list.

I haven't checked other years, but I suspect family lore has misremembered a detail or two over the years.

Apr-21-18  zanzibar: I thought <crawfb5> might weigh in on this...

Proquest has a copy of this game:

<Sandrin,A.--Barnes,J. 19# 0-1 (1954 US Open)>

Is that one from the USCF disc?

Apr-21-18  crawfb5: <zanzibar: Proquest has a copy of this game:

<Sandrin,A.--Barnes,J. 19# 0-1 (1954 US Open)>

Is that one from the USCF disc?>

Possibly. <Chess Life> was a newsletter at the time, not a monthly magazine. They would scatter games across issues and there is no yearly index. I sent Phony PDFs of what Open games I could find a few years ago, so he might be able to answer quicker. The Proquest result suggests it might be from a newspaper.

Apr-21-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  Fusilli: Boris Kreiman bio says: "His students include national champions Joel Cholo B Banawa and Jouaquin Banawa."

What is the "national champions" referring to? Those players' bios don't say anything, and a quick search online doesn't turn up anything clear.

Apr-21-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  Phony Benoni: <Zanzibar> Is it this game?

A Sandrin vs J C Barnes, 1954

Apr-21-18  zanzibar: <PB>/<crawfb5> Yup, that's the one - need the Source?
Apr-21-18  zanzibar: Looks like I got the result wrong in my first post, it's 1-0 apparently.
Apr-21-18  zanzibar: Source

<CHESS
Avery, G E
The Hartford Courant (1923-1992);
Jan 30, 1955;
pgD15>

Apr-21-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  Phony Benoni: <Zanzibar> I probably got it from somebody who transcribed Spence's tournament book.

It's interesting to compare the finish of A Sandrin vs J C Barnes, 1954 with this game by Angelo Sandrin's borther, Albert Sandrin, for the 19949 US Open in Omaha:

A Sandrin vs P Le Cornu, 1949

Apr-21-18  zanzibar: Yes, I saw those comments... so lightening does strike twice - just 5 years apart!
Apr-21-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  Fusilli: P.S. to my previous post: if I don't hear any justification for it, I'll edit out the "national champions" bit.
Apr-22-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  Tabanus: On Game Collection: Flohr - Sultan Khan I must ask again, where are the games from? And why is it that the CG editors (incl. three on this page) won't take a stand (YES or NO) or give comments? It's the same handful of editors voting each time, and the rest seem to be ... fill in the word yourself, please. Btw, it has come to a point where I don't expect a single answer to this post either.

Britbase http://www.saund.co.uk/britbase/pgn... has [Source "ChessBase"].

Apr-22-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  Chessical: <Tabanus> All the games in the Game Collection: Flohr - Sultan Khan were already in the Database.

Game 1 - The game score given in "The Guardian", (London), 26th February 1932, p.3. matched the CG score. Also it can be found in "The Observer" (London) 28th February 1932, p.25.

Game 6 - Score given in "The Guardian", (London), 1st March 1932, p.3. also matched the CG score.

I do not as a general rule check the scores of games already in the Database. This is simply a matter of time and proportionality.

I also have increasingly sought out matches where the games already are in the Database due to the time it takes to include new games. I have several collections which have waited months for the record to made complete. I do not blame CG as the Database is a commercial enterprise and if corrupted would entail both a reputational and a financial loss. I would, however, welcome:

1. An accessible live list of those games submitted but awaiting evaluation and incorporation.

2. A system by which selected biographers could volunteer contribute to this process which could include a period of probation and assessment to ensure qulaity and consistency.

As the progenitor of the red "alarm" voting indicator, I too would prefer more CG editors to view, comment and vote. As, I neither know the constraints upon their time or their circumstances, and as their contributions are voluntary, I do not feel it is appropriate to force the issue.

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