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Tal Memorial Tournament

Magnus Carlsen5.5/9(+2 -0 =7)[games]
Fabiano Caruana5/9(+3 -2 =4)[games]
Teimour Radjabov5/9(+2 -1 =6)[games]
Alexander Morozevich4.5/9(+3 -3 =3)[games]
Alexander Grischuk4.5/9(+2 -2 =5)[games]
Vladimir Kramnik4.5/9(+2 -2 =5)[games]
Levon Aronian4.5/9(+2 -2 =5)[games]
Luke McShane4/9(+3 -4 =2)[games]
Hikaru Nakamura4/9(+1 -2 =6)[games]
Evgeny Tomashevsky3.5/9(+1 -3 =5)[games]

 page 2 of 2; games 26-45 of 45  PGN Download
Game  ResultMoves YearEvent/LocaleOpening
26. Morozevich vs Nakamura 0-1472012Tal MemorialD20 Queen's Gambit Accepted
27. Grischuk vs Radjabov ½-½412012Tal MemorialB30 Sicilian
28. Carlsen vs Aronian ½-½602012Tal MemorialC67 Ruy Lopez
29. Caruana vs McShane 1-0672012Tal MemorialA54 Old Indian, Ukrainian Variation, 4.Nf3
30. Kramnik vs Tomashevsky 1-0832012Tal MemorialD45 Queen's Gambit Declined Semi-Slav
31. Radjabov vs Caruana ½-½632012Tal MemorialD85 Grunfeld
32. Nakamura vs Carlsen ½-½432012Tal MemorialE10 Queen's Pawn Game
33. Tomashevsky vs Morozevich 1-0412012Tal MemorialE90 King's Indian
34. Aronian vs Grischuk ½-½282012Tal MemorialE15 Queen's Indian
35. McShane vs Kramnik 1-0942012Tal MemorialC67 Ruy Lopez
36. Grischuk vs Nakamura 1-0352012Tal MemorialB76 Sicilian, Dragon, Yugoslav Attack
37. Radjabov vs Aronian  ½-½452012Tal MemorialA06 Reti Opening
38. Morozevich vs McShane 0-1402012Tal MemorialD15 Queen's Gambit Declined Slav
39. Caruana vs Kramnik 1-0402012Tal MemorialC45 Scotch Game
40. Carlsen vs Tomashevsky ½-½852012Tal MemorialA29 English, Four Knights, Kingside Fianchetto
41. Aronian vs Caruana 1-0542012Tal MemorialD70 Neo-Grunfeld Defense
42. McShane vs Carlsen 0-1402012Tal MemorialC85 Ruy Lopez, Exchange Variation Doubly Deferred (DERLD)
43. Nakamura vs Radjabov ½-½392012Tal MemorialB30 Sicilian
44. Kramnik vs Morozevich ½-½722012Tal MemorialD44 Queen's Gambit Declined Semi-Slav
45. Tomashevsky vs Grischuk  ½-½472012Tal MemorialE81 King's Indian, Samisch
 page 2 of 2; games 26-45 of 45  PGN Download
  REFINE SEARCH:   White wins (1-0) | Black wins (0-1) | Draws (1/2-1/2)  

Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 72 OF 73 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Jun-21-12  twinlark: With this article by Stross being on topic for this off-topic topic: And yes, he is a sceptic.
Jun-21-12  achieve: <Shams> That was just some never-mind-wordplay.

In concreto the goal first is to reverse engineer the Human Brain, over the next 20 years, and in the process Substrate Indepent Mind research by eg Halcyon Molecular is geared towards Life <expansion>, the natural precursor of Life <extension>, and a certain Randal Koene explains this very well, he works for Halcyon, and you can find a clip of his talk at the GF2045 conference website.

The GF2045 conference speakers address and participate in research that is stone-hard reality, little speculation in that regard, and from their website:

<Event speakers were comprised of world leading physicists, biologists, anthropologists, sociologists, psychologists, philosophers as well as specialists in the fields of Big History, robotics, brain-computer interfaces, neurosciences and space technology from Russia, the United States, Canada, the Netherlands and other countries.

The three-day event concluded with the finalization of a resolution that will be submitted to the United Nations demanding the implementation of committees to discuss life extension Avatar projects as a necessary tool in the preservation of humankind, as well as defining ethical parameters for scientists worldwide.>

Defining ethical parameters, indeed.

Jun-21-12  achieve: <[..] to the effect of soon creating an "event horizon" beyond which events are quite inconceivable to mine or any other human brain.>

This is more or less the confirmation as quoted from the TIME article:

<Maybe we'll merge with them to become super-intelligent cyborgs, using computers to extend our intellectual abilities the same way that cars and planes extend our physical abilities. Maybe the artificial intelligences will help us treat the effects of old age and prolong our life spans indefinitely. Maybe we'll scan our consciousnesses into computers and live inside them as software, forever, virtually. Maybe the computers will turn on humanity and annihilate us. The one thing all these theories have in common is <<< the transformation of our species into something that is no longer recognizable as such to humanity circa 2011.>>>

This transformation has a name: the Singularity.


Premium Chessgames Member
  brankat: You guys are still discussing the Tal Memorial? :-)

And a fine event it was!

Jun-21-12  achieve: Immor<Tal>ity, indeed.
Jun-21-12  Reisswolf: All this discussion about luck!

Forget Carlsen. <I> am a very lucky guy. (At least that is what my girlfriend is constantly reminding me of.)

Jun-21-12  achieve: <Forget Carlsen. <I> am a very lucky guy. (At least that is what my girlfriend is <<constantly>> reminding me of.)> Oy...
Jun-21-12  parmetd: You guys are confusing a lack of skill with luck anyways. Two totally separate concepts.

Anyways, it was definitely a nice event.

Jun-21-12  achieve: You can't be serious!

After all the hard work, what is left?

Premium Chessgames Member
  brankat: <You guys are confusing a lack of skill with luck anyways. >

So then it means Carlsen is lacking in the skills department.

Premium Chessgames Member
  brankat: <achieve< <After all the hard work, what is left?>

That's when You finally realize that You're totally dependent on Luck :-)

Jun-21-12  parmetd: No. I did not say *I* was confusing the two concepts. I said others were.
Jun-21-12  Bobwhoosta: <parmetd>

It really depends on how the word "luck" is being used, and the intended meaning of the user. Luck can simply mean "events outside of the control of someone", whereas skill "events inside the control".

I understand you probably don't agree that this is the definition of luck, but it is how people use it, without implying that it is some mysterious force.

In that guise, the lack of skill of someone else is in effect a lucky occurance for me. I had nothing to do with it, although my skill may have placed me in a position to take advantage of it.

Jun-21-12  Appaz: <<Reisswolf> <I> am a very lucky guy. (At least that is what my girlfriend is constantly reminding me of.)>

Tell her that it's pure skill!
...or maybe not.

Jun-22-12  polarmis: Evgeny Atarov wrote reports on the Tal Memorial, with extensive comments by Vlad Tkachiev (usually in italics). They're very, very long (speaking as the translator!), but surely the most interesting account of the event on the web. Links:

Round 1:
Round 2:
Round 3:
Round 4:
Round 5:
Round 6:
Round 7:
Round 8:
Round 9:

Jun-22-12  boz: Great work, Polarmis, thank you. Well worth taking the time to read. That Tkachiev sure doesn't mince words.
Jun-23-12  ajile: < achieve:
"In other words does God exist? Well, I'd say not just yet." - Kurzweil>

Depends on how you define "God". If it's a guy in the sky with a white beard then no. If you define as Infinite Cosmic Awareness possibly yes.

Jun-23-12  Reisswolf: <If you define as Infinite Cosmic Awareness possibly yes.>

Define "infinite cosmic awareness." And please give a falsifiable method of determining that the "awareness" is (a) infinite, and (b) cosmic.

The best scientific knowledge says that the (observable) universe is bounded, so what exactly do you mean by infinity here? Are you just referring to the absence of a topological boundary?

I am always interested to hear precise definitions from people on the "other side."

Jun-23-12  achieve: Or he meant:

Galactical Comic Consciousness ;)

<ajile> I posted the Kurzweil quote in reference to his "prediction" of man, through nanotech, Robotics, being able to create limitlessly, infusing Life/AI intelligence in dead matter, planets in space, which of course can be interpreted in that man has then "become as God."

This statement marks Kurzweil's closing words from the Documentary, 'The Transcendent Man', and atheist RK refers with a slightly naughty and arrogant tone that "by then" we will "finally" see God in action, through Science.

Jun-23-12  ajile: I was talking a bit tongue in cheek since you can't comprehend such things as "God" with the mere human mind. Plus of course you have the problem of even defining terms which might relate to such a discussion.

Suffice to say that an understanding of what "God" might be is probably limited to an actual experience not a mental "thought level" comprehension.

For example you can try to explain to a child what sex is and they may think they understand. But until they are adolescents and actually EXPERIENCE it they don't really comprehend it.

Jun-24-12  achieve: I merely quoted Kurzweil's words and even mentioned his "arrogant" way of saying them. With the rest you are writing I have no beef, nor do I completely agree, but this is irrelevant; I <only> want to let come across what the mindset is of these in many ways rather arrogant - but understandable - remarks among the "transhumanist & Singularity establishment".

After all they hold the by far most expensive keys in scientific research and development today.

The discussion path you have entered may be interesting, though, but my references are to the Time article and those involved in the science and movement.

Jun-24-12  QueentakesKing: What is this two wins the most? Horrible. I can truly say that creative and combative chess are dead. I refer to Tata Steel with the same pattern ---numerous draws---with Anand playing in it! CHESS COMPUTERS HAVE KILLED THE BEAUTY OF CHESS AND THE GAME.
Jun-24-12  achieve: Relax, man - about 50 percent of the games was <decisive>! - this is a huge stat, and testament to real human fighting, and making mistakes, on the board.

OTB tournament chess looks in fine shape.

Jun-24-12  QueentakesKing: <achieve> You say so.
Oct-14-12  Everett: Looking back at this score table, this has got to have been one of the most even fields assembled. +2 for the winner, -2 for the loser over 9 games is quite even.

BTW, lots of decisive games without the football scoring.

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